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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im reading how the court case was to force the Drs to perform the trach.

The baby's parents, Moe Maraachli and Sana Nader, have been asking London doctors to perform a tracheotomy so they can take Joseph home to die. They had done so with their daughter Zina, who died nine years ago from a condition nearly identical to Joseph's.

But LHSC refused to perform the procedure, saying it's invasive and not part of palliative care. The hospital has vigorously defended its decision, saying the judgment was "sound, both medically and ethically."

An independent Ontario tribunal, the Consent and Capacity Board, and a Superior Court judge both sided with LHSC. But the case sparked an outcry from U.S. pro-life and anti-euthanasia groups, who quickly organized to get Joseph into an American hospital.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/baby-joseph-tracheotomy-20110314-170000-065.html

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How do you know he isnt suffering?

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And it was asked for so they could take the child home.

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Do you have any proof he cannot feel?

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Even you admitted in your original post that our insurance companies do the same thing.

But that doesn't "creep" you out?

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As usual, you are trying to play politics about an issue while pretending you are not.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

From what I'm reading on this, Lucy, the parents actually had to go to court to stop the decision to remove life support. Is that how it works, up your way? That would be very different from how we do it here. We get some ugly fights, and ugly cases, but when it comes to pulling the plug, it requires the consent of the next of kin.

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No more than you or anyone does that he does. So how about we leave terms like.."He's suffering" and so on out of the picture.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

This, for instance, is a great example of an argument that would indeed have some heft in support of the idea that special cases could at least partially be made for family in situation where the degree of grief and emotional torment can be said to potentially be higher than normal.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Symptoms and Signs

Patients show no evidence of awareness of self or environment and cannot interact with other people. Purposeful responses to external stimuli are absent, as are language comprehension and expression.

Signs of an intact reticular formation (eg, eye opening) and an intact brain stem (eg, reactive pupils, oculocephalic reflex) are present. Sleep-wake cycles occur but do not necessarily reflect a specific circadian rhythm and are not associated with the environment. More complex brain stem reflexes, including yawning, chewing, swallowing, and, uncommonly, guttural vocalizations, are also present. Arousal and startle reflexes may be preserved; eg, loud sounds or blinking with bright lights may elicit eye opening. Eyes may water and produce tears. Patients may appear to smile or frown. Spontaneous roving eye movements—usually slow, of constant velocity, and without saccadic jerks—may be misinterpreted as volitional tracking and can be misinterpreted by family members as evidence of awareness.

Patients cannot react to visual threat and cannot follow commands. The limbs may move, but the only purposeful motor responses that occur are primitive (eg, grasping an object that contacts the hand). Pain usually elicits a motor response (typically decorticate or decerebrate posturing) but no purposeful avoidance. Patients have fecal and urinary incontinence. Cranial nerve and spinal reflexes are typically preserved.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec16/ch212/ch212b.html

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According to the experts, they can still feel pain.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The heading.. vegetative state... or did you miss that? His is a progressive neurodegenerative disease.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Even you admitted in your original post that our insurance companies do the same thing.

But that doesn't "creep" you out?

Yeah, RML, it does. I said it was shitty. If you were paying attention, you'd know that this is a question of where the final decision lies.

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As usual, you are trying to play politics about an issue while pretending you are not.

It is political, RML. It goes to the basic assumptions of the relationship between the individual and the state. I don't think "Bush sucks" brand water wings are rated to go out that far, though.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

But your real concern is the baby?  Right?