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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 9:43:53 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr
It really makes me curious is this idea that some women seem to have that one will better attract a man if one plays dumb is another example of the USA's complex and often bizarre dating ritual.

Nope. I have, in fact, heard this from Europeans (Brits to be exact). In addition, this is a pretty unusual aberration in the US. Or, at least, like you I'd never actually heard anyone say that they wanted a dumb wife until this thread right here. And, to be fair, this is an internet discussion board and one related to BDSM. I'd avoid drawing too many conclusions about american dating reality from such a source.

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Post #: 101

RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 12:14:24 PM

Arturas

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quote:

If the male is the natural superior to the woman, that would make her his inferior complement.

Edited to clarify: Your statement above reflecting your understanding of the "order of nature" belief system is not one I personally agree with although I admit having been wrong on more than one occasion. Tammystarm is correct in her statement to you. (She is very smart and a natural submissive as well as a natural slave.) My earlier posting reflects the "order of nature". I believe the male's natural role is one of dominance, a dominance not based on superior physical or mental capabilities but instead how he is wired from birth and therefore the female is not his inferior complement but his submissive complement, the ying to his yang. She may even be smarter than he but that does not mean she is not a natural submissive to him.

P.S. I and tam share our home and sometimes the computer. Sometimes we get crossed on collarchat accounts. The earlier reply "she" made was actually me and to fix it I had her post something of her own rather than just let it go that way. Then I went to bed.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 4/1/2011 12:29:26 PM >

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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 12:33:10 PM

ranja

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i just had another thought.... but what was it?

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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 12:42:06 PM

FukinTroll

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~FR

Well shucks! I missed the bonfire... think I can get a recap?

Hmmm... I think I smell saffron.

*goes off to read gold mail*

Slurp~

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Post #: 104

RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 12:47:14 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Edited to clarify: Your statement above reflecting your understanding of the "order of nature" belief system is not one I personally agree with although I admit having been wrong on more than one occasion. Tammystarm is correct in her statement to you. (She is very smart and a natural submissive as well as a natural slave.)

i don't recall distilling my interpretation of natural order or male supremacy for that matter. Nor do i expect agreement on the subject particularly on a thread that's devoted to an entirely different topic. As for the previous post, given the fact the information has been removed it is futile to reference something that no longer exists. In regard to inferiority, in my experience a word often has several interpretations. The submissive is the subordinate in the relationship. She most certainly won't usurp him.

And for the record, i'm not keen on extolling natural dominance or submission. Many of the individuals lauding these attributes generally fall outside of my definition of either concept. Both are rather subjective and largely dependent on the observer's preferences. One parties dominant is another person's cracker jack.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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Post #: 105

RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 1:11:56 PM

DesFIP

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Re Ishtarr's assertion that European men don't do this, I'll disagree. Greeks and Yugoslavians - specifically Croats and Serbs do IME. Not nearly as common in Holland, Belgium and the French part of Switzerland.
I will say I do find this more in Italian Americans than in other ethnic groups, although going by Jersey Shore both sexes have now adopted it.

And lets not get started on South American machismo which values looks only in women and discounts them as resources.

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Post #: 106

RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 1:22:37 PM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Re Ishtarr's assertion that European men don't do this, I'll disagree. Greeks and Yugoslavians - specifically Croats and Serbs do IME. Not nearly as common in Holland, Belgium and the French part of Switzerland.
I will say I do find this more in Italian Americans than in other ethnic groups, although going by Jersey Shore both sexes have now adopted it.

And lets not get started on South American machismo which values looks only in women and discounts them as resources.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never made such assertion...

I said I had never come across it in Europe, wondered if it had to do with the type of social groups I tend to hang out with, and said it made me curious as to whether it's a cultural phenomenon or not.

Jeff's comment that it's not as common in the US as this thread has made it sound made a lot of sense to me, and your assertion that some countries in Europe do display this behavior seems to indicate that it is indeed a cultural thing, like I was wondering all along.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 4/1/2011 1:32:35 PM >

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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 11:05:23 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

And for the record, i'm not keen on extolling natural dominance or submission. Many of the individuals lauding these attributes generally fall outside of my definition of either concept. Both are rather subjective and largely dependent on the observer's preferences. One parties dominant is another person's cracker jack.

Beauty and intelligence... a dangerous combination in the "wrong hands". I could not agree more with your statement. It is subjective to the extreme.

IMO to shy away from someone because they are more intelligent, or less, than you, regardless of your side of the kneel, is short-sighted. Opposites attract every day. I am more intelligent on some areas than the man is... and less so in others. We compliment each other, teach each other, and embrace our differences.

Its my belief.. and only a belief... that a Dominant should choose a submissive that compliments his own intelligence, blending the two to make better the whole. (Not saying that should be the only criteria.)

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/1/2011 11:08:03 PM >

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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 11:32:24 PM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

And lets not get started on South American machismo which values looks only in women and discounts them as resources.

That was never my experience when I lived in South America. On the contrary, I found that the men loved the women for being women - whatever woman they were. I never experienced any of the "this is what beautiful women look like" message that I've been inundated with in the USA and in Asia. Every woman was beautiful and their abilities / skills celebrated - including intelligence.

best,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 4/1/2011 11:39:38 PM >

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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 11:39:58 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Beauty and intelligence... a dangerous combination in the "wrong hands". I could not agree more with your statement. It is subjective to the extreme.

Your comment reminded me of something i heard a couple of years ago that fits in perfectly:

“If you love the body, you must know the bone that ribs and peoples it. Deeper than flesh you feel the beauty that will last forever as simply as stone.” -Unknown

It doesn't matter if we're speaking of physical beauty, intelligence, or another subject. If the individual doesn't value what's in his possession and never goes beyond the shell to understand its core, he will never add to its essence. Subjectivity often applies to the things we see with our eyes, rather than the other senses.

quote:

IMO to shy away from someone because they are more intelligent, or less, than you, regardless of your side of the kneel, is short-sighted. Opposites attract every day. I am more intelligent on some areas than the man is... and less so in others. We compliment each other, teach each other, and embrace our differences.

More can mean a vacancy in the one interpreting the difference. It can make them feel lesser in ways that are uncomfortable. Many people are uninterested in confronting their biases and fears. It is far easier to call it a preference than acknowledge that certain things disturb you due to x, which probably is far more honest than the line they're spinning.

When i revamped my list of what i wanted in a prospective partner, i also forced myself to answer some tough questions in the process. i needed to justify my deal breakers and preferences to myself. Not because i'm not entitled to them, but i wanted to make sure they existed for valid reasons and weren't a convenient smokescreen to evade the truth. i learned a lot about myself through that exercise. It was well worth it.

quote:

Its my belief.. and only a belief... that a Dominant should choose a submissive that compliments his own intelligence, blending the two to make better the whole. (Not saying that should be the only criteria.)

i've come to discover in my old age that ones complement often arrives in the areas we need versus those that we want most. While the preferred guise might usher in intelligence, what is best may speak of other attributes that will bring real joy in the long run. i've encountered many intelligent dominant men over the years. However, the number amongst the group that were king and loving individuals that i could bare my soul to was relatively small. At the end of the day i'd call on those things far more than some book sense. :)

Namaste,

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RE: Smarts? - 4/1/2011 11:48:58 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

i've come to discover in my old age that ones complement often arrives in the areas we need versus those that we want most. While the preferred guise might usher in intelligence, what is best may speak of other attributes that will bring real joy in the long run. i've encountered many intelligent dominant men over the years. However, the number amongst the group that were king and loving individuals that i could bare my soul to was relatively small. At the end of the day i'd call on those things far more than some book sense. :)

I dont consider intelligence to be only book sense. There is the expression... he is so smart, he is stupid.

If we use the definition of the word...

Definition of INTELLIGENCE
1a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)

The definition itself has little to do with books and much to do with the aquisition of information added with the ability to utilize it. I have known far smarter people with only a 6th grade education than some college graduates with doctorate degrees.

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RE: Smarts? - 4/2/2011 4:53:32 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont consider intelligence to be only book sense. There is the expression... he is so smart, he is stupid.

The verbiage utilized was not to reduce the word to a sole meaning, but illustrate the greater point behind what was stated. Which simply noted the importance of having someone you can relate to, aside from merely benefiting from their intelligence.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

< Message edited by porcelaine -- 4/2/2011 4:54:33 AM >

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RE: Smarts? - 4/2/2011 8:46:36 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Re Ishtarr's assertion that European men don't do this, I'll disagree. Greeks and Yugoslavians - specifically Croats and Serbs do IME. Not nearly as common in Holland, Belgium and the French part of Switzerland.
I will say I do find this more in Italian Americans than in other ethnic groups, although going by Jersey Shore both sexes have now adopted it.

And lets not get started on South American machismo which values looks only in women and discounts them as resources.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never made such assertion...

I said I had never come across it in Europe, wondered if it had to do with the type of social groups I tend to hang out with, and said it made me curious as to whether it's a cultural phenomenon or not.

Jeff's comment that it's not as common in the US as this thread has made it sound made a lot of sense to me, and your assertion that some countries in Europe do display this behavior seems to indicate that it is indeed a cultural thing, like I was wondering all along.

So how is my saying what my experience is, putting words in your mouth? I could of sworn those words were from my mouth. Or fingers as the case may be.

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Post #: 113

RE: Smarts? - 4/2/2011 9:00:12 AM

Ishtarr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Re Ishtarr's assertion that European men don't do this, I'll disagree. Greeks and Yugoslavians - specifically Croats and Serbs do IME. Not nearly as common in Holland, Belgium and the French part of Switzerland.
I will say I do find this more in Italian Americans than in other ethnic groups, although going by Jersey Shore both sexes have now adopted it.

And lets not get started on South American machismo which values looks only in women and discounts them as resources.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never made such assertion...

I said I had never come across it in Europe, wondered if it had to do with the type of social groups I tend to hang out with, and said it made me curious as to whether it's a cultural phenomenon or not.

Jeff's comment that it's not as common in the US as this thread has made it sound made a lot of sense to me, and your assertion that some countries in Europe do display this behavior seems to indicate that it is indeed a cultural thing, like I was wondering all along.

So how is my saying what my experience is, putting words in your mouth? I could of sworn those words were from my mouth. Or fingers as the case may be.

You saying that I asserted that "European men don't do this" is putting words in my mouth considering that I never said "European men don't do this".

So you disagreeing with a statement that I didn't make is just weird.

I have no problem with your opinion, just don't claim that I've asserted things I haven't even said.

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 4/2/2011 9:01:20 AM >

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Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

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Post #: 114