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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 4:24:17 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:


FirmhandKY
The subject is about the value of an opinion, not the right to express it. 


The value of an opinion cannot be assessed in advance. The opinion has to be expressed before it can be assessed. It should then be assessed according to its merits eg. content, quality and accuracy (to mention a few of the relevant criteria)

Attempts to set out in advance what is say-able or who can say it, have an sad tendency to end up as censorship. This may not be your intention. So why not just leave it at everyone has an equal right to express a view and that view stands or falls on its merits.

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 4:54:10 PM   
TreasureKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:


FirmhandKY
The subject is about the value of an opinion, not the right to express it. 


The value of an opinion cannot be assessed in advance. The opinion has to be expressed before it can be assessed. It should then be assessed according to its merits eg. content, quality and accuracy (to mention a few of the relevant criteria)

Attempts to set out in advance what is say-able or who can say it, have an sad tendency to end up as censorship. This may not be your intention. So why not just leave it at everyone has an equal right to express a view and that view stands or falls on its merits.


You do have a point, Tweak... but I don't believe the suggestion is to prevent anyone from providing their opinion in the first place.  Rather, to express the belief that anyone providing their opinion should be prepared to offer up some kind of basis for that opinion (so that others are able to assess the value)... and be willing to have an open dialog concerning that opinion.

"Because I said so" just doesn't really cut it. 

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 7:11:45 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:


FirmhandKY
The subject is about the value of an opinion, not the right to express it. 


The value of an opinion cannot be assessed in advance. The opinion has to be expressed before it can be assessed. It should then be assessed according to its merits eg. content, quality and accuracy (to mention a few of the relevant criteria)

Attempts to set out in advance what is say-able or who can say it, have an sad tendency to end up as censorship. This may not be your intention. So why not just leave it at everyone has an equal right to express a view and that view stands or falls on its merits.


You do have a point, Tweak... but I don't believe the suggestion is to prevent anyone from providing their opinion in the first place.  Rather, to express the belief that anyone providing their opinion should be prepared to offer up some kind of basis for that opinion (so that others are able to assess the value)... and be willing to have an open dialog concerning that opinion.

"Because I said so" just doesn't really cut it. 


I am delighted to hear that Treasure. And I certainly agree that anyone expressing a view should expect to have that view analysed, dissected and evaluated. It is entirely reasonable to expect people to support their views with evidence and dialogue. I'm glad we have achieved a consensus on that.

Regarding those "Beacuse I say so" posts, my observation is that forum contributors are astute in assessing opinions and separating fantasy from fact when commenting on others' posts. Or to put that more bluntly, BS artists are quickly recognised for what they are. For mine, it's not a cause for great concern.

Another aspect to consider here is that some people eg. some women or people whose first language is not English, might not feel as encouraged to express themselves as they could be when limitations are set out in advance.

So I'd prefer to see the emphasis on encouraging participation from as many perspectives and individuals as possible. There's so much to be gained by us all through encouraging diversity of views and participants from all parts of the world, whatever the topic. I do hope we can agree on that too.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/30/2011 7:13:49 PM >

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 9:01:47 PM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		I'm not going to read through the whole thread...its too long ang I'm not really all that interested in where the discussion has wandered. Maybe another time. In answer to your basic question, Ron, whenever somebody responds to one of my posts by pointing out that I am Canadian, I generally assume it means that I was right, and they have nothing with which to refute whatever it was that I said.

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 9:34:02 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I'm not going to read through the whole thread...its too long ang I'm not really all that interested in where the discussion has wandered.

You missed some good stuff Arpig.  I even talked about you. 

Firm


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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 9:47:05 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You have no clue of american politics.

Why don't you keep your beak in your own business you limey bastard and stay out of our politics.


They PWN your slave ass and you are just in DNile even after I have proven it several times you think you are free when you are slave neo.

Of course there is nothing better than a slave who thinks they are free.


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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 9:53:38 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

I'd guess that the one difference you could nail down between British conservatives and US conservatives is the British obsession with free trade which pervades all of the main political parties and has done since Churchill defected to the Liberal Party on such a point.



yeh but what escapes people over here is that the word "FREE" when used in that context means franchised.


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 9:57:15 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You have no clue of american politics.

Why don't you keep your beak in your own business you limey bastard and stay out of our politics.


They PWN your slave ass and you are just in DNile even after I have proven it several times you think you are free when you are slave neo.

Of course there is nothing better than a slave who thinks they are free.

Hey Neo was cool...I think some guy around here actually uses him as an avatar


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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/30/2011 10:01:26 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Nope. "Social Democracy" is a nasty European idea that would never work in practice. Just like socialised medicine or national service. It's not at all the sort of idea that Roosevelt was taken with, and anybody who says otherwise is obviously a socialist dupe.


HUH?

Are you dreamaing?

Thats what literally the whole world is!

America was converted into by FDR in 1933 when the seeds planted 1868 came into full bloom.

A legislative democracy no less.

If you or anyone else thinks there is a "Republic" somewhere in america do tell where I can find it!  

It was abolished neo!  Welcome to the desert of the real. 

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/30/2011 10:02:53 PM >

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 6:06:28 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

  Welcome to the desert of the real. 

Gee! That's a wonderful phrase RealOne. I'm quite taken with it.

Are you sure you aren't a French post-structuralist philosopher in disguise?

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 6:18:50 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I'm not going to read through the whole thread...its too long ang I'm not really all that interested in where the discussion has wandered. Maybe another time. In answer to your basic question, Ron, whenever somebody responds to one of my posts by pointing out that I am Canadian, I generally assume it means that I was right, and they have nothing with which to refute whatever it was that I said.


But you've got to find it amusing when the same people try and devalue your opinion because your Canadian or someone  who is British will then turn around and try to explain how YOUR health care "really" operates.

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 6:56:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Hear me now.

What is it with you blokes, you have Rudolph Hess blowing into town on the wind, in the day, and now you got Moussa Koussa over for bangers and mash?

What is it about your town?

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:07:58 AM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Oooh, now this could get interesting. There are plenty of answered questions about the Lockerbie incident and Moussa Koussa, despite being a deeply unpleasant old weasel, could be in a position to answer them.



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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:12:53 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Word out of whitehall is they are not going to offer him asylum. I suspect that is the public line, but they are hardly going to send him off to the colonies, eh?

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:20:59 AM   
tweakabelle


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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Word out of whitehall is they are not going to offer him asylum. I suspect that is the public line, but they are hardly going to send him off to the colonies, eh?



Don't you even think about it. We ceased being a colony a long long time ago!

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:23:18 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		I think he means the 'States, not Australia, tweak.

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:24:57 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I think he means the 'States, not Australia, tweak.

Phew! I was worried there for a minute. Thanks for the re-assurance!

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:25:44 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Right!  If I had meant a penal colony, I would have said it, innit?

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:27:35 AM   
Moonhead


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Sorted.

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RE: Inglorious (Limey) Bastards - 3/31/2011 7:27:49 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		we're a penile colony these days mnot a phallocracy!

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