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RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 9:42:47 AM

nephandi

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From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
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Greetings

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I agree that there's no one true way. But I disagree that it isn't worth discussing. Because just as you might prefer the taste of one tea to another, so we all prefer different styles. They simply fit us better.

There can be one true way for an individual, the way which makes the BDSM lifestyle come alive for you. However my ideal way might be completely wrong for you. I think there is no universal truths in anything, only personal truths and even those are likely to change as the individual evolves.

I wish you well.

_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 41

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 9:48:08 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways. You can tell when something went the wrong way when it does far more harm than good and not much worth redeeming comes out of it... You can bake many different kinds of cake, in the end it is subjective as to which is the superior cake. If you replace the sugar with salt it isn't really going to be a very edible cake, even if it looks like cake, smells like cake, and feels like cake.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 42

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 9:59:51 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways. You can tell when something went the wrong way when it does far more harm than good and not much worth redeeming comes out of it... You can bake many different kinds of cake, in the end it is subjective as to which is the superior cake. If you replace the sugar with salt it isn't really going to be a very edible cake, even if it looks like cake, smells like cake, and feels like cake.

Excellent comment, Juliaoceania! And I really like the cake analogy.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 43

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 10:35:15 AM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways.

If it helps, in order to arrive at a view of what is wrong you must have a standard of what is right, i.e. the one true way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You can bake many different kinds of cake, in the end it is subjective as to which is the superior cake. If you replace the sugar with salt it isn't really going to be a very edible cake, even if it looks like cake, smells like cake, and feels like cake.

Some people like salt in their cake, may seem odd to you, but it takes all sorts.

Let's be honest here, none of us, you nor I, are really, truly objective. We all have something we will not tolerate.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 44

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 10:38:22 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways.

Which begs the question oceania, is there one true wrong way?

Good to see you again (although not as good to SEE as your last picture I remember).

R

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 45

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 10:47:52 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways.

If it helps, in order to arrive at a view of what is wrong you must have a standard of what is right, i.e. the one true way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

You can bake many different kinds of cake, in the end it is subjective as to which is the superior cake. If you replace the sugar with salt it isn't really going to be a very edible cake, even if it looks like cake, smells like cake, and feels like cake.

Some people like salt in their cake, may seem odd to you, but it takes all sorts.

Let's be honest here, none of us, you nor I, are really, truly objective. We all have something we will not tolerate.

I do not think you understood what I said at all.... and you chopped up my post.

If something only generates unhappiness and pain for the people involved, and they do not want to be unhappy or in pain, then it is wrong for them. I do not have a standard other than what results from whatever recipe people decide to use. People doing WIITWD often seem to be doing it wrong because they are often unhappy, in pain, and their relationships often don't work... if they can find one in the first place. Same crap as in vanilla relationships, which people often do wrong also. Is there One True Way? No, there are just a bunch of wrong ways, and most of us have done it the wrong way repeatedly, and I am not exempting myself from that statement.

I made the mistake of replacing salt with sugar in a cake once.... if you had ever done so you would know that it would have to be a person with freaky taste buds to enjoy it. It was so salty that it was like I suck my tongue out and poured salt on it. Now there might be someone out there who enjoys that, one person out of 10,000, but lets face it, most of us don't. If that one person in 10,000 wants to bake a cake by replacing the sugar with the salt and they can find another fan of such cake to share it with, well that is nice for them. But for the vast majority of us it is the wrong way to do something.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/22/2011 10:49:37 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 46

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 10:51:31 AM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Which begs the question oceania, is there one true wrong way?

These are the sort of posts we need on these boards. Exceptional. Is there one true wrong way? If there's no true right way then there can't be no true wrong way, Nietzsche would be pleased that we've dispelled this false dichotomy (in his view), but if there's no measurement going on round here, no objective standard, then how can we assess our progress, and are we even alive and does anyone care about what we do? do we need a government? can I go out tomorrow and kill someone and escape a prison sentence on the grounds that there's no one true way (right or wrong)? Why I am posting? There's no right and wrong so it's all meaningless, anyway.

And, in the final analysis, a lot of these posts round here, and conversations in the wider world, suggest that we don't really believe there's no one true way, 'cause I've seen arguments going on about why red knickers can never be worn on a Sunday.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 47

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 10:53:56 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways.

Which begs the question oceania, is there one true wrong way?

Good to see you again (although not as good to SEE as your last picture I remember).

R

I don't know, and since I would have to try every wrong way there is I do not want to find out. I would rather find my One True Way (if there is only one true way for me )....

And it is very nice to see you again!

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/22/2011 10:54:33 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 48

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 10:58:31 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

but if there's no measurement going on round here, no objective standard, then how can we assess our progress

Personal satisfaction is a good measurement, or we could go with longevity of the relationship (a poor measure in my book). We could look at what comes out of the relationship, such as improved material wealth, career prospects, or what the people build together.

Lots of ways to measure a thing to get at the value of it. And I would posit that the value of a thing is one of the most subjective judgments of all.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 49

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 11:03:06 AM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not think you understood what I said at all.... and you chopped up my post.

There's not much I do understand, Julia, but then again there's no one true way of understanding is there - any idea how smug I feel now in my small, malnourished mind?

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I made the mistake of replacing salt with sugar in a cake once.... if you had ever done so you would know that it would have to be a person with freaky taste buds to enjoy it. It was so salty that it was like I suck my tongue out and poured salt on it. Now there might be someone out there who enjoys that, one person out of 10,000, but lets face it, most of us don't. If that one person in 10,000 wants to bake a cake by replacing the sugar with the salt and they can find another fan of such cake to share it with, well that is nice for them. But for the vast majority of us it is the wrong way to do something.

Here's what you do: don't buy salt.

The majority? the norm? Nietzsche (keep quoting him because although he was barking mad and I don't agree with anything he said, he was a very interesting fella) wouldn't sit inside the norm, and then there'd be no Freud and the rest. And then there'd be no shrinks to wail at.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 50

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 11:12:26 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Personally I do not think there is one true way, but I do think there are wrong ways.

in order to arrive at a view of what is wrong you must have a standard of what is right, i.e. the one true way.

NorthernGent,
Actually, I think you're applying bad logic here. Saying that there are potentially wrong ways does not imply that there is only one true way.

For example, if I asked you to select any color from a vast spectrum, but said that you were not allowed to choose burnt orange, then in that scenario choosing burnt orange would be a "wrong" choice. However, there would be an infinite number of "right" choices that you could make. Thus, not allowing you to choose burnt orange did not narrow your choices to only one possibility (the one true way). In fact, it in no way even implies that there is "one true" way.

Saying that there are wrong ways does NOT imply that there is one true way.

In BDSM, there are as many "wrong" ways as there are individuals. Every person has a different stimulus that rubs them the wrong way. But acknowledging that there are many varied "wrongs" does not logically lead to the conclusion that there is one right.

The reality is that there are many right ways, and many wrong ways. When it comes to human behavior, right and wrong tend to be both personal and subjective. So it's generally a mistake to apply absolute concepts like "one true way" to completely subjective topics.

BTW, I'm not saying that your point is without merit. I'm simply pointing out that the logic that you were using to support that one point was flawed.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 4/22/2011 11:17:09 AM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 51

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 11:15:32 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

The majority? the norm? Nietzsche (keep quoting him because although he was barking mad and I don't agree with anything he said, he was a very interesting fella) wouldn't sit inside the norm, and then there'd be no Freud and the rest. And then there'd be no shrinks to wail at.

I would say if you can statistically sample people and find that rarely do they want to eat extremely salty pastries it would stand to reason that a penchant for them falls outside of the norm of the bell curve. These people are outliers . Does it make it wrong to like such a cake? No. Technically speaking there are people who develop an immunity to various poisons such as strychnine, and we could put that in our hypothetical recipe. For those rare people that can ingest it eating the cake would not be wrong, but for the rest of us it certainly would be. In fact depending on the degree of immunity to the poison, it might be wrong even if you had immunity to the poison.

So, we outliers and freaks that enjoy WIITWD are not "wrong" for it, but perhaps our "immunity" isn't always as high as we would like to believe it to be. Maybe people get damaged by these relationships in ways they cannot calculate while they are going on.

Relationships take more than one person. The way has to be true for those engaged in them for them to be a True Way. If just one person opts out, they are saying that way wasn't right for them... a false path if you will.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 52

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 11:36:08 AM

NorthernGent

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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

For those rare people that can ingest it eating the cake would not be wrong, but for the rest of us it certainly would be.

It would be a cake, possibly chocolate and baked by a cake genius, and while I'm not rare enough to eat such cakes, I wouldn't fall into the 'your cake is a disgrace and therefore wrong' category. I'd just say, enjoy your cake and if you die in the process then I'm not calling the paramedics as I'm meeting my brother for a quick drink and he doesnt like waiting; on the otherhand, if you don't like cakes then just have an apple instead.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 53

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 11:53:46 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

I'd just say, enjoy your cake and if you die in the process then I'm not calling the paramedics as I'm meeting my brother for a quick drink and he doesnt like waiting

I don't know, it sounds a bit too much like "Do what thou wilt" for my tastes

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 4/22/2011 11:54:03 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 54

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 12:10:38 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I'd just say, enjoy your cake and if you die in the process then I'm not calling the paramedics as I'm meeting my brother for a quick drink and he doesnt like waiting

I don't know, it sounds a bit too much like "Do what thou wilt" for my tastes

You could be right, Julia. I'll have a think about it.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 55

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 12:31:42 PM

porcelaine

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Greetings,

i pay little attention to the 'way' but rather the individual it hails from. i've found that if i cannot stomach the deliverer it is probable i'll have no appreciation for the ideas he espouses. We can hear the same notion from a different party and find it perfectly acceptable. And that truth has been proven many times over in this venue. It often boils down to the mouthpiece.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 56

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 12:40:52 PM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

Greetings,

i pay little attention to the 'way' but rather the individual it hails from. i've found that if i cannot stomach the deliverer it is probable i'll have no appreciation for the ideas he espouses. We can hear the same notion from a different party and find it perfectly acceptable. And that truth has been proven many times over in this venue. It often boils down to the mouthpiece.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

Mind and person - are they two distinct entities, or one and the same, porcelaine?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 57

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 12:57:53 PM

PetiteOralSub

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/21/2010
Status: offline

To Thine Own Self be True
Live and Let Live

I don't know if there is One True Way to any aspect of life, for anybody, except for myself.
But i also know, that becase I live, breathe, grow and evolve, regarding any aspect of life,
my One True Way, today, maybe be vastly different than what it was yesterday, and will be tomorrow.
For me this is especially true regarding the BDSM Lifestyle as I am so newly awakened.
In BDSM terms, I'm still a horny teenager finding my way, but inside the vanilla body of a mature woman with a certain amount of wisdom regarding human nature, that you cant help but to have acquired by 48.

_____________________________

respectfully

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 58

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 1:11:55 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Mind and person - are they two distinct entities, or one and the same, porcelaine?

Greetings NorthernGent,

In my opinion they exist in the same body but aren't always on one accord. And to truly examine that comment requires consideration of other elements including ones emotions and outside influences. Our beliefs aren't always put into play and in many instances people profess things that they rarely adhere to with any continuity. So no, i don't agree that 'the way' an individual espouses is necessarily how the party lives. Observation and time usually afford one an ability to see the disconnection between the two. i consider the 'way' many discuss as the 'ideal' they aspire to uphold or readily embrace. It is a work in progress from my perspective.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 59

RE: -=BDSM - One True Way=- - 4/22/2011 1:26:11 PM

Asherscorp1

Posts: 143
Joined: 3/6/2011
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I am a "researcher" by nature and I also tend toward catergorizing everything so when I began researching BDSM lifestyles it was with the intent to find out "what am I" "which catergory do I fit" ... the result was that my head was spun but I still didn't know what I was. In the end I finally just adopted the words that felt right and be damned to anyone else's opinion. I still do use terms or catergories just to have a reference point for talking to other people in the lifestyle but it's very comforting once you realize that the "terms" are only there as a starting point, they do not define or encompass everything. It frees you up to make your own catergory just for you. I love the tea analogy since it sums up that everyone has vastly different viewpoints on the exact same thing and everyone of them can be "right."

_____________________________

"The path to slavery is so narrow that two cannot walk upon it at the same time, hence why the slave must crawl behind." -- Unknown

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 60

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