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RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 10:58:49 AM

Archer

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housesub4you

Military cuts you ask????

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/143957-gates-criticizes-gop-for-proposed-cuts-to-defense-spending

Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Monday said the House GOP budget for the Pentagon is "disconnected" from operational realities. Gates said the Pentagon needs $540 billion for fiscal 2011, less than the $548 billion initially sought by the Obama administration but $14 billion more than what House Republicans are offering in a continuing resolution to fund the government for the rest of the year.
Oh and that's an old news item from back in February.You need to get the updated talking points forwarded to you.LOL

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 21

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 11:27:30 AM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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The GOP says it's about the deficit....and yet all the cuts they are proposing are along ideological lines.They are attacking the same things they are always attacking and this time they are trying to do it under cover of being holy warriors against the deficit.Well I'm not buying that bullshit....and the Democrats aren't buying that bullshit....and if and when the gov't shuts down President Obama and the Democratic party are going to be handed one hell of a stick to beat over the GOP's head.

This is a clear cut case of the tea baggers leading poor Boehner and that Grand Old Party over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings.
Talk about drinking the kool aid.....cut PP,don't talk about the Military.,eliminate the NEA....grant more corporate tax rebates...lower the rate on the wealthiest Americans....and than claim you are deficit hawks.Do they really expect America to buy this,do they completely forget 1995?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 22

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 11:37:12 AM

Sanity

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_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 23

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 11:41:25 AM

Archer

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slvmike4u if I thought for even a second that you would feel the same if it was Democrats cutting only the ideological things they dislike I might believe you were sincere.

You (generic) spend money on things you like and think are good ideas, you cut from the budget the things you believe to be unnecessary.
That applies no matter what letter follows your name.

Congress has shown repeatedly under both parties that it will spend more than it brings in no matter how much it brings in. So additional taxes will not now will not ever be the solution to deficits. Tax the rich the poor the middle at whatever rates you like and they will spend 100% + some of what they bring in in taxes. That applies to Dems and Repubs alike.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 24

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 12:02:07 PM

housesub4you

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Joined: 4/2/2008
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Here was the response to what the problem is from the DEMS

REID: Our differences are no longer over how much savings we get under government spending. The only thing holding up an agreement is ideology. […] I’m sorry to say, Mr. President, that my friend, the Speaker, and the Republican leadership have drawn a line in the sand. … the two main issues that are holding this matter up are the choice of women, reproductive rights, and clean air. These matters have no place on a budget bill, Mr. President. This is a bill to keep the government running with dollars. They want to roll back the Clean Air Act. So if this government shuts down – and it looks like it’s headed in that direction – it’s going to be based on my friends in the House of Representatives, the leadership over there, focusing on ideological matters that have nothing to do with funding this government.

So they want riders restricting the rights of women in the billm what does that have to do with spending cuts. Hmmm seems this problem has been seen before.....

You know when??? the last time the GOP shut the government down and we know how well that turned out

“Gingrich and Dole are offering the funding and higher-debt bills but have loaded them with ‘riders’ such as the Medicare bill that the president won’t accept and with other items such as limits on appeals by death-row inmates. [Denver Post, 11/15/95] “One of the largest spending bills, for the Commerce, Justice and State Departments, is still being negotiated because it has riders on social issues like school prayer. The spending bill for the District of Columbia has been bogged down over a provision to bar Federal money to pay for abortions in the District and would prohibit public hospitals and clinics from offering abortion services.” [New York Times, 11/29/95] “Congress has been unable to send any bill to the president because of the excessive number of anti-environmental riders.” [U.S. Newswire, 12/8/95]

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 4/7/2011 12:06:16 PM >

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 25

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 12:12:09 PM

housesub4you

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He was talking about the operational budget, however he seems to think the excessive spending on projects they do not need can and should be cut.

DoD officials for years have tried to terminate the alternative engine effort, saying it is not needed. But prime contractors Rolls-Royce and General Electric have rallied enough support in Congress to keep it alive. Pratt & Whitney is building the primary F-35 power plant.The latest version of the alternative engine clash comes amid a new backdrop: Congress is focused on deep spending cuts to help shrink the massive federal deficit, and some critics of the second F-35 engine call it an earmark.Gates urged the new members to agree with Pentagon officials that it is “an unnecessary and extravagant expense.”

But it seems that money is going to companies based in GOP strong holds, such as Ohio where the Speaker will not let the useless program be cut perhaps you should read the whole article to cut and paste from LMAO

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 26

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 1:09:16 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

slvmike4u if I thought for even a second that you would feel the same if it was Democrats cutting only the ideological things they dislike I might believe you were sincere.

You (generic) spend money on things you like and think are good ideas, you cut from the budget the things you believe to be unnecessary.
That applies no matter what letter follows your name.

Congress has shown repeatedly under both parties that it will spend more than it brings in no matter how much it brings in. So additional taxes will not now will not ever be the solution to deficits. Tax the rich the poor the middle at whatever rates you like and they will spend 100% + some of what they bring in in taxes. That applies to Dems and Repubs alike.

Why do you have reasons to suspect my honesty,do we know each other?Have we had dealings in the past where you have found me to be less than dishonest?
The tea baggers arrived in Washington proclaiming war on Gov't deficits...than they propose cuts that are nothing short of a continuation of the same old culture war.
Roe vs Wade was decided by the Judiciary how many decades ago?
Yet these tea baggers want to refight that particular battle and call it a financial matter!
Are you buying that load of bullshit?
Were the Dems to grant all of the Repubs suggested guts,bend over and take it fully in the ass.....what effect would this truly have on the deficit? One akin to removing a bucket of sand from the seashore,no more.But target programs would be gutted,the Republican war on the poor,single mothers,pregnant teens ,voting registration programs...the arts....would take a great leap forward.
Tea Baggers discovered the ills deficits entail the day the Democrats took the reigns of power.Where was all of this rightous indignation when Bush was running wars off the books...passing the bucks down the line?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 27

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 1:22:47 PM

joether

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
slvmike4u if I thought for even a second that you would feel the same if it was Democrats cutting only the ideological things they dislike I might believe you were sincere.

I believe Democrats would come to the table, and comprise on parts they dont want to see cut, in order to deal with the budget deficit. Can't say the same for the Republicans. Libertarians? Well, I think they would do something akind to both Democrats and Republicans, and try to do it at once....and fail....while being laughed at.

Why is the nation's deficit so high, Archer? Perhaps you can show me, with evidence, how its 'all President Obama's fault'. And arguing that it was 'President Obama's fault during the years of 2000-2008, to which the deficit grew by 'leaps and bounds'. Maybe you could also inform me, how we waged a war against a nation we never declared war on?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
You (generic) spend money on things you like and think are good ideas, you cut from the budget the things you believe to be unnecessary. That applies no matter what letter follows your name.

So your going to blame 'normal psychology' that takes place in each and every Homo Sapien, on Democrats? I'm going to assume your not THAT unrealistic. Yes, people spend money on things they like, and are good ideas to them, and cut out of the budget that which they feel is not needed. I personally dont need Social Security right now. There are alot of programs, services, and agencies I dont have a use for, nor need. But by telling you, that I reconize the importances each of these play in the nation, would obviously put a rather large hole in your arguement.

The real difference between liberals and conservatives, comes to the concept of 'compassion for others'. Conservatives seem to be the most selfish, miserly, and miserable people on the planet; And assume everyone else is just like them! I understand WHY those programs, services, and agencies are in place. I also understand what will more likely take place, should those things be removed or vastly undermined. You, apparently....dont.

Is there stuff in the budget that is a waste? Propably. But I also see another reality that is also unknown apparently (again) to conservatives: cutting spending, will cut jobs. During a recession, while unemployment is high in many states; Does it make sense to put MORE people on the unemployment lines? And I'm not just talking public sector workers, as they'll be the smaller of two groups hit. No, the private sector will get hit more and harder. A mere $10 Billion buys a lot of USA, domestic jobs. $100 Billion, doesn't just net ten times the amount of the $10 Billion figure, but more (scale of economies).

How does it make sense to make those cuts, knowing that, Archer?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Congress has shown repeatedly under both parties that it will spend more than it brings in no matter how much it brings in. So additional taxes will not now will not ever be the solution to deficits. Tax the rich the poor the middle at whatever rates you like and they will spend 100% + some of what they bring in in taxes. That applies to Dems and Repubs alike.

So, we should just 'throw out Congress'? While we are at it, lets throw out the President, the US Constitution, that ugly US Deficit, tell ourselves the US Debt is a figment of our imaginations. After your (generic) done with your (generic, again) child-like temper tantrum. Then what?

Us adults, Archer, have to deal with the problems that are created from bad decisions. Bush made a huge number of very bad decisions in his eight years, and we, the American people have to deal with it, like adults. If raising taxes and cutting spending, solves the deficit and debt problem, then that is what we have to do. Children are known, to not take responsibility for the things they do and dont do. Conservatives, it seems, have behaved and still are behaving, like little children. If you dont want to 'man up' and 'behave like an adult', Archer (generic), then renounce your citizenship and GTFO. That's 'get the frak out' for all you 'children' on these forums.

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 28

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 2:06:57 PM

Archer

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Strawmen and Hyperbole, I should know to expect just that Joether, your shots of "child like" I dismiss as childlike in and of themselves.
I never suggested throwing them all out and disbanding Congress etc, that's all indicative of your maturity projections here.

" I believe Democrats would come to the table, and (compromise) on parts they dont want to see cut, in order to deal with the budget deficit." Really seriously, where was this compromise in May 2010, June 2010, July 2010, August 2010, September 2010, October 2010, November 2010 and December 2010?
The proof is in the pudding, the deficit commission report that Obama requested has come back and the suggestions of that commission have be dismissed as too extreme even for the Republicans.

You ask " Why is the nation's deficit so high, Archer? " a question I have already answered twice, but children sometimes need the lessons repeated several times.

Now don;'t strawman this Joether

"Congress has for decades, under both BOTH BOTH parties spent more than the tax system takes in."

How you make that into my position being that it is Obama's fault I don't know, but I'm used to it.

I'm passing blame around on all parties when it comes to the debt and the deficit, I'm saying that CUTS have to be made, that taxation changes like the over $250,000 rate hike would be to use (edited to correct it to slvemike4u's) example a teaspoon rather than a bucket of sand at the beach.

Cuts may cost jobs, I recognize that possibility, a public debt carried to the levels we have done this far retards growth as well. When do you propose we start to actually live within our means as a country? How many more years with trillion dollar deficits do you propose? I was a deficit hawk under Bush 2 as well, I spoke specifically about how he couldn't seem to find his veto pen until the last 2 years of his 8 years as president. Even then he didn't use it to cut any real spending.

We adults have to take a look not only at one party as being the villains here, because deficit spending has not stopped happening for any real length of time in 50+ years. (2 years or so of PROJECTED surplus don't make up for 60+ years of deficit spending under both parties)
We Adults have to actually make tough choices (BTW I mentioned earlier that PP was not a cut I had any fondness for)

Truth be told even some of the untouchable items may have to be touched to solve the problems we have let the politicians kick down the road for over a generation.
We may have to live the governmental example of beans and rice with beans on Monday and rice on Tuesday for awhile.

And BTW you can't make Archer (generic) it is by nature a personal attack there when you name me.

"If you don't want to 'man up' and 'behave like an adult', Archer (generic), then renounce your citizenship and GTFO."

Oh and the renounce your citizenship and GTFO is classically 3rd grade.

< Message edited by Archer -- 4/7/2011 2:29:16 PM >

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 29

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 2:26:49 PM

defiantbadgirl

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If the government shuts down, it's the GOP's fault. They're the ones wanting to put spending caps on medicaid so children with chronic health issues die and helpless elderly people with alzheimers get kicked out of nursing homes. If the democrats allow it, they'll be as despicible as the republicans suggesting it. I'd rather the government shut down for awhile than see innocent children die and helpless elderly kicked out on the street. There is never an excuse for something like that. Ever.

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(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 30

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 2:32:55 PM

Archer

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slvemike4u, it's not your honesty I hold suspect it;'s you partisanship.

If you were equally addressing the fact that partisan politics always determine who wants what cut for both parties, I would have found you sincere.

Both sides have their sacred cows and their sacrificial lambs.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 31

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 3:57:02 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

If the government shuts down, it's the GOP's fault.

Know what? Its both their faults.

Republican, Democrat, and if you want to get technical about it, Independent and Tea Party as well.

Now, think about this.

While around 800,000 people will be furloughed.......

Question: How would a shutdown affect the Internal Revenue Service?

Answer: Processing of refunds for paper-filed returns would be suspended, as would tax audits. The deadline for filing tax returns &mdash this year April 18 &mdash would not be affected.

Q: I'm applying for a small-business loan through the government. Should I expect delays?

A: In the event of a federal shutdown, the Small Business Administration would not approve applications for business loan guarantees, and direct loans to small businesses would cease.

Q: What about loans through the Federal Housing Administration?

A: The FHA would not be able to guarantee new home loans.

Q: I was planning a trip to a national park. Should I make other plans?

A: All national parks and many monuments would be closed, including the museums that make up the Smithsonian Institution. The National Cherry Blossom Festival Parade could be canceled, though other activities would continue this weekend.

Q: I need help from the Veterans Affairs Department. Will that remain open?

A: Although the VA was largely closed in 1995-96 shutdowns, department offices would remain open now because of a multi-year appropriation.

Q: What about the Environmental Protection Agency?

A: The EPA would cease permitting. Review of environmental impact statements would stop, slowing approval of energy and transportation projects.

Q: I rely on Social Security. Should I be concerned?

A: Beneficiaries would continue to get benefits unless a shutdown extended for months.

Q: How would Medicare be affected?

A: The federal insurance program for the elderly would be viable, at least for a short period.

Q: I serve in the armed forces. Will I still get paid?

A: Military personnel would continue to earn money but would not receive paychecks until Congress appropriated the money. They would be paid through April 8.

Q: What would happen to Congress and the courts?

A: They have their own shutdown plans and guidelines.

Q: How many federal employees would be furloughed?

A: The specific number is not known, but it would probably be in the vicinity of 800,000 people.

Q: What about federal activities to protect the public?

A: Employees or agencies deemed "necessary for safety of life or protection of property" would remain on the job. For example, air traffic control, food inspection, border surveillance and inspection of nuclear power plants would continue. The federal school lunch program would continue.

Source: Office of Management and Budget

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-shutdown-qanda,0,5952577.story?track=rss

There isnt a single person this shut down wont affect. NOT a single one.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Post #: 32

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 4:21:09 PM

FatDomDaddy

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FR

The House sent a bill to the Senate.

The Senate refuses to send it to the floor of their chamber for a vote on it.

So how are the Republicans shutting down the Government?

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Post #: 33

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 4:30:47 PM

tazzygirl

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Because the House Republicans are demanding cuts in the extension.

The House Republicans demanded a 30+ Billion cut to the budget. The House Democrats said yes. The House Republicans wanted more.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)

Post #: 34

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 4:34:03 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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~FR

Now, someone want to explain the reasoning behind this little jewel?

quote:

Republicans were well aware that their bill, the "Government Shutdown Prevention Act of 2011," does not follow the traditional path to becoming law, stood no chance of doing so and raised constitutional questions over its terms.

They brought it up for debate anyway, the latest round in the circular finger-pointing exercise to redirect blame for the budget impasse onto others.

Under the bill, the budget already passed by the House and rejected by the Senate becomes law if the Senate does not reverse course and approve it by April 6. The current budget that pays for the government runs out two days later, meaning that if no agreement is reached on spending for the remaining six months of this budget year, part of the government would shut down on April 9.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-04-01/news/29373762_1_house-republicans-senate-democrats-tea-party

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 35

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 5:00:08 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Here we are again in 2011 with yet another possible government shut down thanks to Republicans.This is history repeating itself all over all.When Republicans were in control of the U.S. House and Senate back in the mid 90's,they caused another government shutdown.

Its amazing when Democrats won the U.S. Senate and House back in 2006,they were able to get along well enough with then Republican President George Bush to avoid a government shutdown.Its clear the Republican can not govern properly anymore.They really are a threat to the United States of America.

OMG NO!

please no not that!

anything but shut down the government!

Do they promise to stay shut down?

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 36

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 5:02:23 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, having dispensed with:

Constitution
Duty

is there anything else, Jim?

people

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 37

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 5:24:25 PM

servantforuse

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Did any of you lefties out here ever hear of Paul Ryan ? He has a budget proposal that Obama and the dems want nothing to do with. Why, it cuts across the board..

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 38

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 5:43:26 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Did any of you lefties out here ever hear of Paul Ryan ? He has a budget proposal that Obama and the dems want nothing to do with. Why, it cuts across the board..

Nope. It whacks the hell out of entitlements while at the same time implementing tax cuts. No tax increases, no defense cuts.

And even with making ridiculous assumptions about employment dropping to historical lows for no good reasons, it still takes till 2050 and more insane assumptions to balance the budget. The only use of the Ryan report is to prove that we cannot balance the budget from entitlement cuts alone.

Time's take: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,2063713,00.html

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Post #: 39

RE: Will Republicans cause yet again another government... - 4/7/2011 5:47:12 PM

tazzygirl

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Ah, the plan that promises unemployment at 4 percent by 2015 and 2.8% by 2021... even though we havent seen that level of unemployment since 1954.

The Republican budget plan released Tuesday proposes to make dramatic changes to the Medicare program which provides health care for older Americans. Under the current system, the government reimburses doctors and hospitals for certain medical services; under the House GOP plan, seniors would purchase a private health care plan among numerous options on an exchange. The government would then pay the private insurer in the form of a subsidy up to a specified amount.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20050992-503544.html

Read, and maybe you will understand why his "proposal" isnt being embraced.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 40

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