Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa)


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 6:18:49 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
So, if you desire to see change, live and let live, for change will come when change is ready to come.



I am for change, but I am also for leaving societies live their lives how they like to live it. Back home my village was considered to be very catholic...actually so catholic that I dropped out of religious education, not because I was against being catholic (on paper) but as I had a nutter of teacher who tried to bully me when I attended a school outside of my village, that I should know oh so much about her religious stuff cause I am from THAT particular village...and we were 6 from that village in that town school, she only picked on me permanently which is why after half a term with her I had enough and was thankful that I had reached the age of 14 and nobody could stop me to drop out...gosh was that teacher pissed after she was informed by the director that I was not part of her class anymore

So quite frankly, whilst I am personally not very religious, I do not mind for countries or parts of countries to have their rules and traditions as well and so I do mind, when certain countries don't bend a millimeter for their visitors but expect other countries to allow everything, as LafayetteLady said quite rightly "In countries where burkas are commonplace, should we visit, we are expected to respect that country's culture and rules."

So I am happy for change but I am not happy to let just run a lose canon, cause as a previous teacher quite rightly said if you don't have a plan/focus where you want to be going, don't be surprised where you will end up. And that simply also applies for me for other countries, if they don't watch their own values and traditions they have (or used to have) within their country, then don't be surprised in what mess that country can end up...

Quite frankly when I visited Peru aged 16 or the particular place in Greece I went to in 2008, I enjoyed to visit those countries to learn more about their cultures and their traditions, as I am not a fan of other places where I ended up with work such as Menorca and Gran Canaria (not speaking for their country/area as a whole and in that case only about the area I went to when I worked with disabled adults) where your holiday is only based on awful tourist shops and every 3rd restaurant offering original british roast sunday

Don't get me wrong, I do know people there offer what customers want, fair enough and also some people moved from the UK to those countries and therefore want to offer their food there.

I also truly did and still do enjoy at times meals out in restaurants from other nations when I am at home to experience something different at home.

However, when now the sole focus is about allowing everything and not putting a foot down and (thats very theoretically now) every country indulges in super tolerant multi-culturalism, then quite frankly the world will be a sad place in the future in my opinion.

When I go to france (back home we take a 40min ride by car and are in france) or to switzerland (which is a 90mins car ride from where I am from back home) I want to experience france/switzerland and the way they live, not a spare resort from spain, turkey, greece or afghanistan.

I quite frankly don't believe it to be good with the whole world just being one big multicultural mess. I do believe in people moving to other countries and don't care who moves to where, but I do believe that countries musn't forget where they are coming from, and hold on onto their culture and tradition and it is absolutely ok to have certain rules in place to prevent this from happening, as otherwise they will be overrun as it is currently looking to be the case. As others had mentioned before there is no law which says women have to be covered top to toe often people from muslim countries keep saying on tv and in discussions at workplaces that there is no rule that they have to be covered so extensively. Then quite frankly there is no breach in their religious faith/tradition when countries don't allow it and the case I mentioned previously in a post where a guy from somalia apparead to have have managed to flee the country disguised as woman in a veil simply doesn't show tolerance to me...it screems stupidity when folks only follow blindly rules and regulations and are too afraid to use common sense to ensure that there is the person underneath the veil who claims to be underneath. As quite frankly when they are so high on security on the boarders, then they should consider within their workforce, what can be done when dealing with customers who are using a veil, to ensure the person beneath there is the person she claimes to be.

So quite frankly yes, we are playing directly into their hands and I hope that countries learn to value more their own traditions than some of them do at present as it would be a huge loss for the world when all of them get lost within the next few centuries.


_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 11:43:06 AM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


LLady,

I do agree if one is an immigrant, one should adapt to the social mores of the new place. The US was founded on individual liberty. In that sense, without breaking a specific law it IS pretty much a "free for all".

We are not talking about a mode of dress, we are talking about the expression of one's faith (No, the Koran does not dictate the burka specifically). It was in that vein that I DID compare the burka to a turban, both being religious wear.

Of course a Driver's license (or passport, etc) should have the driver's picture. But what law would someone be breaking by not showing their face as a matter of course? If that's the case, we should outlaw dark sunglasses.

In another post on this thread I said if it is freely worn and not imposed upon a woman, then let them wear the burka. Who are we to say they cannot dress in the way they feel they must for religion?


When it comes to something that hides ones identity that's when. Permit everything except the veil. How much simpler could it be?

Attempting to be "liberal" when it potentially interferes with international security isn't being liberal, it's being stupid. That's what covering the face amounts to, the inability to properly and adequately identify the wearer. That's why no one is bitching about turbans or saris or any other type of cultural dress. It is not a religious choice, but a cultural one.

I know it sounds harsh, but since those same cultures take the position with us, what is so wrong with saying "my country, my rules. You don't like it and don't want to abide by it, stay the hell home!"

Again, I couldn't care what they wear as long as it does not conceal their identity. If I did I would be begging the US to pass a law against 300 pound women wearing bikinis and 300 pound men wearing a speedo. But I damn sure can identify them if they did something wrong.

As for the comment about dark glasses, many places do prohibit people from wearing them in their establishment. Outside, however, it is a health issue guarding one's eyes against the rays of the sun.

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 11:57:20 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline



But do realize, LaffayetteLady, that a good portion of the crowd weighing in on this against the actions of France regarding the issue have themselves hounded mercilessly those who spoke against the airport strip searching and genitals grabbing of privately hired minimum wage workers in the US.


My mistake in expecting any consistency of logic from this sort.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/14/2011 11:59:12 AM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 12:04:13 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
I just thought of something crazy, while reading your post... imagine that, eh...

I wonder if the grope n naked body scan searches at our airports will cut down on "observant"  Muslim women emigrating to the the United States.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


But do realize, LaffayetteLady, that a good portion of the crowd weighing in on this against the actions of France regarding this issue have themselves hounded mercilessly those who spoke against the airport strip searching and genitals grabbing of privately hired minimum wage workers in the US.


My mistake in expecting any consistency of logic from this sort.






_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 12:27:51 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline 		The whole of the combined argument about this is even funnier than that.


"You can keep your burqa on, but my hired-yesterday goon has to feel your pussy before you can fly."


Now that is respect for diversity, my friend.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/14/2011 12:30:03 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 12:28:03 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


France has long been a secular state and because of all the troubles historically attributable to religious conflict has made several laws to formally establish itself as such, the most fundamental one being enacted in 1905. The ban on wearing of yarmulkes, burqas, or large crosses in public schools in 2004 was enacted as an application of this law. This latest law is just extending application of the 1905 law further, and in line with the 2004 law.




France has a history of an overbearing state stretching back to the 1700s when France produced and exported all sorts of goods, and the state syphoned off huge swathes of income in the form of taxes (it probably stretches back well before).

This isn't about securalism; it's about power.

Edited to add: the debate raged among our politicians for all of one minute here, and the conclusion drawn is that it would be unEnglish to tell people what to wear. Quite right, too.



England has never had nearly as many Jews or Muslims as continental Europe, and the numbers are not even close. As we speak, the Muslims in France or Germany each outnumber the UK accommodation by more than two to one. These people do their research beforehand, so it's a wonder why they choose away from the UK, don'cha think?

Good Brit boy there, I must say, telling the world that France is "all about the power." The deflection might work there, but the rest of the world might not always be so easily distracted from reality by such flippancy.


Nice try.




1) There are something like 2 million muslims in Britain, the overwhelming majority in England. Regardless, the discussion is one of a political philosophy surrounding minorities as opposed to one of population levels. Care to put some meat on the bones of your population level point?

2) My example given around the French state is a fact, and one influencing John Locke's philosophy of the freedom to chase individual initiatives. As is the fact that the French have chosen to ban certain aspects of muslim attire. It is a fact, also, that the British Government have had this discussion and something like 2 MPs of about 600 have called for a ban. All facts. Now of course my view that this is wrapped up in power is my opinion, but you'd be much better served putting forward a counter opinion rather than indulge yourself in the above, which in no way, shape or form amounts to reasoned debate. In my view, tellig someone what to wear is authoritarian in fashion, so, with me being a simple man, I make a step from authoritarianism to power.

"Good Brit boy"? Don't be a prick, son, eh.

Edited to add: I'd be very surprised were the Germans to follow suit, considering Kant's philosophy is enshrined in their constitution.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 4/14/2011 12:31:41 PM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 12:51:47 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline



"Care to put some meat on the bones of your population level point?"

What? Just because you are too stupid to even do this much?


Here it is for you, even though any objective observer and reader of history would find no surprise in this at all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

to extract the relevant information for your stupid lazy ass;

                    Muslim Population                                                                                           Muslim Percentage of Population

France            3,554,000                                                                                                                6%

Germany        4,026,000                                                                                                                 4%

UK                  1,647,000                                                                                                                 2.7%



"As is the fact that the French have chosen to ban certain aspects of muslim attire"

As is a fact that they chose to ban ostentatious representations of any particular religion more than 6 years ago when they prohibited the wearing of crosses and yarmulkes and burqas in public shcools.


Get a clue, get a life, and your French bashing plays to deaf ears outside your own country.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/14/2011 12:52:13 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:06:01 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


"Care to put some meat on the bones of your population level point?"

What? Just because you are too stupid to even do this much?


Here it is for you, even though any objective observer and reader of history would find no surprise in this at all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

to extract the relevant information for your stupid lazy ass;

                    Muslim Population                                                                                           Muslim Percentage of Population

France            3,554,000                                                                                                                6%

Germany        4,026,000                                                                                                                 4%

UK                  1,647,000                                                                                                                 2.7%




Nice work, although only marginally related to my point and as such ultimately futile.

I asked for an explanation, i.e. what on earth does the size of France's muslim population have to do with my post? the one to which you replied with population stats. You may as well have offered a thesis on sheep movements in 13th century Belgium such is the relevancy.

For some reason known only to you, you simply offered stats to repeat a point you'd made previously, one I didn't question but rather asked for an explanation of its relevance to my post.

You can do better second time around, Edwynn.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:21:01 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: I'd be very surprised were the Germans to follow suit, considering Kant's philosophy is enshrined in their constitution.


After the debate on here I decided to check the progress at home in regards to the fact if crosses remain in classrooms or not...as here it was demanded to be taken off:

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100424-26753.html#

According to my mother this debate is still not decided as one judge decides this way, another judge that way...so for now we still have to sort out other issues

edited to add:

it seems that strasbourg made a decision now about crucifixes in classrooms in europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/18/european-court-human-rights-crucifixes-allowed?CMP=twt_iph

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 4/14/2011 1:27:06 PM >

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:30:49 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: I'd be very surprised were the Germans to follow suit, considering Kant's philosophy is enshrined in their constitution.


After the debate on here I decided to check the progress at home in regards to the fact if crosses remain in classrooms or not...as here it was demanded to be taken off:

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100424-26753.html#

According to my mother this debate is still not decided as one judge decides this way, another judge that way...so for now we still have to sort out other issues

edited to add:

it seems that strassbourg made a decision now about crucifixes in classrooms in europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/18/european-court-human-rights-crucifixes-allowed?CMP=twt_iph



I'm surprised it's even being discussed. Individual expression, or in Kant's terms happiness, is at the forefront of the German constitution, so I'm not sure why they'd want to go against this.

Either way, it's bollocks, someone wants to cover her face, so what? We communicate without even seeing a face: telephone and e-mail.

It's wrong and bullying of the worst kind.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:32:56 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


That is so cute.

Trying to move the goal posts and then attempting to disguise it by craft of telling the other party that you actually meant something different than what you actually said.


How about if I just say that France is the worst mutherf#cker on this Earth, and we just go from there?


I'm used to taking baby steps with those who need it.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/14/2011 1:34:14 PM >

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:35:53 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




That is so cute.

Trying to move the goal posts and then attempting to disguise it by craft of telling the other party that you actually meant something different than what you actually said.


How about if I just say that France is the worst mutherf#cker on the Earth, and we just go from there.


I'm used to taking baby steps with those who need it.






Edwynn, dear fellow, go back to post 106, consider my point and consider your response.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:47:53 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: I'd be very surprised were the Germans to follow suit, considering Kant's philosophy is enshrined in their constitution.


After the debate on here I decided to check the progress at home in regards to the fact if crosses remain in classrooms or not...as here it was demanded to be taken off:

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100424-26753.html#

According to my mother this debate is still not decided as one judge decides this way, another judge that way...so for now we still have to sort out other issues

edited to add:

it seems that strassbourg made a decision now about crucifixes in classrooms in europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/18/european-court-human-rights-crucifixes-allowed?CMP=twt_iph



I'm surprised it's even being discussed. Individual expression, or in Kant's terms happiness, is at the forefront of the German constitution, so I'm not sure why they'd want to go against this.

Either way, it's bollocks, someone wants to cover her face, so what? We communicate without even seeing a face: telephone and e-mail.

It's wrong and bullying of the worst kind.



When it goes to the length that criminals manage to leave the UK after committing murder here then it certainly isn't handled correctly IMO...

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:53:41 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

I have read through the entirety of all the posts here.

You yourself have either neglected to do likewise, or just as likely, failed to grasp certain pertinent points contained therein.

Forget your own ass-showing in post 106, read (and comprehend, heaven forbid) the valuable contributions of others, who have already addressed your imposing but simplistic concerns in every way.


I can't say it any better than some of the other contributors to this subject, and I find it unlikely that you would be further enlightened by further efforts in that regard.


If you want to claim victory in this discussion because I did not succeed in penetrating the thickness of skull at issue here, then I think you have it. People explaining it much better than I did found no greater success, so consider yourself the champ.




(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 1:58:22 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: I'd be very surprised were the Germans to follow suit, considering Kant's philosophy is enshrined in their constitution.


After the debate on here I decided to check the progress at home in regards to the fact if crosses remain in classrooms or not...as here it was demanded to be taken off:

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100424-26753.html#

According to my mother this debate is still not decided as one judge decides this way, another judge that way...so for now we still have to sort out other issues

edited to add:

it seems that strassbourg made a decision now about crucifixes in classrooms in europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/18/european-court-human-rights-crucifixes-allowed?CMP=twt_iph



I'm surprised it's even being discussed. Individual expression, or in Kant's terms happiness, is at the forefront of the German constitution, so I'm not sure why they'd want to go against this.

Either way, it's bollocks, someone wants to cover her face, so what? We communicate without even seeing a face: telephone and e-mail.

It's wrong and bullying of the worst kind.



When it goes to the length that criminals manage to leave the UK after committing murder here then it certainly isn't handled correctly IMO...


Separate issues.

Criminals are subject to a court of law.

Someone wearing head wear/dress is not by default a criminal in England (thankfully).

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 2:46:14 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: I'd be very surprised were the Germans to follow suit, considering Kant's philosophy is enshrined in their constitution.


After the debate on here I decided to check the progress at home in regards to the fact if crosses remain in classrooms or not...as here it was demanded to be taken off:

http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100424-26753.html#

According to my mother this debate is still not decided as one judge decides this way, another judge that way...so for now we still have to sort out other issues

edited to add:

it seems that strassbourg made a decision now about crucifixes in classrooms in europe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/18/european-court-human-rights-crucifixes-allowed?CMP=twt_iph



I'm surprised it's even being discussed. Individual expression, or in Kant's terms happiness, is at the forefront of the German constitution, so I'm not sure why they'd want to go against this.

Either way, it's bollocks, someone wants to cover her face, so what? We communicate without even seeing a face: telephone and e-mail.

It's wrong and bullying of the worst kind.



When it goes to the length that criminals manage to leave the UK after committing murder here then it certainly isn't handled correctly IMO...


Separate issues.

Criminals are subject to a court of law.

Someone wearing head wear/dress is not by default a criminal in England (thankfully).


yes it does not make them to a criminal and in that instance it is a different matter, but as stated by others before there are expectations of others to remove helmets and whatever else when they enter banks or stores or whatever and quite frankly IMO the same should apply to the veil. So IMO whilst I don't mind it to be accepted I can do understand when now france tries to make their point (whatever that point is, though) and believe that there should be more reasons where our rules should also apply to them. If it is expected to remove helm etc to go into bank and store then quite frankly that applies to the veil as well as it, as stated before already, is not required by the koran. Therefore respect to the veil fine, but respect to the rules from the western society certainly as well.

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 3:09:04 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


yes it does not make them to a criminal and in that instance it is a different matter



What wearing something round the head? Not in this country.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


but as stated by others before there are expectations of others to remove helmets and whatever else when they enter banks or stores or whatever




Isn't the ban in France a blanket ban?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


and believe that there should be more reasons where our rules should also apply to them.



Our rules do apply to them. In England, you can walk down the street wearing pretty much whatever you want, and so can English muslims.

And your rules aren't my rules. You may be Western, but the way you're talking here you may as well come from another planet. I would rather die than tell some woman walking down the street minding her own business that I don't like her what she wears and she should remove said item.

Personally, I prefer muslims to people who want to dictate to them when wearing clothes should never be in the sphere of the law.

Has it ever occured to you why fashion scenes such as Punk sprang out of this country? why we have given so much to the world? In part because we allow people a certain amount of freedom, which enables innovation.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 4:31:23 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn





"Care to put some meat on the bones of your population level point?"

What? Just because you are too stupid to even do this much?


Here it is for you, even though any objective observer and reader of history would find no surprise in this at all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

to extract the relevant information for your stupid lazy ass;

                   Muslim Population                                                                                           Muslim Percentage of Population

France            3,554,000                                                                                                                6%

Germany        4,026,000                                                                                                                 4%

UK                  1,647,000                                                                                                                 2.7%



"As is the fact that the French have chosen to ban certain aspects of muslim attire"

As is a fact that they chose to ban ostentatious representations of any particular religion more than 6 years ago when they prohibited the wearing of crosses and yarmulkes and burqas in public shcools.


Get a clue, get a life, and your French bashing plays to deaf ears outside your own country.



I cant speak for other countries but your figure for the UK is ten years out of date. That was the figure obtained from the 2011 census, last months census ( 2011 ) will give a more accurate figure. NG`s estimate of 2 million is nearer, but probably fall short of the true number.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 4:38:56 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

When it goes to the length that criminals manage to leave the UK after committing murder here then it certainly isn't handled correctly IMO...


I only know of one case where this has happened here, but for arguments sake lets say that it was one hundred cases. That doesnt make it right to pass a law covering a large proportion of the population.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) - 4/14/2011 6:19:47 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline



quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn


"Care to put some meat on the bones of your population level point?"

What? Just because you are too stupid to even do this much?


Here it is for you, even though any objective observer and reader of history would find no surprise in this at all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population

to extract the relevant information for your stupid lazy ass;

             Muslim Population                                                                                           Muslim Percentage of Population

France            3,554,000                                                                                                                6%

Germany        4,026,000                                                                                                                 4%

UK                  1,647,000                                                                                                                 2.7%



"As is the fact that the French have chosen to ban certain aspects of muslim attire"

As is a fact that they chose to ban ostentatious representations of any particular religion more than 6 years ago when they prohibited the wearing of crosses and yarmulkes and burqas in public shcools.


Get a clue, get a life, and your French bashing plays to deaf ears outside your own country.



I cant speak for other countries but your figure for the UK is ten years out of date. That was the figure obtained from the 2011 census, last months census ( 2011 ) will give a more accurate figure. NG`s estimate of 2 million is nearer, but probably fall short of the true number.



The proper revision of such latest would undoubtedly vault the UK into the 7% of population zone, thereby restructuring the entire argument and making Britain right yet again. Or did you actually read the right side of the columns and ascertain the actual relevance of whatever the individual numbers, any of which are out of date on the following day? Or are you then saying too that the other countries' numbers stood still while Britain's numbers increased? Or that you have half a clue as to the gist of what is being said at all?


Honestly, you are better than this.


And as to your 'large proportion of the population' comment, ...

In the first place, less than 2,000 people actually affected by this law notwithstanding, even that number is certainly less than the number of people affected by the public school ban of all public religious imposition upon others enacted years ago already.


In the second place, I do not welcome having somebody else's god shoved in my face at every opportunity just because I'm at the grocery store. I've already been through this crap years ago with christians, and if you expect me to abstain from repulsion of public display of other people's idiocy just because of a different name attached to it you delude yourself.










Viva la France.
















< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/14/2011 6:53:37 PM >

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: France bans face covering veil (burqa) Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125