An ethical issue.

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

An ethical issue.

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> An ethical issue.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 7:11:47 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

I have been increasingly bothered by the growing tendency in politics to spread bold faced lies. Obama is of course the target of most of them - the lies about him being a Muslim, a noncitizen, the death panels, etc. The plain and simple truth is that fact checking is becoming a lost art, and that lies are much more effective than the truth.

Kyl is the latest liar, with his whopper that abortion is 90% of what Planned Parenthood does. http://www.collarchat.com/m_3633945/tm.htm

Colbert has since ridiculed him in such a way as to wound Kyl by making it impossible for anyone to take him seriously.

That said, what Colbert is doing to Kyl could effectively end the career of any politician. It's not as bad as spreading lies about him maliciously, but it's pretty effective. While I support what Colbert is doing and hope that this will serve as a disincentive for future pols to pull statistics and facts out of their asses, the power of ridicule like this worries me should it ever become abused...

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

Post #: 1

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 10:40:56 AM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

A lie makes it around the world before the truth gets out of bed in the morning.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 2

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 11:10:33 AM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

The two things that worked against Kyl was 1) The Facts and 2) Willingness to make them known.

What is more surprising then some US Senator completely lying about the facts of the matter, is that those around him, see that he did nothing wrong. To some extent Democrats can be blamed, but they are on the opposite side of the aisle. No, its Republicans, who already share both a history and attitude for misrepresenting the truth and fact of an issue/matter to the general public. Even worst, are the folks who then reelect these folks back to their seat.

In the scope of saying untruthful stuff, Sen. Kyl may have said something really bad, but its a 'one time thing'. Rep. Michelle Bachmann on the other hand, spews unfactual and complete lies (not to mention just getting facts wrong) at a decent clip. Who in the Republican Party will hold her accountable to her words and actions?

Likewise, given this woman's words and actions, and the fact she was recently re-elected. I have to conduct that her district is made up of total idiots. Sen Kyl's district should just be informed of the level of ignorance their Senator displayed to the nation.

BTW, when was the last time we say Republicans being ethical on any issue?

< Message edited by joether -- 4/14/2011 11:11:01 AM >

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 3

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 11:32:18 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Two things come into play when I hear lies.

1) Did the person know they were lying?

Thats important. If someone says 86%, but meant 68%, then I will accept that they had a dyslexic moment. If someone says one thousand, instead of ten thousand, again, benefit of a doubt, they dropped a zero somewhere. But, in my opinion, if you are arguing to take something away from so many people, you should have your facts straight, documented, and set in stone.

I cant give him this benefit of the doubt. 90% is no where close to 3%, no dyslexia will give you that number, no dropped zero, no typo, nothing can explain it.

2) The reaction after the lie is caught.

If they fess up and admit it was an error, then I may buy into that. But to state he gave an exact figure, then didnt intend for it to be factual....

Sorry... he is getting what he deserves.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 4

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 2:34:24 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

What Taz said, and that goes for any politician, independent, lib and con or however they announce themselves.
Its about bloody time actually.
"not intended to be a factual statement"
I hope that Kyl loses all credibility and ends up as a janitor where his lies wont hurt womens rights

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 5

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 2:50:41 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

the growing tendency in politics to spread bold faced lies. Obama is of course the target of most of them...

Some people think he's not doing bad himself...

I rarely heard a speech by a president so shallow, so hyper-partisan and so intellectually dishonest ~Charles Krauthammer
The speech he chose to deliver was dishonest even by modern political standards ~Wall Street Journal

K.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 6

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 3:02:38 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I have heard right wing media claims that Obama has lied in speeches, even one congressman did it during a speech.

However when called on it, all they can provide more right wing propaganda which is nothing but lies and innuendo. Can we say "Death Panels?"

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 7

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 3:08:26 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

Ive never heard anyone say
"it was not intended to be a factual statement" in reply to a statement
mind you I dont discount it being said again

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 8

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 4:58:49 PM

Kirata

Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have heard right wing media claims that Obama has lied in speeches...

If you're going to toss Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist Charles Krauthammer and the Wall Street Journal into the "right-wing media" wastebasket, then your definition of right-wing media is nothing more or less than anyone who disagrees with you on anything, anytime, anywhere.

K.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 9

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 5:27:07 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

I didn't express myself well.

Lying is a very effective tactic. Reducing someone to a figure of fun is devastatingly effective as well. I'm wondering if the response to a lie might be overkill. Not in this case (he clearly deserved it, and he's about to retire anyway), but it could be used to knock off a Presidential candidate easily.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Kirata)

Post #: 10

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 5:57:50 PM

luckydawg

Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline

for instance a lie that a person was AWOL?

_____________________________

I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 11

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 6:33:17 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether Rep. Michelle Bachmann on the other hand, spews unfactual and complete lies (not to mention just getting facts wrong) at a decent clip. Who in the Republican Party will hold her accountable to her words and actions?

Likewise, given this woman's words and actions, and the fact she was recently re-elected. I have to conduct that her district is made up of total idiots.

Pretty much. Her district is only a few miles from my house, and I interact with these fucking morons every day. They're the some of the stupidest sacks of shit I've ever met in my life. Every one I talk to genuinely believes - to an absolute certainty - that every single thing she says is the gospel truth. You simply can't tell them otherwise. They go blankfaced and glassy-eyed, and start stuttering meaningless phrases like "uhh... duh....." and "yeah, but, uhhhh...." The TV stations here regularly do "fact check" segments on her latest round of lies, and invariably get inundated with e-mails from Bachmanheads accusing them of conducting a witch hunt.

Complete fucking imbeciles. But then again, what would you expect from anyone stupid enough to vote for that ignorant Nazi whore in the first place?

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 12

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/14/2011 6:55:18 PM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive never heard anyone say
"it was not intended to be a factual statement" in reply to a statement
mind you I dont discount it being said again

How about running a "Liar of the Month" Award? With a special barrel of pork for the annual winner? Presented at a gala dinner with non-stop mockery of the idiot who won? All on prime time TV hosted by Colbert? Would that work?

What ideas are around to ensure that politicians tell us the truth? How can we make it plain to them that we don't want any more lies (or WMDs)?

Theoretically in a democracy, we can pass judgement on their honesty (among other things) at elections. The media is supposed to keep them honest too but look at Faux News .... just as crooked as the politicians! So I doubt if any one could claim that the system as it stands is sufficient disincentive.

_____________________________

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 13

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 10:50:23 AM

imperatrixx

Posts: 903
Joined: 3/29/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I didn't express myself well.

Lying is a very effective tactic. Reducing someone to a figure of fun is devastatingly effective as well. I'm wondering if the response to a lie might be overkill. Not in this case (he clearly deserved it, and he's about to retire anyway), but it could be used to knock off a Presidential candidate easily.

Two words.

Howard Dean.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 14

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 12:54:54 PM

joether

Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I didn't express myself well.

Lying is a very effective tactic. Reducing someone to a figure of fun is devastatingly effective as well. I'm wondering if the response to a lie might be overkill. Not in this case (he clearly deserved it, and he's about to retire anyway), but it could be used to knock off a Presidential candidate easily.

Two words.

Howard Dean.

Yeah, cus Mr. Dean has lied on the scale and depth of the average GOP/Tea Party offical or presidental hopeful? If Mr. Dean's lies were like apples, I'd have a hard time filling one barrel. For Republicans, I could go into the apple business with $10 Billion net profit a year. And thanks to them, propably keep 99.999% from taxes too...

(in reply to imperatrixx)

Post #: 15

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 12:58:14 PM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

and what the definition of is- IS>

(in reply to joether)

Post #: 16

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 1:08:37 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ive never heard anyone say
"it was not intended to be a factual statement" in reply to a statement
mind you I dont discount it being said again

How about running a "Liar of the Month" Award? With a special barrel of pork for the annual winner? Presented at a gala dinner with non-stop mockery of the idiot who won? All on prime time TV hosted by Colbert? Would that work?

What ideas are around to ensure that politicians tell us the truth? How can we make it plain to them that we don't want any more lies (or WMDs)?

Theoretically in a democracy, we can pass judgement on their honesty (among other things) at elections. The media is supposed to keep them honest too but look at Faux News .... just as crooked as the politicians! So I doubt if any one could claim that the system as it stands is sufficient disincentive.

I cant keep up Tweak, theres so many of them, altho I think it would be perfect for Colbert to do,
and I would tune in for sure.
When the facts are out there and its an obvious lie, like Kyl's , put him in a hockey goal, spreadeagled and then let the top ten NHL teams shoot pucks at the goal for three periods
Yeah Im seriously into the playoffs this year...
Id pay to watch that !!!

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 17

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 1:20:06 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Hockey ? Pffftt,not even an American sport...it went away on strike once,and nobody even noticed

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 18

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 1:25:16 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Pst, mike. Tell that to the Penguin fans here in Pittsburgh!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

Post #: 19

RE: An ethical issue. - 4/15/2011 1:30:12 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Why would I deign to converse with someone silly enough to live in Pittsburgh.....have you ever seen their baseball team play?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> An ethical issue.

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.094