RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body"

RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:28:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I'm still trying to figure out why someone would want to go into rehab if it wasn't illegal to get high. Why not just keep getting high? Getting high come with costs ,above and beyond the legal.Looking into a mirror and seeing death is/can be disconcerting. Trust me on this.

tazzygirl -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:28:05 PM)
I did, mike, and thats what I meant by "cute"... referencing the song. As far as the other, I no longer care what she says.

BitaTruble -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:29:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Now, if you wish to have an... how did you put it?... adult conversation instead of belittling, then lets have one. The thread you referenced had a link to a Washington post article which can't be found. As it's quite obvious you did not read the links which I provided given how quickly you posted after I provided them, I don't see how it is possible to have a conversation on the subject with you. We obviously have different standards when it comes to both sarcasm and adult conversation, so I will pass on engaging further with you on this subject.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:30:11 PM)
quote: In light of the Mellencamp lyrics that were offered earlier,I thought I might offer this for consideration.... i love that song! and yes drugs do cause enormous misery, but that isn't the issue. if i chose to live a life of fleeting moments of drug-induced euphoria amidst squalor and misery, surely that is my business and nobody else's. there is nobody here arguing that drugs are a wise choice, so continuing to point out that they are a bad idea is neither useful or germane. the issue is if one should be allowed to do them regardless of their beneficialness or lack there of. hannah lynn

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:32:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I did, mike, and thats what I meant by "cute"... referencing the song. As far as the other, I no longer care what she says. You keep saying that, yet you keep coming back to take shots at her... might want to ponder that for a moment or two.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:36:18 PM)
quote: Rudeness is unbecoming no matter the age. you are correct, of course, but i have never claimed to be either polite or becoming. surely you don't see her remarks as anything but pointless sniping at me. she is a bitter woman and a sore loser. its sad, but it is what it is. hannah lynn

tazzygirl -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:37:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I'm still trying to figure out why someone would want to go into rehab if it wasn't illegal to get high. Why not just keep getting high? From the article... Drugs in Portugal are still illegal. But here’s what Portugal did: It changed the law so that users are sent to counseling and sometimes treatment instead of criminal courts and prison. The switch from drugs as a criminal issue to a public health one was aimed at preventing users from going underground. In Portugal today, outreach health workers provide addicts with fresh needles, swabs, little dishes to cook up the injectable mixture, disinfectant and condoms. But anyone caught with even a small amount of drugs is automatically sent to what is known as a Dissuasion Committee for counseling. The committees include legal experts, psychologists and social workers. Failure to turn up can result in fines, mandatory treatment or other sanctions. In serious cases, the panel recommends the user be sent to a treatment center. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/26/portugals-drug-policy-pays-off-us-eyes-lessons/

tazzygirl -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:40:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Now, if you wish to have an... how did you put it?... adult conversation instead of belittling, then lets have one. The thread you referenced had a link to a Washington post article which can't be found. As it's quite obvious you did not read the links which I provided given how quickly you posted after I provided them, I don't see how it is possible to have a conversation on the subject with you. We obviously have different standards when it comes to both sarcasm and adult conversation, so I will pass on engaging further with you on this subject. The link is in the post above this time. I had to google to find it. Your link to Portugal I did pull it, and immediately realized it was very similar to the one I posted to you... which if you had checked, you would have discovered.

HannahLynHeather -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:41:04 PM)
how is any of that relevant to the question in the op? hannah lynn

slvemike4u -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:41:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather quote: In light of the Mellencamp lyrics that were offered earlier,I thought I might offer this for consideration.... i love that song! and yes drugs do cause enormous misery, but that isn't the issue. if i chose to live a life of fleeting moments of drug-induced euphoria amidst squalor and misery, surely that is my business and nobody else's. there is nobody here arguing that drugs are a wise choice, so continuing to point out that they are a bad idea is neither useful or germane. the issue is if one should be allowed to do them regardless of their beneficialness or lack there of. hannah lynn Okay ,so you concede that they are destructive but insist that folks should be free to choose a path of self destruction...am I correct so far? Now as one goes down this path of self destruction is there or is there not a societal cost. Now be careful here....there are only two possible answers...Should you be honest and admit that there is such a cost....I will request an explanation as to why this should be ignored . Should you choose to answer no....than you have conceded that your argument,when conducted with intellectual honesty does not stand up to a critical argument. So now you are in a box of your own making.much like addiction,you claim that one should have the freedom to do as one pleases...but you can not make an honest claim that the cost of such freedoms is solely personal...it is undeniably societal....thus it is indeed within society's purview to curtail such behaviors. I myself could imagine decriminalization for the user...while criminal charges remain in effect for the profiteer of the poisons.The cost of diversion into treatment is on a par,if not cheaper than incarceration anyway. But legalization is indeed a "bridge too far"

tazzygirl -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 4:41:13 PM)
quote: You keep saying that, yet you keep coming back to take shots at her... might want to ponder that for a moment or two. Thanks for the advice. Im sure you wont mind if I dont take it considering some of your past postings yourself. [;)]

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 5:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: You keep saying that, yet you keep coming back to take shots at her... might want to ponder that for a moment or two. Thanks for the advice. Im sure you wont mind if I dont take it considering some of your past postings yourself. [;)] I think you might have missed the point I was trying to make, Tazz. But I'm not going to press it. If for some reason it makes you happy to keep banging away at this, have at it. It's just not coming across the way I think you think it is, that's all.

tazzygirl -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 5:06:17 PM)
Im done, Panda. I gave my opinion, I stated my case, I think Portugal has the right of it...

HannahLynHeather -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 5:14:07 PM)
thanks for the detailed reply/query. quote: Okay ,so you concede that they are destructive but insist that folks should be free to choose a path of self destruction...am I correct so far? 100% quote: Now as one goes down this path of self destruction is there or is there not a societal cost. there is a societal cost. but that does not outweigh the right of the individual. the cost to society at large is not a factor. it is my life. it is my choice. as i pointed out, society at large is under no obligation to rescue me (or anybody else) from their unwise decisions. let the junkies die. quote: So now you are in a box of your own making there is no box. an artificial entity like "society" does not have the right to abridge my rights in the name of defending itself. society is a non thing, it is an artificial construct and thus has no rights whatsoever. society does not actually exist. it is a mental concept created to facilitate the smooth interactions of the various segments of a population. it has no rights and no it has no authority other than what you, as an individual, chose to give it. quote: but you can not make an honest claim that the cost of such freedoms is solely personal...it is undeniably societal the cost to society of my decisions is not relevant to the right to make those decisions. the cost to society are something separate, and does not enter into the question of individual rights. if my choices impact others, then by all means i should be held responsible for that and for any restitution, but again, that is a separate thing from my right to make that choice. quote: thus it is indeed within society's purview to curtail such behaviors. nobody, individually or collectively, has the right to protect me from my own foolishness should i choose to travel a self destructive path. it is simply nobody's business but my own. hannah lynn

imperatrixx -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 5:15:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I'm still trying to figure out why someone would want to go into rehab if it wasn't illegal to get high. Why not just keep getting high? Yeah, and while we're at it, what's up with those Alcoholics Anonymous programs? It's not illegal. Why not just keep getting drunk?

slvemike4u -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 5:44:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather thanks for the detailed reply/query. quote: Okay ,so you concede that they are destructive but insist that folks should be free to choose a path of self destruction...am I correct so far? 100% So far so good quote: Now as one goes down this path of self destruction is there or is there not a societal cost. there is a societal cost. but that does not outweigh the right of the individual. the cost to society at large is not a factor. it is my life. it is my choice. as i pointed out, society at large is under no obligation to rescue me (or anybody else) from their unwise decisions. let the junkies die. Whether or not you see it as societies obligation....in practice it is in fact an obligation....an example...And I will use you just as an example,not to suggest that you would find yourself in such a situation....Okay? You are lying in the street,suffering from some drug induced condition or other...a passerby call an ambulance.The ambulance driver can not nor will not attempt to ascertain your ability to pay for his service ,he will simply do his job and scoop you up.Now in the emergency room you will again be attended to prior to anyone ascertaining your ability to pay for services....they bring you back from the brink of death,You did not request such services...but you,as a member of a society certainly had every expectation of receiving these services quote: So now you are in a box of your own making there is no box. an artificial entity like "society" does not have the right to abridge my rights in the name of defending itself. society is a non thing, it is an artificial construct and thus has no rights whatsoever. society does not actually exist. it is a mental concept created to facilitate the smooth interactions of the various segments of a population. it has no rights and no it has no authority other than what you, as an individual, chose to give it. Society is not a non-thing,quite the contrary society is in fact nothing more than the collection of all of those individuals living in close proximity(and given how small the world is becoming there is little choice but to be a part of some society or another)in order to facilitate all of those individuals co-existing a set of rules is agreed to by the majority...while as far as it can, respecting the rights of the individuals that make up the greater collective.Those rights must of necessity go only so far.One persons individual rights can not abridge another's.So off the top we have,as members of a society acknowledged that our freedoms are not absolute.Now a healthy society takes that a little further and enacts laws that abridge the right to engage in certain self destructive behaviors.....you do not need to agree with this societal right,you do not need to adhere....but a sensible person will acknowledge societies right to pass such laws .Failure to acknowledge this in no way precludes you from being subject to said laws. quote: but you can not make an honest claim that the cost of such freedoms is solely personal...it is undeniably societal the cost to society of my decisions is not relevant to the right to make those decisions. the cost to society are something separate, and does not enter into the question of individual rights. if my choices impact others, then by all means i should be held responsible for that and for any restitution, but again, that is a separate thing from my right to make that choice. You know I misjudged you....................you are a bit craftier than I had earlier assumed.I won't make that mistake again.Yes you have the "right" in so far as till you actually commit an act you have broken no law.So you have the right to slit your wrist...society than has the right,and the responsibility to than force you into treatment.You have the right to purchase illegal drugs on the street...and an undercover officer than has the right to arrest you.....it is amazingly simple...I don't know how I missed it. quote: thus it is indeed within society's purview to curtail such behaviors. nobody, individually or collectively, has the right to protect me from my own foolishness should i choose to travel a self destructive path. it is simply nobody's business but my own. Already answered.....foolishness comes in many stripes....most ,you are right society has no recourse to try and save you from your foolish action.Should you decide to wear stripes /horizontal as a blouse.....with vertically striped pants....well have at it.I will try not to laugh too hard. As for the rest of it I have answered it to the best of my ability...the Yankees are playing and it is my right to actually watch it rather than continue this exercise....nite,nite. hannah lynn

HannahLynHeather -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 6:27:54 PM)
thanks again for the reasoned replies, and for actually addressing my points. i really do appreciate it quote: but you,as a member of a society certainly had every expectation of receiving these services but i do not have any such expectation. i have watched to many friends die in back ally ways to believe in fairy tales. quote: a set of rules is agreed to by the majority but not by me. i did not agree to them therefore they do not apply to me. the majority is simply a collection of individuals, and as such have no authority over anybody but themselves. quote: One persons individual rights can not abridge another's.So off the top we have,as members of a society acknowledged that our freedoms are not absolute. this is a contradiction. if my rights cannot be abridged by another's, then how can they be anything but absolute. a right that is limited is a privilege, nothing more. quote: Now a healthy society takes that a little further and enacts laws that abridge the right to engage in certain self destructive behaviors..... no, this is an unhealthy society based on the unnatural assumption that there is something beyond the individual. there isn't. the individual is the only entity of any importance. the rights of the individual trump everything else. quote: you do not need to agree with this societal right,you do not need to adhere....but a sensible person will acknowledge societies right to pass such laws then by your definition i am not a sensible person, for i not only do not acknowledge any such right on the part of society, i utterly reject it. quote: Failure to acknowledge this in no way precludes you from being subject to said laws. society, or more accurately in this particular case, the state, has no authority over me. i do not recognize its authority. that being said i will not dispute that they have power over me. they can, and have and likely will again, deprive me of my freedom and lock me in a cell. i reject the coercive power of the society/state and refuse to bend to it. and am willing to face the consequences of that stand. quote: You know I misjudged you....................you are a bit craftier than I had earlier assumed.I won't make that mistake again.Yes you have the "right" in so far as till you actually commit an act you have broken no law.So you have the right to slit your wrist...society than has the right,and the responsibility to than force you into treatment.You have the right to purchase illegal drugs on the street...and an undercover officer than has the right to arrest you.....it is amazingly simple...I don't know how I missed it. thank you for the compliment, but there was no craftiness involved. you misunderstood what i said. the laws of the land regarding an act are of no consequence. they are irrelevant as they vary from place to place. in amsterdam they have the right to smoke hash but you don't? how do they have more rights than you, how are you a lesser entity, how are you less deserving of the freedom to live? you aren't. they have no more right than you do, however they happen to live in a place where that particular act is not illegal. therefore, it is clear that legality and rights are not the same thing. in fact they are not connected. the one is about what is yours by virtue of your mere existence, and the other is about the coercive power of an entity with no actual moral right or authority. the police have the power to arrest me, but not the right. thanks again and enjoy the game...go rangers!! just kidding. hannah lynn

thishereboi -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 6:42:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I'm still trying to figure out why someone would want to go into rehab if it wasn't illegal to get high. Why not just keep getting high? Getting high come with costs ,above and beyond the legal.Looking into a mirror and seeing death is/can be disconcerting. Trust me on this. Yes, but would that be enough motivation. I've known a lot of addicts who have gone into treatment due to legal situations they have found themselves in. I can't honestly think of any who said they were quitting because they thought it would kill them. Now I have met many ex smokers who quit for health reasons, but there are a lot more out there who are still puffing away. Myself included. I know if crack could be compared to pot, legalizing pot would not make me want to stop smoking because I know it's bad for me. It would make me want to buy some acreage and start a farm. But that's just me[:)]

HannahLynHeather -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 6:44:14 PM)
quote: I can't honestly think of any who said they were quitting because they thought it would kill them. now you can. i quit for just that reason. hannah lynn

thishereboi -> RE: "A woman has the right to do what she wants with her own body" (4/17/2011 6:45:12 PM)
quote: yes drugs do cause enormous misery, but that isn't the issue. if i chose to live a life of fleeting moments of drug-induced euphoria amidst squalor and misery, surely that is my business and nobody else's. If you were living on an island and not affecting those around you, I would agree. But unfortunately the average addict lives his life in a drug induced fog and it's the innocent people around him that suffer the misery.

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