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ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It seems to me that everyone is trying to get the other side to change their mind, regardless of what side it is.

No. I, as an atheist, just want theist to see that they believe in a deity, or a spirit, or "there must be something" simply because thinking that way feels good. Religion or spirituality is a coping mechanism. The human brain and the universe and whatever is beyond the known universe is amazing and  intriguing enough for me. Even if we were to discover that everything we see was intelligently designed we would then have to search for what designed the designer. It is a mind boggling endeavor and to think you already know is self limiting.I think that the stress of not knowing is too much for some people and that is why spirituality evolved in us.

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
I think that the stress of not knowing is too much for some people and that is why spirituality evolved in us.

This statement indicates and / or suggests that 1. You do not comprehend the evolution algorithm, and 2. apparently the spirituality function is lacking in you, and 3. apparently the spirituality awareness gen occurs in two forms: one dominant and the other recessive, which in the latter case results in a rudimentary or totally absent manifestation of the phenotype.

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No. I, as an atheist, just want theist to see that they believe in a deity, or a spirit, or "there must be something" simply because thinking that way feels good. Religion or spirituality is a coping mechanism.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It seems to me that everyone is trying to get the other side to change their mind, regardless of what side it is.

No. I, as an atheist, just want theist to see that they believe in a deity, or a spirit, or "there must be something" simply because thinking that way feels good. Religion or spirituality is a coping mechanism. The human brain and the universe and whatever is beyond the known universe is amazing and  intriguing enough for me. Even if we were to discover that everything we see was intelligently designed we would then have to search for what designed the designer. It is a mind boggling endeavor and to think you already know is self limiting.I think that the stress of not knowing is too much for some people and that is why spirituality evolved in us.

Why do you want them to know that? What possible difference can it make to you whether some guy down the street believes in god or not? Now I can understand the guy down the street wanting you to believe, because he honestly thinks your soul is at risk, but what is the atheist trying to protect the believer from?

Sorry, but you come off just like the holy rollers who have "seen the light" and want to share the good news. Only difference is the message you are preaching and the fact that you don't even offer any "ever after" in your deal. At least with the christians, I have something to look forward to

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ORIGINAL: Rule

I will go out on a limb and speculate that there is a correlation between absence of spiritual awareness and a lack of comprehension.

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I want people to actually think about why stealing, murder, rape etc is wrong. Not because it is going to displease some imaginary being in the sky, but because it is counter productive to the human race reaching it's full potential.

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I'm hoping to reach people who are on the fence. People who are still thinking about the world in a broader sense.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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No. I, as an atheist, just want theist to see that they believe in a deity, or a spirit, or "there must be something" simply because thinking that way feels good. Religion or spirituality is a coping mechanism.

And what gives you the right to 1) make people "see that", 2) declare that its simply because it "feels good" and 3) tell others that it is only a coping mechanism?

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ORIGINAL: bighappygoth39
Absence of spiritual awareness being caused by a mitzvah, I take it?

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Exactly. Everyone's experiences varies. Why are we so quick to discount an experience we have not experienced ourselves?

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I should have chosen my words more carefully. I don't care about the guy down the street specifically. I care about the evolution of society as a whole. I want us to get away from making laws based on something written in a book two thousand years ago.
You do that by keeping religion and state separate. No need to stop religion for that.


I want people to actually think about why stealing, murder, rape etc is wrong. Not because it is going to displease some imaginary being in the sky, but because it is counter productive to the human race reaching it's full potential. .
I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that most of us already know that. And I figured it out with out the help of an athiest or theist. Imagine that

I'm interested in getting that kind of thinking into the collective consciousness. I don't think I'm going change anyone's mind who is fully invested in spirituality. I'm hoping to reach people who are on the fence. People who are still thinking about the world in a broader sense.
Yea, good luck with that. Maybe you guys could give the tv evangelical route a try. It seems to have worked for some in the past.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
How is it that god chooses who sees the miracles? Surely the ones he has to convince are those with no faith?

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
I've never really understood this idea that you have to have faith before you start seeing miracles happen around you.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Going back to before anyone knew of religion or god there had to be someone with no faith that suddenly witnessed a miracle. So why is it different now?

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The more likely evolution of faith is that people needed to make sense of the world around them, built up this idea of the creator and then started to see everything around them as a miracle.

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ORIGINAL: Rule
The Divine never chooses: that would be interfering with free will and subvert the purpose of Creation.

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ORIGINAL: Rule
Neither does the Divine care whether some organism is a bacterium, a blade of grass, a religious nut or an atheist: the Divine is impartial, as to be partial would be interfering with free will and subvert the purpose of Creation. It is partial to communication, though - and it so happens that a human being - whether a religious nut or an atheist - is better at communication than a bacterium or a blade of grass.

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ORIGINAL: Rule
To have faith is to communicate with the Divine. Lost your keys? Have faith that you will find them and you are likely to. Or do not have faith and buy a new lock.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
The Divine's prime directive?

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
If the Divine don't care about the organism then the Divine could save themselves a lot of time.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
That statement is absurd.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
Are you really going to attribute someone finding their keys with the Divine?

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You have no credible shred of evidence that they are wrong...

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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I should have chosen my words more carefully. I don't care about the guy down the street specifically. I care about the evolution of society as a whole. I want us to get away from making laws based on something written in a book two thousand years ago.
You do that by keeping religion and state separate. No need to stop religion for that.
State and religion is separate (in the U.S) and still laws are influenced by spiritual thinking.


I want people to actually think about why stealing, murder, rape etc is wrong. Not because it is going to displease some imaginary being in the sky, but because it is counter productive to the human race reaching it's full potential. .
I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that most of us already know that. And I figured it out with out the help of an athiest or theist. Imagine that
I don't know that you know that. And, I certainly don't know that "most" people know that.

I'm interested in getting that kind of thinking into the collective consciousness. I don't think I'm going change anyone's mind who is fully invested in spirituality. I'm hoping to reach people who are on the fence. People who are still thinking about the world in a broader sense.
Yea, good luck with that. Maybe you guys could give the tv evangelical route a try. It seems to have worked for some in the past.
Nope, we'll just keep teaching science, math, ethics, and philosophy. As time goes on religion will fall away on it's own as it is in the process of doing. 

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ORIGINAL: lickenforyou


I want people to actually think about why stealing, murder, rape etc is wrong. Not because it is going to displease some imaginary being in the sky, but because it is counter productive to the human race reaching it's full potential.

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I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that most of us already know that. And I figured it out with out the help of an athiest or theist. Imagine that

I don't know that you know that. And, I certainly don't know that "most" people know that.

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ORIGINAL: Edwynn

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ORIGINAL: lickenforyou


I want people to actually think about why stealing, murder, rape etc is wrong. Not because it is going to displease some imaginary being in the sky, but because it is counter productive to the human race reaching it's full potential.

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I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that most of us already know that. And I figured it out with out the help of an athiest or theist. Imagine that

I don't know that you know that. And, I certainly don't know that "most" people know that.

Wow. You are one sick f#ck if you actually think that.

I don't know who you grew up around, but I want nothing to do with any of you, suffice to say. You think that people are inherently imbued with worst of intentions? There's another thread devoted to that notion; http://www.collarchat.com/m_3645589/tm.htm


I don't discriminate between religious zealots and atheistic wackos. I have no use for any of it, especially sick f#cks who think that doing harm to others is what we're born with and needs to be 'trained' against, by whatever method.