Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (Full Version)

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Brain -> Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 7:54:59 PM)

Quite an admission by the president and now it's time to do something about it - as if they don't make enough money on Wall Street gambling and speculating.


Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Tuesday blamed speculators for driving gasoline prices higher and straining American consumers, saying there was enough oil in world markets to meet demand.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/19/us-usa-energy-obama-idUSTRE73I5L220110419


US President Barack Obama slammed oil "speculators" for driving up gasoline prices

[image]local://upfiles/392475/C5C73C3C4E4A40B89ECCE71A58495E91.jpg[/image]




tazzygirl -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 7:56:34 PM)

So you are now advocating the President to be able to control the stock market? Think about what you are saying, Brain.




pahunkboy -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 7:59:38 PM)

I thought we seen this show before. 




Sanity -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 8:00:01 PM)


Isnt the president suggesting the same sort of thing Brian is, though?

Think about THAT.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

So you are now advocating the President to be able to control the stock market? Think about what you are saying, Brain.




Brain -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 8:50:32 PM)

Bill Clinton signed the law a Republican Congress passed allowing Wall Street to speculate on oil driving the price of it through the roof. And the Congress and the Senate can pass a law to stop the speculation for Obama to sign.




tazzygirl -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 8:56:30 PM)

From the article....

quote:

Obama said the U.S. government was in a position to investigate unfair speculation.

Two U.S. agencies that investigate potential energy market manipulation -- the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) and Federal Trade Commission (FTC) -- recently agreed to share information on potential probes.


There is a difference between fair and unfair, dont you agree?

U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) is an independent agency of the United States government that regulates futures and option markets.

Seems within their scope, dont you think?

Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is an independent agency of the United States government, established in 1914 by the Federal Trade Commission Act. Its principal mission is the promotion of consumer protection and the elimination and prevention of what regulators perceive to be harmfully anti-competitive business practices, such as coercive monopoly

Again, within their scope.

quote:

"We're going to be monitoring gas stations to make sure there isn't any price gouging that's taking advantage of consumers," Obama said.


Done often in this country. Price gouging is illegal.

quote:

The CFTC is also weighing new rules that would slap "position limits" on big commodity traders that would cap how many futures and related swaps contracts any one company can control. The rules, which have been under debate since commodity prices first surged to records in 2007 and 2008, are aimed at tempering wild price swings.

"There is a Wall Street premium on gas prices today," CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton, a strong advocate for imposing position limits, told Reuters.


Now, if these rules have been under debate since 2007/2008... And even Goldman... which should probably learn to keep their mouths shut... said...

Goldman Sachs, one of the largest investment banks in commodities, warned clients last week that oil prices could correct due to the level of speculative interest currently in the market.

If the agencies had been doing their jobs way back then, the mess of the gas prices with Katrina wouldnt have happened... and we wouldnt be where we are today.

But, I do not see Obama calling for a stifling of the futures or commodities market.

I dont want any President in control of this countries money supply to that extent. However, I do believe laws and regulations should be followed, dont you?




Fellow -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 8:59:25 PM)

Obama is a whiner, ineffective president, not interested in real solutions. Talk is cheap. Why not initiate a global regulation to end energy futures speculation? Only consumers who are using an actual commodity would then be allowed to buy the futures. Speculation is just a parasitic activity, root it out. 




Hillwilliam -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 9:03:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Obama is a whiner, ineffective president, not interested in real solutions. Talk is cheap. Why not initiate a global regulation to end energy futures speculation? Only consumers who are using an actual commodity would then be allowed to buy the futures. Speculation is just a parasitic activity, root it out. 



Wouldn't that be socialism? The government deciding who can buy and sell what and what price would be paid for it?




tazzygirl -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 9:03:53 PM)

Dont they already regulate that to an extent?




Fellow -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 9:20:57 PM)

quote:

Wouldn't that be socialism? The government deciding who can buy and sell what and what price would be paid for it?


No, not socialism or even state capitalism. The government does not decide who is buying, and the price establishes between the consumers and the producers. Unnecessary "middlemen" who sit behind the computers producing nothing of value would be eliminated.




Fellow -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/19/2011 9:28:32 PM)

quote:

Dont they already regulate that to an extent?


No, as much as I know. Also futures speculation is important factor today.
You may check out the graph:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/04/are-oil-prices-driven-by-speculators/




Edwynn -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 12:16:36 AM)

FR

The President is not wanting to control the stock market (crude oil futures are not sold there). A regulatory agency , such as the SEC, can indeed tell somebody what they can and can't buy, at least at certain times (insider trading laws, e.g.), it's not being commie, it's called regulating markets.

Rather than grandstanding and using this very serious problem in a speech, one thing Obama could do is just tell the CFTC to do their job better, i.e. to reverse the non-enforcement of Wendy Gramm when she was head of the agency. On the day before Clinton took office she enacted an energy group's request to allow certain energy futures contracts to to transpire privately and be excluded from the requirement to trade through the regulated NYMEX  exchange. Clinton adroitly averted reversing the situation while in office. Then, again at the last hour, Wendy's husband Phil Gramm inserted a deeply buried paragraph tucked into a 262 page bill that had been already approved, without any possibility for congress to look at it, and then again was able to slip it into a 11,000 page omnibus appropriations bill. So it got signed by Clinton. The law was the The Commodity Futures Trading Act, and the little paragraph tucked in was what later Became known as "The Enron Loophole."

What this did was to legislatively codify the earlier CFTC action, so as to prevent any later president who might have an honest CFTC head to reverse it. This law specifically excluded a whole slew of classifications of futures contracts, swaps, etc. from any oversight by any agency whatsoever, ergo, ultimately completely beyond any President's control at all. So actually, contrary to what I said in the second paragraph, Obama telling the CFTC to do their job better actually wouldn't accomplish a whole lot.

Not only this, the new law also allowed traders to establish their own exchanges which again, unlike NYMEX, would be completely exempt from any regulation or oversight whatsoever. This is how the Intercontinental Exchange came to be. The majority of crude oil futures contracts have taken place on the ICE since 2006. Completely unregulated, and therefore impossible see the intentional manipulation or by whom.

One simple aspect of this not concerning outright manipulation is that all this hot speculation means that a large component of the price of oil is not set by demand for oil, but by the demand for these contracts by speculators. A single contract could be traded hundreds of times. The oil companies have in the last 30 years gotten back into refining and retail selling, so even with out speculating themselves (which they in fact do) they are the beneficiaries of the futures trading related price increase.

As to the FTC's job of preventing anti-competitive mergers, Reagan put in a de-reg commissioner and told him to relax all that. The mergers started right away and have continued ever since. What are now ExonMobil, Chevron, BP, used to be about 15 quite sizable companies. Be serious folks, when the two largest, Exon and Mobil were allowed to merge, you should have known that; the FTC is a joke, and; this could not mean anything good down the road.



So no, much of the speculation is not under any agency's purview, and the breaking up of mergers is much much harder than preventing them in the first place. Which is to say 'not gonna happen' with an agency that keeps allowing them.



There is so much more to this.








Edwynn -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 12:26:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

quote:

Wouldn't that be socialism? The government deciding who can buy and sell what and what price would be paid for it?


No, not socialism or even state capitalism. The government does not decide who is buying, and the price establishes between the consumers and the producers. Unnecessary "middlemen" who sit behind the computers producing nothing of value would be eliminated.




Exactly. Contracts between the people selling actual product and those taking actual delivery.






rulemylife -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 12:34:31 AM)

Nevermind, I misread.  Too late at night.





Termyn8or -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 12:39:08 AM)

FR

People used to bitch about OPEC and now it's the speculators. It's the same thing. You can be sitting on the ground or sitting with a piece of paper now, it doesn't really matter.

If I were hooked up with oil producing entities, and speculators you know what I would do ? I would strike a deal of sorts, like a cooperation whereby we make a hell of alot more money by controlling production and working in concert with each other, drive the price of our commodity to whatevwer the market can bear, and beyond. Because it is a necessity. They have no choice. What would you do ? Get rich now.

T^T




SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 12:39:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Dont they already regulate that to an extent?
If they're regulating it, they're doing a horrendous job of it. M




Edwynn -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 12:51:52 AM)



FR

As pointed out in the above post, the majority of oil futures contracts are traded on the ICE, which is exempt from any oversight whatsoever. The CFTC and the FTC only have information  on what they are able to actually regulate in the first place to actually share.


But they're doing a terrible job of regulating what they are not even allowed to regulate ...




Not the best night for reading comprehension here, I see.







joether -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 1:07:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Dont they already regulate that to an extent?
If they're regulating it, they're doing a horrendous job of it. M


Should look up who removed many of those regulations. Their the folks that dont like having to be responsible when things screw up. In fact, these are the folks that want less and less regulations, rules, and inspectors. It interferes with their profits. Oh, as they hate too Unions....

That give you a hint to whose the problem?




Sanity -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 6:41:13 AM)


Fast Reply -

If Obama werent such a tool and a fool he would have half a clue, he just isnt smart enough to realize that most of the speculation revolves around him and his anti-energy policies

From DRUDGE this morning:

OIL CONTINUES SUPER SPIKE...
AMERICAN AIRLINES posts huge loss on fuel costs...

$5 GAS HITS DC





mnottertail -> RE: Obama blames speculators for rising fuel prices (4/20/2011 6:46:43 AM)

That is laughable.  So when the oil speculation was rampant during the Bush terms, it was pro-energy policy?

I am awaiting some credible proof of an anti-energy policy, but none is forthcoming.

Although, I will say that the US is the only nation in the world without a planned energy policy.

Any unreasonable fear that is exploitable will be exploited by speculators, that is the nature of the beast, and it needs reigning in to fair levels.




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