Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory strike


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory strike Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 11:05:47 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		The $0.97 is an excellent salary in India... If you were to compare it would be like a $175,000 a year salary in the USA.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 11:24:57 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

WOW!!

This is a link worth clicking on!!!!

These factory workers are making 47 cents to 97 cents an hour???

According to the link, they are working in inhumane and unsafe conditions, also.

This is slave labor!!

Shame on GM!!

Evil, soulless greedy bastard corporations, are these the people we are depending on to create jobs and help save our economy?

lol, no we don't need no stinking unions here in the United States!



I dont think I could have said it any better Marini
Scum sucking bastards, and where is the money going? ohthe CEOS deserve it huh for enslaving non americans, but its all good huh
Capitalism rocks! am I right?


And this is why reducing taxes on these companies will not do a goddamn thing for us, it wont bring us any jobs.

Just since 2000 and you-know-who got in office...2.7 million more manufacturing jobs gone in the US, 2.4 million jobs created in China, V. Nam, India etc.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 12:20:24 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The $0.97 is an excellent salary in India... If you were to compare it would be like a $175,000 a year salary in the USA.

Butch




Let's see the numbers on that, by a qualified agency, if you would.



PS

Aside from the fact that the actual figures in discussion here are .47 to .92 cents per hour.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 12:25:43 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 12:22:44 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		A 10% raise would devastate GM, and the US. 

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 1:38:11 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


They are not striking for more pay, they are striking because the plant keeps raising the expected output for the same pay and installing new "hurry up" requirements and they are suffering significant back injuries from it.


For multinationals, this is the 1800's UK or US all over again. Whoopee ...  







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 1:40:21 PM >

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 2:46:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The $0.97 is an excellent salary in India... If you were to compare it would be like a $175,000 a year salary in the USA.

Butch




Let's see the numbers on that, by a qualified agency, if you would.

PS

Aside from the fact that the actual figures in discussion here are .47 to .92 cents per hour.




A WEB SITE has given a clear idea of just how much you can reduce costs if you hire your IT staff in India rather than in the US of A.
While comparisons are no doubt odious, according to PBS, quoting International Labour Organization and Paaras Group figures, a programmer can earn $66,100 in the US, but only $10,000 in India.

If you're a mechanical engineer in the US, you can expect to get around $55,600 but only $5,900 in the subcontinent.

And even beancounters are cheaper in India, earning $5,000 a year rather than $41,000.

An IT manager only picks up $8,500 in India, while in the USA she or he can expect to earn around $55,000.

The same site estimates, ussing Forrester Research figures, that by 2015 1,659,310 office jobs will go to India. By 2015, 348,028 businesses will move from the USA to India. And the number of computer jobs moved by 2015 is estimated to be 427,632.
http://timeandspace360.blogspot.com/2008/07/salary-comparison-india-us.html


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 3:05:42 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
That's more like it.

If we used the previous 97 cents/hour or  $1,940/year = $175,000/year assertion claimed earlier, then the Indian $8,500 a year IT manager in the above study would equate to a $766,753 per year IT manager in the US rather than the $55,000 as related by your source.


Taking the mean of .47 and .92 (.70), the workers at the plant make $1400 per year.


Thanks



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 3:14:32 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 3:06:31 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

If the unions here had any smarts they'd stop whining about outsourcing and actually do something about it by sendimg people to third world countries to help orginize unions over there. Corporations use cheap labor for one reason and one reason only... because they can. If you really want to help American workers against unfair foriegn competition... then help the foriegn competition to organize.


If they are striking it would seem they are already organized.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 3:32:14 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Edwynn... these are factory workers not professionals... just run a search of average per capita income in India then compare it to the average income in the US and do the math... It may vary from site to site but you will get the idea.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/21/2011 3:36:39 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 3:38:26 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

I am used to doing just this thing, which is why I could spot the ridiculousness of your comparison right away.



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 3:46:01 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I could be wrong and would like for you to correct me... What figures do you find for the average per capita income in India?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 5:06:30 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline

What matters is relative purchasing power parity (PPP) when comparing wages in far different locations with different currencies to begin with to give any meaning to the numbers.

Here's the comparison between Ahmedabad, a nearby city to the plant in Vaddodara, and Atlanta:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=India&city=Ahmedabad

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=United+States&city=Atlanta%2C+GA

I chose Atlanta because it's a reasonable average of all the cities where car plants are in the US, and Ahmedabad because the link did not have the purchasing power figure for Vadodara, but it's a neighboring city.

The local purchasing power for Atl. is 116.61 and for Ahmedabad is 48.66, meaning that when the exchange rate of USD and Rupee and the cost of living in both cities is all accounted for,  an item costing 116.62 units in Atl. will cost 48.66 units in Ahm'd. No surprise, it's cheaper in the latter location.


The mean of .47 and .92 is .70, and at 2080 hours in a year, the total mean wage of the GM Holal plant workers is $1456 per year.

Using this info for auto manufacturing wages in the US:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/naics4_336100.htm#51-0000

I likewise took the mean of the highest and lowest paying jobs listed in the link for non-supervisory positions, which is $48,420 per year.

The local wage divided by the local purchasing power tells you how much one can actually buy in his location at that wage.


US auto workers:  48,420/116.61 = 415.2.  For the local wage for that job, somebody in Atlanta can buy 415 units of something in a year.

The Vadodara auto workers: 1,456/48.66 = 29.92.  For the local wage for the same job, somebody in Vadodara can buy 30 units of something in a year.


So the wage of the workers at the Vadodara plant is not only lower in exchange rate terms, we would expect that, but the wage in purchasing parity terms is actually (415.23/29.92 = ) 13.87 times lower.



But thanks for telling me all the things that I need to be aware of.

Coming from somebody who spouts some number 'cause it sounds sorta right off the top of his very biased head, that means a lot to somebody who understands what these comparisons mean in factual terms as his study.



Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, etc.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 5:22:44 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 7:13:45 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Why be an ass my friend...I asked you to show me...have you no grace?

Now for my point...how does the wage of the GM worker in India compare to the average income in India. That is the point I have been trying to make from the first but you kept comparing to an American worker.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 8:18:58 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why be an ass my friend...I asked you to show me...have you no grace?

Butch



Because you were being one, when after you threw out a ridiculous number saying that 97 cents per hour ($2018 per year) equated to a $175,000 job in the US and I responded to that, eventually in great detail, you spat on my efforts. 

I responded to the first point, giving all pertinent other considerations relating to that point with detail that is beyond some people's comprehension on typical forums, but only because you asked.

Then you move the target, and claim me to be an ass because I responded with some admitted bit of impatience, and then demand that I chase another another frisbee you've thrown.

The response to your first point was addressed in thorough manner, and complicated enough for you. The question of the general status of the citizens of India vs. the general status of those in the US is a MUCH more complex question.

Your understanding of my response to your first point was beyond your abilities, and my ability to respond to your second point is far beyond my ability to answer in any proper manner, as would be the case with those much more adept and qualified than I am.


India is a very large country, the population there is 3 times the US, their history and culture is entirely different, then there's the difference in a multitude of ways from one region to the next within that country, one demographic to the next, one social or economic sector to the next, their idea of class structure not homogenized throughout the country,  and I forget how many religions, but there are at least three big ones, etc.,  yet you demand an apples to apples comparison from me in that, even as you spit on my efforts to your prior-to-moving target before?


You ask me if I have no grace.


My response is to ask; have you no consideration of others?






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 8:51:07 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 8:46:29 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I always responded to you with respect...show me otherwise... you don't understand my point I can see... or you know you are wrong and refuse to answer my questions.

Let me say it one more time... the worker in the GM plant in India makes approximately $1900 a year...a guess. Checking for the average income in an India household I find it to be around $500 per year.

So GM auto workers are making almost 4 times the average salary in INDIA.

If the average US income is around $46,000 then 4 times $46,000 would an equivalent in INDIA.

I am not nor was ever talking about relative buying power... just the relation of the GM workers salary to the average Indian working household.

Now granted it is simplistic but still a viable statistic.

Now tell me again how I responded to you with anything but respect.. I was just trying to get you to understand my point.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 9:22:10 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


"Now granted it is simplistic but still a viable statistic."

I'm not worried about how simplistic the statistics are. You are welcome to that, and in fact the basic concepts of economics are readily admitted to be oversimplifying, if only for purpose of having the foundations laid for further much more complex issues to address when reality comes into play. The 'concepts' even worse than the math in that regard.

But that is not the only reality, simple or complex.



Perhaps it might be the reality of some others that when you whip their back for the 1001'st time, the 'economics' all of a sudden don't matter anymore, whatever their prior condition, and dignity and sense of why they are even on this planet might push other considerations out of the way.







< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 9:25:01 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 9:29:37 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

But this is about the treatment of workers not their salary or justification for it....Apples and oranges that is my point...or at least one point.


You see I addressed what you are saying...I think...when I posted the above. I was trying to show that the salary is not what's important because in relation to other workers in India it is a good wage...by Indian standards.

It was how the workers were treated that is important.

I think we have had a big misunderstanding.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/21/2011 9:32:44 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 9:46:56 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
There is no misunderstanding whatsoever that the Indian workers are well underpaid by Western standards in any measure, being that what they can buy from their labours is 14 times less than what Westerners can buy for putting in the same day's work, and that the even more important issue is that the labour issue there is definitely of the greater concern even beyond that, missing the point of beating people half to death notwithstanding.

The acknowledgment and kind understanding on your part of oranges to apples being met by yet apples to apples 'strictly economic' comparison as a measure from yourself.


Glad that you've finally caught on here.






< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 9:57:07 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 9:54:40 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		l... ok ...but I think you cannot blame GM for India's economic standards....and it seems to me I was around before you commented.

I would like to know how other international industries pay their workers in India in relation to their average wage. That may be more revealing.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 9:59:56 PM   
JoeinChicago1970


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/17/2011
Status: offline 		seriously .... WHO CARES!!! WE have OUR OWN starving in the USA. As American companies ship jobs to where its cheaper, and they are willing to do the work for low rates....THEY DESERVE IT!!!! They should NEVER expect to make what an American makes...... because they arent American. WE as Americans have to stop buying into the companies that have out of the country precense(sp) and MAKE them support our own FIRST... The liberats are ruining the USA. WE collectively need to stand up to the foreign monster and say guess what, were NOT taking it anymore, were rounding up your people, and shipping them ALL back home.... You can support them or let them die, but YOU have to deal with the problems....We have to close our borders for at least 5 years, and essentually start over and get control back... Life Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness.....yeah RIIIIIIGHT....

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory strike Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109