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RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 10:16:31 PM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

l... ok ...but I think you cannot blame GM for India's economic standards....and it seems to me I was around before you commented.

I would like to know how other international industries pay their workers in India in relation to their average wage. That may be more revealing.

Butch





It's not about pay, it's about treatment.


"I would like to know how other international industries pay their workers in India in relation to their average wage. That may be more revealing. "

From now on, it's not about your simple yet roving targets , it's about the people in question here.

Yes, that others beat the f#ck out of their own countrymen in Britain, or the slaves in the SE US, so the foreigners of different skin in other countries today should consider themselves blessed in comparison. The SE US paid dearly to the Brit or Dutch importers, whereas they themselves paid next to nothing for the same privilege of beating and contracting every drop of labour from their own, but with nominal wages, that being in only in the most generous sense of the term. In innumerable instances 'paid' workers were treated even worse. Harsh times. We've heard this before.

As long as somebody beats somebody else  even further into a pulp, or perhaps their own people do, or pays them a nickle less per day than we do, then whatever we do, however marginally below that, makes us paragons of virtue.

We've heard all this before, which is what kept Europe into the slave trade long after prohibition of slavery in their own countries. 


I have no use for you whatsoever further.




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/21/2011 11:01:05 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 10:21:10 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Why do they build a car that no one can afford over there?

(in reply to Edwynn)
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RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 10:51:52 PM   
Edwynn


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I hesitate to ask ...


But the numbers there?





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RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/21/2011 10:54:57 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

The launch Thursday of India's low-cost car at just 2,500 dollars points the way to a higher standard of living for the billions of people in the developing world but at the price of increased pollution, congestion and energy consumption
.

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Indias_low-cost_car_may_prove_too_high_a_price_to_pay_999.html

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RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 12:09:51 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Now for my point...how does the wage of the GM worker in India compare to the average income in India. That is the point I have been trying to make from the first but you kept comparing to an American worker. "

I think you fail to see the point. These negative examples remind me of my Grandmother - "Be happy with what you have". Needless to say she didn't get much out of life. Love it or leave it, fuck you I was born here and I don't like it here. I will not leave. And I will not be run over like the sheeple.

These countries where they open plants have been so dessimated by the PTB that they would sell their dick for a big mac. They have nothing. They are overpopulated and broke. How many of them you think have to make payments on a seven foot HDTV, a 6,800 sq. ft. ranch style bungalow on five acres and a 32' boat ?

Our ancestors built this fucking lifestyle, they toiled until they died. They did this for us. Now the big money wants to take all our houses and make us live in shacks. They want to take our gold and give us paper. They want to take our steel and give us plastic. They want to take our farms and make us sharecroppers - AGAIN.

It's the same fucking people over and over. History repeats itself as soon as people forget. I WILL NEVER FORGET. I wasn't born in the best of times but it beat the hell out of now, and I want it back.

Go shopping and create jobs - in other countries. Get the fucking idea, I DO NOT WANT THIS JUNK. WE CAN stop them from making all this money off of us. WE can buy ten year old cars. WE can forgo the new plasma. WE can forget about a few things. WE can destroy their power by not giving them our money. WE CAN.

But we won't. We must keep up with the Joneses. We must have the bestest video game. We must have everything. We must have a new car every couple of years.

Not me. You, that's right YOU are the ones who let this go on. I know a Woman who after the 9/11 attacks went shopping "to keep this economy going". Can you believe this ? I have a hard time with it because otherwise she is decent, has a job and all that. Runs her life pretty well. She's just not the sharpest bowling ball on the alley. How did this happen ? This is one of those things that is clearly not my fault.

Whose fault is it ? Could it be the peole who constantly steal our wealth, our sweat, our very lives ?

Naw, they wouldn't do that now would they ?

T^T

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 2:44:01 AM   
Edwynn


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Thanks again for another great job, Termy-the-perceptive.

"Our ancestors built this fucking lifestyle, they toiled until they died. They did this for us. Now the big money wants to take all our houses and make us live in shacks. They want to take our gold and give us paper. They want to take our steel and give us plastic. They want to take our farms and make us sharecroppers - AGAIN. "

You forgot the part about "They want to take our tubes/valves and give us transistors and solid state." But that's just me, from a selfish audio standpoint.


One of my German teachers said to me while we were yackety-yacking in his office; "I went to this kindergarten class a couple of months ago, and I thought I would see all these kids playing with toys and running around and everything. But they had them all sitting at a keyboard and screen (some particular name for the actual product I don't recall) and 'teaching' them how to use that."  Three-to-five year old kids, plastered to a chair and computer.

This is beyond sick.


No wonder slavery was accepted when the 'masters' did, in some ways, even worse to their own.

We don't have technical slavery anymore, but that doesn't stop us from finding evermore ways from doing worse to our own, does it?

And, lest I be misunderstood; the way I grew up, and where I grew up, everybody around me means "our own."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2FT4FprxDg


Notice the tall guy playing bass on the left in the video? The one who became Jimi Hendrix's producer about 2 years later?




< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/22/2011 3:26:29 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 7:39:22 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

The launch Thursday of India's low-cost car at just 2,500 dollars points the way to a higher standard of living for the billions of people in the developing world but at the price of increased pollution, congestion and energy consumption
.

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Indias_low-cost_car_may_prove_too_high_a_price_to_pay_999.html


Tazz,  ok,  $2500.  I want one.  Sell me one at that price.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 8:07:11 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		emigrate to india 

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 8:15:21 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		^  why?   GM sells cars here.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 8:18:08 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		go stamp your feet and ask for one at GM then
maybe they will give you a pony,


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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 8:27:27 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		^ lol.   The tata does look abit like a go cart. 

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 8:28:34 AM   
Lucylastic


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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 9:12:13 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You really have to start reading other peoples posts.... You are arguing with yourself not me... From the beginning...before you even posted I pointed out the welfare of the worker was the important part of the story... Yet you rave on like we are opposed in our thinking... You seem a little unhinged.


Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 9:42:08 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Termy

Somehow I get into these arguments where I end up defending people I really don't want to...I just see both side of an argument most of the time.

I am an isolationist... I believe in keeping industry in the US for the US worker...so I think we agree here. I've stated many times that if we give tax money to industry in bail outs they should keep open American plants and close those out of the country...It did not happen.

But this story is fishy from the beginning and needs more sources. Auto plants are auto plants...they are the same here as in India. If it is alright for our workers to work at these plants then it should not be inhumane to work at the same kind of plant in India. Building cars is building cars.

Now the money paid is a good salary for India even if not a good comparative salary here. But say they are making them work in extreme heat without air conditioning then this would be inhuman and needs to be investigated...which is what I've said all along.

Myself I want GM to move its plant back to St Louis and reemploy the thousands of workers they let go when they moved the plant to India.

I am not defending GM in any way… I just did not want to condemn them before I was sure of the facts.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 10:11:37 AM   
Edwynn


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Some of us can dig out those facts more readily than others. No judgment to others on that score, we are all put here for different things. But when people refuse to listen even after the facts are before them then it's time to quit being nice. You have proven beyond doubt that your "I need to see the facts first" claim holds no sway at all, being as the facts presented to you are not understandable by yourself or are otherwise meaningless to you, as evidenced by your continual digging here.

You will never be 'sure of the facts' when you are incapable of comprehending them in the first place, so quit using that as an excuse.

When a worker in another country has to work 14 hours to buy the same thing as would take one hour's of their work if done in our own country, that alone would be a hint to some that something might be amiss here.

The workers at the GM Halol plant in Vadorada went on strike because the plant bosses increased output quotas and demanded that they hurry up more, at least twice since the last minor pay raise when increased quotas were part of the bargain, and the workers get fired or moved to a worse job if they bring to attention that their backs are in severe pain. All with out any increase in their equivalent $1,600 per year in US purchasing power pay.

We are not on the same page at all, and your refusal or inability to see what is in front of you and has been patiently (then impatiently) explained to you does not constitute my being 'unhinged.' Howevermuch it might make you feel better to say so.

And if you want to lock the foreigners' business out of the US, keep in mind the 5 Toyota plants and at least one BMW plant employing people in this country and if you were to have your way, put over 15,000 people out of work right away.


You are a sick person, and I never realized how much before this episode.





< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/22/2011 11:03:53 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 11:06:36 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Then how Edwynn when I suggested that we, as tax payers having a stake in the India GM plant, should have a congressional investigation in to these charges conflict with your views?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 11:11:03 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		what charges and what would an investigation of a legal activity in a soveriegn nation do for us besides spending all sorts of money, issuing a statement that its deplorable and not fixing our corporation laws here do for us, besides robbing our pocketbooks on some theater.........?????

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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 11:25:48 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I hope...could be wrong...but I hope congress could at least force changes in GM's management of a plant, we have a piece of, to stop inhumane treatment of workers...if it turns out to be true.

Maybe Edwynn is right in that I look at things too simply...But I've found over my years only simple works...nothing else.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/22/2011 11:29:40 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 11:41:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		State Street Bank and Trust (GMs largest shareholder) would laugh the US government (a relatively minor shareholder) off the fuckin' planet at that presumptuous notion.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: General Motors CEO urged to address India factory s... - 4/22/2011 12:54:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not so sure...remember they do have to keep up their image in America and it is never wise to make enemies of Congress...You never know when the next bailout will be needed.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 60
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