quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




He doesn't even know that Stalin wasn't a leftist. He had the true leftist Trotsky assassinated, and all the internal purges were against the original revolutionaries. That would be explanation enough for most people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



If you have evidence that Stalin was not in fact a thug and murderer long before he ever heard of communism there is a market for it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




I did not realize that the 30 million Russians he killed, the vast majority of them being 'peasants,' were so aristocratically inclined.

Your opinion is not substantiated by facts.


Pardon if I don't have instant links referring to things I read in creditable and well researched books before the internet came along, but there is nevertheless much evidence, not the least being numerous quotes from Stalin himself, that he had no use whatsoever for the ideology itself. Of course he targeted the aristocratic hangers-on first, but that was a matter of solidifying power, I can assure you nothing to do with the ideology of Marxism.


If that is true then you should have no problem identifying your sources.



Unless you are trying to tell us that Trotsky also was in this group of the old guard aristocracy that Stalin killed in further pursuit of his own quest for purification of the ideology.

Please do not try to put words in my mouth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Yes, I do understand that well researched and fully referenced library books are now considered as "ignorant, ill conceived, and unsubstantiated" as compared to a quickie google search nowadays.


Point to you there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



It's been more than 20 years ago when I read those books, and sorry if I don't jump through hoops at your command,

You posted unsubstantiated opinion. Asking you to validate your opinions is hardly commanding you to jump through hoops.


but I have to admit that we are stuck with the situation as it is here.

That being the case, you are welcome to read through this link and identify for all of us the definitive proof of Stalin's love for the ideology of Marxism or Communism:

I asked you to validate your expressed opinion as to how many million people you claim that stalin murdered so far you have tried to dance away from actully supporting your opinion with any sort of fact.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joseph_stalin.html


Death solves all problems - no man, no problem.
Joseph Stalin

Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.
Joseph Stalin

Everyone imposes his own system as far as his army can reach.
Joseph Stalin

Gaiety is the most outstanding feature of the Soviet Union.
Joseph Stalin

Gratitude is a sickness suffered by dogs.
Joseph Stalin

History shows that there are no invincible armies.
Joseph Stalin

I believe in one thing only, the power of human will.
Joseph Stalin
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/joseph_stalin.html#ixzz1Kra2oG1M


Which of those quotes do you find to be untrue.




Yup, the guy was just a frikkin' priest for the ideology of Communism, ?

Are you suggesting that the above quotes are the sum and substance of stalin's being?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




No one I know of or have read about as an adherent to the Marxist or Communist ideology could say any more than one or two of those quotes, on their worst day.

Perhaps you might want to read a little about andrew jackson or napoleon bonapart. Both of those men would be completely comfortable with most if not all of those quotes.

Whether 'sum and substance' or not, any two of those quotes above put alongside each other would disqualify anyone as having any concern whatsoever for his fellow man, and that being a basic tenet of Communism,

Really????? What does the communist manifesto say about the means to be used to bring about this "universal brotherhood"?
I believe it was phil sheridan who said that "the only good indian was a dead indian" Stalin might have paraphrased sheridan by saying the only good aristocrat was a dead aristocrat.


that would convey to any thinking person that Stalin had no use for the ideology other than for cynical purpose.

If that were true how do you explane the "five year plans", "the hero of soviet labor award" the concept of universal literacy,equal status for women just to name a few?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn



Stalin invented equal status for women? That's a new one on me.

I am sure that there is a lot that is new to you

But considering that after shooting enough of them and their babies it might be understandable that he would be desperate for more cogs in the machine, I can see the logic in such an effort, whether it be originating from his mind or not.

You keep offering your opinion about how many people stalin killed but you never seem able to come up with any validation of who, why and how many.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwynn




No, it's up to the one making idiotic claims for burden of substantiation.

That would be you.

I have made no claims.
You have claimed that stalin murdered 30,000,000 people...
your claim...
your responsibility to validate it.

Prove that Stalin did not have at least 20,000,000 people murdered.

Now it is 20,000,000 whassup did you count some twice?
Well now that you have revised your figgure downward how about validating it.

Every history book in other countries says the same thing.


Yet you fail to cite even one of them.

Your being a denier

What have I denied?

is what provokes modern kids to think all this murder is OK, if for the right cause.

There are a great many americans who think that the murder of the native americans was ok...I believe that happened before stalin was born.

Prove that the idea of universal literacy originated with Stalin.

I never said that so why should I have to validate it?

And women were voting in the US state of  Wyoming  9 years before Stalin was born, and in Sweden, among other places, women were voting 100 years before that.

So your point would be?

While we're at it, tell us why Stalin's Russia could not provide for themselves with out having all of eastern Europe to feed and supply his stupid mass murdering ass.

Just which part of eastern europe are you refering to?