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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 7:11:25 AM   
GreedyTop


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LadyP is NOT always around CM... she actually has a life.  That life includes the normal day-to-day stuff as well as presnting demos etc.    She attends munches, dungeon events and so on.

In other words, LadyP GOES OUT AND CONTRIBUTES to the leather life.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 7:26:57 AM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

(laughing) If I were one of those people that collected quotes of the week, THIS would be it. Thank you for the comic (?) relief which was much needed in this thread, wise NocStalk.


You can always feel free to send me a note. It will be considered.


*eta: only 33 minutes left in today... so who knows what tomorrow will bring?

So as not to hijack...... (completely)

There is a marked difference as I experience men. Often it is about being comfortable with who they are.

I sent a postcard to a friend recently. Her fellow found it and said, "hey who is (for example) John?" His lady friend said, "That's not 'John' ... that's a card from Joan (that'd be me)." There was no jealousy or insecurity in the question, just curiosity. This is the difference between a man and a boy.

Submissive? Dominant? Doesn't matter.

best,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 5/6/2011 7:31:19 AM >


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 8:44:40 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja
i thought you were always around... that is how it seems to me... yawn...
so if you missed it, it MUST not have happened happened...

No internet on the boat during the trip, which was actually a pretty cool experience.  It wasn't two weeks, but it was fun as hell.


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 11:07:25 AM   
diablarosa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

You women, always... looking sexy and... stuff. 

RaptorJesus help me out here.  I'm tagging you in.



LOL

I give you 8 pink Lesbian Party Kazoos on the DiablaRosa Scale of Awesomeness.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 11:26:29 AM   
diablarosa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

Simple condemnation is easy. 


You would know... wouldn't you? I mean... look at the stupid shit you're saying in this thread.
Look AwareNot, I think your male supremacy ideas are cool when you mix them in with d&s. I have experience in that to, just on the other end of the spectrum. the problem here is you're really a tremendously BAD poster child for the pro-male dominance argument... so much that if I didn't know any better, I'd swear you are actually trying to discredit the sexist beliefs/stance you claim to have.

dissing submissive men with contempt like an ignorant ass or making broad (and stupid) comments about dominant women isn't going to represent your intellect worldliness or experience very well. the consensus on this thread seems to agree. and its really pathetic that a young inferior person with a 28-day cycle has to tell you that.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 11:43:32 AM   
NocturnalStalker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: diablarosa


quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

You women, always... looking sexy and... stuff. 

RaptorJesus help me out here.  I'm tagging you in.



LOL

I give you 8 pink Lesbian Party Kazoos on the DiablaRosa Scale of Awesomeness.


Oh you're so cute I could just pwinch your chweeks.


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 11:58:20 AM   
TheRaptorJesus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

You women, always... looking sexy and... stuff. 

RaptorJesus help me out here.  I'm tagging you in.



Yeah, I went to sleep... or was slaughtering infidels or something.

Now the thread is a couple of pages longer. Totally dropped the ball.

PS- Props to LP for understanding the value of punch and pie.


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 12:06:26 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Props to LP for understanding the value of punch and pie.

That LP's a classy lady. 


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 5:02:03 PM   
aromanholiday


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday

(laughing) If I were one of those people that collected quotes of the week, THIS would be it. Thank you for the comic (?) relief which was much needed in this thread, wise NocStalk.


You can always feel free to send me a note. It will be considered.


*eta: only 33 minutes left in today... so who knows what tomorrow will bring?

best,
sunshine


You're very right. Who does know what tomorrow may bring? Ok, I nominate his quote for your quotas. I hope there is not a long waiting list; it has been a rather lively week 'round here.

I will also add one note of explanation of the above (which you need NOT quote, well, unless you want to.) The question mark after comic was placed there because, in my observation, dispensing lemonade is always a relief, at least to the dispenser, but it isn't always comic, particularly for the dispensee! I suppose that will have to stand in for my contribution to wisdom for the day.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:01:45 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Dude, you kind of suck at this.  Stick with something logical.

I'd have trouble actually finding threads where anybody was bitching about you in your absence.  Do you ever find yourself being referenced when you're not around?  If you were, I missed it. 
  Look, give up on the logic train, you not only missed it, you don't even have a ticket.  The concept of "not around" on the internet is mindbogglingly stupid and you totally failed to understand my point.  Being - that it's the internet, who gives a fuck what some random asshole thinks.

I suggest you leave this one alone, you're not getting it.

quote:

You've spent quite a bit of time on this thread trying to support an emotional reaction that has no logical basis?  Ok.  Stick with that.
What the fuck?  Your contribution is apparently to demonstrate your inability to follow a conversation, then follow that up with nonsense and somehow think you're in the driver's seat.  Tell me, do you *ever* run into someone who doesn't buy into your bullshit?  Based on the contents of this thread, I'm thinking not.

quote:

I have to tell you that you're wrong there.  It's got everything to do with who they are as individuals.  They already know the qualities that I find admirable in them.  Can't you gather enough information about individuals on these forums and via discussions through email to evaluate those kinds of things when it comes to submissive women?
  How can it be about them as individuals, when you referred to them as a group?  Honestly, I'm beginning to think you're not the full quid.  You're saying EVERY SINGLE male sub in this thread is admirable and you know them all as individuals which is why you can make a collective statement about how great they are.  Bollocks.  You're playing to the crowd.


quote:

We'll have to have a difference of opinion on that.  I'm going to go with Roch's prior post.  I don't really think you'd be voicing these opinions if one of these guys was in front of you and have the ability to clean your clock. 
  Postulate all you like.  I'm hardly going to care about the whiny opinion of a male sub trying to regain his lost masculinity by threatening someone over the internet.

quote:

quote:

*laugh*  Your lack of insight is not exactly going to upset me.  And your suggestion presupposes that my belief structures are based on negative personal experiences.  That's naive

Then what are you basing it on?  Contempt is pretty strong to have for an entire orientation of people.
  Oh Christ.  Education time!

Most people here have contempt for racists.  Oh, but it's "pretty strong to have contempt for an entire orientation of people".

People exhibit contempt for each other all the time.  The fact that I do it based upon character attributes means I'm just like everyone else.  I just find those character attributes exhibited by male subs to be contemptible.  In particular, their inability to dismiss me as some random asshole on the internet and their whiny responses demonstrate exactly those character attributes I'm talking about.

But of course, the other issue here is how a board like this is a network of alliances, cliques and mutual ego-stroking.  People close ranks against outsiders and any claims of free-thinking disappear out the window whenever anyone presents an idea that threatens the status quo.  On the one hand, people preach live and let live, then fail to do exactly that when presented with someone who doesn't shoehorn themselves into mould that meets with their approval.

I've already pointed out that my attitudes don't mean I go around looking for opportunities to antagonise male subs and their admirers in threads, but the discrimination seems lost on those with a poor reasoning faculty.  What causes me to raise an eyebrow is the inability of alleged Dommes simply to accept the existence of someone with a contrary view.  Instead, they feel driven to try and purge such ideas as though their mere presence in this world cannot be tolerated.

At which point it becomes obvious that they're not quite the big girls they claim to be.

Anyway, it's time to give it a rest, this thread has gone beyond any pretense of usefulness and is now merely a sideshow for the restless natives.


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:24:57 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aromanholiday
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Some of the biggest ball-busting bitches in the world are total submissives.  In my experience, they challenge each and every man they encounter, desperately looking for the one who'll take them on and conquer them.  They have total contempt for the ones who try and fail.  I'm no longer surprised when I hear such a woman tell me she's looking for a 1950's household.

I agree. This has been my personal experience and that of others close to me in regards to the female dominants we have known. It's not true for all female dominants, though. And yes, I've also seen (through my female dominant friends' eyes) that something like the converse happens: a good number of publicly male dominants approach a few dominant women secretly with a desire to sub while advertising themselves to everyone else as purely dominant. My conclusion is that there are a lot more switches out there than openly admit to it and that most of them have decided that, whatever their inner impulses, it is far easier to present to the world as only a dominant than as only submissive or as a switch. They tend to get addicted to the prestige and respect accorded the first role and become ashamed to show the kinky public their submissive sides.
  I understand that, although I think the issue is more that there's a difference between a dominant and a simple kinkster.  The classic example of this is when someone jumps onto a thread and asks questions about "learning" to become a Dom or a Master.  Both the question itself and the responses which advise people on the various things they should "learn" indicate a mindset which thinks being a Dom consists of learning the right codewords, associating with the right people and undergoing the right training.

On the contrary, being Dominant is purely about character attributes, not learning how to wield a whip.  That is, if someone wishes to become a Dom or Master, the only route is to despise weakness and develop your internal strength.  To become utterly self-reliant and insistent upon seeing reality as clearly as possible.

quote:

A classic case of this was a well-known dom-dom couple whom I knew intimately, and, because I knew them intimately, I knew they were both switches, each with a slight preference for the bottom side (which caused considerable trouble in their relationship, have no doubt!), but they presented themselves (and even convinced themselves, I'm afraid: that's the danger of false personas, we tend to become them) that they are both purely dominant.
  I don't get the Dom/Dom couple thing at all, I'm afraid.  It's completely counter-intuitive.  Relationships are not democracies.  Someone always leads.  And given that sexual attraction is founded in polarity, the difference between the couple should ideally be as great as possible.

quote:

quote:

Basically most women are submissive - some of them just don't realise it yet.
But just observing things as they are right here and now, I'd say that the majority of women (and men) are not dominant or submissive, they're more "I could care less."
  Increasingly, I'm finding women who say "I want an actual MAN goddamit".  There's a strong movement afoot to diminish the differences between the sexes as much as possible and the resulting emasculation of men has turned out a generation of whiny milksops who are taught to be ashamed of their masculinity.  These men are not attractive to many of the women I encounter.

quote:

They're relatively clueless about power's role in personal relationships, and, in their dealings with each other, grope about as if blind, each seeking advantages, each trying to get needs met, each willing to concede *this* but not *that*, each consulting the augurs of the times for help (women's magazines like Cosmo for females and pickup-advice books like the Mystery Method for males), and doing all of the above in quite confused ways. Transactions and exchanges (I'll do this if you do that) are a way of life in such arrangements. So is trickery. So is tension and its release (you could say this one is so in dominant-submissive relationships, too, but the terms have a very different reality behind them than when used in the vanilla context). Sometimes such people find a compatible partner and reach a peaceful harmony, but their lack of knowledge about power, their blind spot, places this peaceful coexistent, however long-lasting, in jeopardy. Something as trivial as a shakeup in their lifestyles or even daily routines could be enough to shatter their faith in the other person.
  Agreed.  Power has long been considered a dirty word, especially in some of the more conservative arenas, even while the use and abuse of it by those who vilify it has shattering consequences.  The reality is that it's a fundamental tenet of our existence as a species and our psychology makes the acquisition of it necessary to achieve goals.  As a consequence, we never stop playing that game, no matter how much we might fool ourselves otherwise. 

That power is a fundamental element in intimate relationships is a reality that some seem unable to confront.


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:41:08 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
I just find those character attributes exhibited by male subs to be contemptible.  In particular, their inability to dismiss me as some random asshole on the internet and their whiny responses demonstrate exactly those character attributes I'm talking about.


I guess that if I ever felt one of my posts on this thread, or indeed any other, to be 'whiny', I might agree. I've been called many things, and often correctly, but not 'whiny'. That's because I'm not whiny, to the same way that I'm not blue-eyed, Russian, or an astronaut. It doesn't fit.

A prejudice is exhibited when someone forms an opinion of the characteristics of a group and prejudges a given member of that group as having those characteristics solely because he's a member of that group. You've exhibited a prejudice with regard to malesubs. This I know for certain, because I'm not a whiner. I'm near as damnit certain that's the case with other malesubs I've seen here, too.

So yes, I am indeed dismissing you as a random asshole on the internet. In fact, I did that quite a few pages ago. Just saying.


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:44:24 PM   
LaTigresse


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Well Peon, he did get one thing right......he is akin to a side show. Albeit, a really poor quality side show.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/6/2011 6:45:14 PM >


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:47:59 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Awareness,
I know you are posting to LadyPact, but there is something I would like to chime in on. I don't think people have a problem at all dismissing you as a random asshole. I'm sure many people dismiss me as a random bitch. That you think this discussion is about you is intriguing to me. This is a discussion that is not about you but rather about points of view. Even assholes and bitches can at times create interesting opportunities for mental masturbation.

The clique thing - people gravitate toward one another for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that people are social beings. You do the same thing, so let's just keep this in perspective. Some people like each other, some don't. Often the reality is somewhere in between. And while I make no secret that I respect LadyPact, and she has some warm feelings toward me as well, it doesn't change that we disagree - fairly vehemently at times. It is the respect that underpins the interaction that keeps things real for me. I would like to remind you that I saw your point when I turned things around a bit. (Something you chose not to acknowledge, but no matter). I am not "in your corner" but you have made some valid points. For example, it's true some people do hold each other in contempt. There really is an "us" versus "them" mentality that is part of the human condition, and one way to separate the "us - es" from the "them - s" is to dehumanize or demean the ones who are not in our own camp. Do we all have prejudices? Of course we do. Hopefully, we are wise enough to recognize them and learn what is the fear that is beneath them. We can all learn from one another. People of good conscience make the effort to face their ugliness and attempt to alter it. This is the highest on Maslow's hierarchy of needs - self-actualization. Most people have not made it that far (as you clearly point out).

I don't think it is true that "most people have contempt for racists." In fact, that's an interesting question. It would mean most people have contempt for themselves, for we are all "-ist" to some degree. Even the people who work toward greater understanding, who do their best to eliminate the tiniest kernels of prejudice in themselves are often able to maintain a certain understanding for people who are not able / choose not to eliminate it in themselves. That is not contempt, it is compassion, and it has to do with culture, time, age, and a myriad of other factors.

If this thread has become a "side show" as you say, what is your part in that? The original question itself has merit, the discussion has at times been fascinating and challenging. It is when the discussion has moved from the conceptual to the individual that the worth of the thread diminished.

Even if you wish to have nothing more to do with it, let me quote Syl and the Quote of the Day here, "The last person I'm going to ask for permission is Random Generic Dude on the internet" to stop discussing something that is a topic that interests me.

best,
sunshine

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:52:52 PM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

On the contrary, being Dominant is purely about character attributes, not learning how to wield a whip. That is, if someone wishes to become a Dom or Master, the only route is to despise weakness and develop your internal strength. To become utterly self-reliant and insistent upon seeing reality as clearly as possible.


Is that right? Really? Well, let me inform you. You are wrong. Being dominant is about understanding others. It is about being comfortable in your own skin and having the inclination to lead. Even leaders need to learn certain skill sets.

Your despising weakness will come back and bite you on the ass some day. Sometimes it is in our weakest state that we find out who we truly are. And in that, we find our strength. It is a lesson well learned.

No one is utterly self-reliant, and that you don't see that as a reality is rather telling about your abilities.

best,
sunshine

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:57:42 PM   
NocturnalStalker


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Holy tinfoil hat.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 6:59:04 PM   
sunshinemiss


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... misunderstood... cleared up.

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 5/6/2011 7:07:03 PM >


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 7:01:20 PM   
NocturnalStalker


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Oh!  Yeah... that was, um, to you...

*Informs Big Brother and the Thought Police of recent rebellion.*


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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 7:03:48 PM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

Holy tinfoil hat.

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Local Debonair Deviant.

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Did I misread that?

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 5/6/2011 7:06:10 PM   
NocturnalStalker


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I have an extremely bad forum habit of hitting the "Post Reply" at the bottom of a topic as opposed to "Reply" to a particular message.

You can discipline me later.


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