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RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 6:55:11 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_the_United_States

Has it pretty summed up for me... the Colonial Precedent section states that Maryland had the original law, which was repealed by Protestants, replaced with a law banning Catholics from openly practicing their religion.

Now, the freedom to pratice a religion also gives the freedom not to pratice any religion, since a state mandated religion is forbidden. However, the "state" can determine what practices a religion may have. A dog fighting ring as part of a religious practice will not be allowed, for example.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 4/26/2011 6:57:14 PM >

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 7:00:24 PM   
Thirsty4Goddess


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/17/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

government at large has limited everyone religion and replaced it with government religion.

atheism





Just how has government limited the practice of your religion? Has the gestapo ever prevented you from attending the church or temple of your choice?

In fact churches enjoy special status and dont pay taxes on revenue or property.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 7:47:46 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion.

This is the breakdown of major Christian denominations:
* The Catholic Church, 68,115,001 members
* The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,228,438 members
* The United Methodist Church, 7,853,987 members
* The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,974,041 members
* The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members
for a total of 103,671,342

There are 6,452,030 Jews in the United States, 2.8 million Muslims.

Then it seems that Atheists are a minority, contrary to what one post implies.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 7:53:21 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thirsty4Goddess


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

government at large has limited everyone religion and replaced it with government religion.

atheism





Just how has government limited the practice of your religion? Has the gestapo ever prevented you from attending the church or temple of your choice?

In fact churches enjoy special status and dont pay taxes on revenue or property.



Pay no attention.

That one is not in a reality based world.Kinda like sanity.It`s all whacky constructs and not much substance.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 9:34:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_the_United_States

Has it pretty summed up for me... the Colonial Precedent section states that Maryland had the original law, which was repealed by Protestants, replaced with a law banning Catholics from openly practicing their religion.

Now, the freedom to pratice a religion also gives the freedom not to pratice any religion, since a state mandated religion is forbidden. However, the "state" can determine what practices a religion may have. A dog fighting ring as part of a religious practice will not be allowed, for example.





hence freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and right to own and bear arms are ALL complete bullshit and regulated by the gubbermint.

dumb people!  Think they have rights!  They have no rights.

They have democracy (MOB) regulations.

got it!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 4/26/2011 9:35:04 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 9:38:23 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thirsty4Goddess


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

government at large has limited everyone religion and replaced it with government religion.

atheism





Just how has government limited the practice of your religion? Has the gestapo ever prevented you from attending the church or temple of your choice?

In fact churches enjoy special status and dont pay taxes on revenue or property.



Pay no attention.

That one is not in a reality based world.Kinda like sanity.It`s all whacky constructs and not much substance.



now if you educated yourself on these matters you would recognize the correct word for what you are trying to express is de facto.

bill is in the mail.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 9:56:03 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you?


It's a key attraction of system that allows the greatest number of willing participants to enslave themselves.


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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 10:01:08 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		lol.. rich coming from someone posting on a BDSM site

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 10:03:10 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

hence freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and right to own and bear arms are ALL complete bullshit and regulated by the gubbermint.

dumb people! Think they have rights! They have no rights.

They have democracy (MOB) regulations.


Some religions practice pedophilia.... this is what you consider a right?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 10:39:56 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Considering that Freedom of Religion is a right this country is based on, regardless of what some people say, but it also means that there is a freedom FROM religion.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 10:51:57 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I`m puzzled by those that believe there isn`t freedom FROM religion.


How does that work exactly?


How do you tell folks they can`t be free from it and then enforce that?That`s not freedom or free anything.


Who`s business is my religion other than my own?

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 11:05:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Considering that Freedom of Religion is a right this country is based on, regardless of what some people say, but it also means that there is a freedom FROM religion.


Now, the freedom to pratice a religion also gives the freedom not to pratice any religion, since a state mandated religion is forbidden. However, the "state" can determine what practices a religion may have. A dog fighting ring as part of a religious practice will not be allowed, for example.

Something I pointed out.

A freedom FROM religion implies your freedom is greater than a religous persons. Im curious how that works?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 11:33:47 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Scenario:
I've just discovered I'm divinely inspired to form a new religion. So far, tenets/practices include daily public group sex for devotees, generous quantities of your substance of choice to be consumed at will as a sign of devotion, female supremacy, polyandry, enslavement of all males with blue eyes and blond hair and free candies for the kids. Membership is almost free - just a mere formality of adherents signing over everything they possess to the Church in perpetuity. I am the absolute leader in perpetuity and entrusted to manage its financial affairs as I choose. I'll get round to dreaming up some nice sounding theology/dogma when I feel like it. I like the name the Church of Delicious Self-Indulgence. The Church makes the standard claims about being the absolute truth etc. and the Church leadership claims infallibility in all matters temporal and spiritual. The Church is designed to conform with whatever legal standards apply to qualify in law as a religious institution.

Get the picture?

So:
*Does my Church and its adherents enjoy the freedom to practice our religion?
*Should whatever foundation myth I invent be taught in schools?
*Is my Church covered by freedom of religion provisions of whatever Constitution applies in your countries (not just the USA)?
*Ought my Church be allowed to start its own schools and teach adherents children about its tenets as the truth?
*Is my Church entitled to tax free status?
*Can it agitate for public policy to be informed by the Church's belief system and to incorporate our values?
*Do Church members have a right to evangelise in kindergartens, schools and public places?


Edited to add:


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 4/26/2011 11:46:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/26/2011 11:37:37 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
Status: offline 		I have been trying to decide how to say that which I wish to in reply to this thread. Freedom of religion does not, to me, mean the freedom to believe,as that is a matter between you and the God or Goddess of your choice, and cannot be interfered with. What it really means to me is the freedom to openly profess one's beliefs.

Freedom from religion is a concept that is foreign to me. I could no more understand a life without my religion than I could a morning without a sunrise.

However, if by this you mean the freedom from having another's religion imposed on one, then this too is foreign to my experience. This has been the way of those who follow my Goddess for centuries, by adopting the outward trappings of the majority religion did we avoid discovery and persecution. I myself have been a follower of my Goddess all my life, yet I am a baptized and confirmed Roman Catholic and I attend Mass with some regularity. My prayers and hymns are and always have been directed to my Goddess and she accepts them, regardless of where they are given or the words with which they are phrased. It is what is within that matters.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Thirsty4Goddess)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/27/2011 3:37:54 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thirsty4Goddess


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


Freedom of religion. . . this means that I can practice whatever and whenever.



So you would have no problem with a group of Arabs pulling out rugs at the airport and knelling on them to pray just before getting on your flight? lol


No, I don't have a problem with that. Why would I?

I am assuming that these are rugs they are carrying and not pulled up from the airport.

quote:

Or do you mean literally that freedom of religion is you get to practice whatever and whenever and others should be sensitive to your sensibilities?


I get to practice as I wish and folks should leave me alone about it. My neighbor can have a Passover Seder in the back yard. My other neighbor can create a paper mache minaret and hold prayers there. These are all acceptable things to do.

Bull sacrifice will have to be in the country. There is no place to do it in the city. But if it is what you really want to do, I can hook you up.

quote:

Putting a manger scene in your yard is one thing, demaning the public school or courthouse display ine is another thing.


I cannot see how some plastic figures of Mary, Joseph, a baby, and some camels could possibly demean a school or courthouse. I think that you have to be overly sensitive to take offense to such.

_____________________________

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I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/27/2011 5:06:18 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


Who`s business is my religion other than my own?

If more folks thought that way, the world would be a much better place.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/27/2011 7:54:33 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`m puzzled by those that believe there isn`t freedom FROM religion.


How does that work exactly?


How do you tell folks they can`t be free from it and then enforce that?That`s not freedom or free anything.


Who`s business is my religion other than my own?


Political theorists usually talk about two different kinds of freedom: negative and positive. That is, freedom from (control, oppression) and freedom to (practise one's preferred religion, etc.) Obviously, there are going to be sometimes difficult balances to be struck. Me, for instance, I'd want to be free from any religious types hammering on my ears in order to 'evangelise' me. On the other hand, religious types may argue for their freedom to spread the word of their religions.

Just saying.

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RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/27/2011 8:36:54 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Scenario:
I've just discovered I'm divinely inspired to form a new religion. So far, tenets/practices include daily public group sex for devotees, generous quantities of your substance of choice to be consumed at will as a sign of devotion, female supremacy, polyandry, enslavement of all males with blue eyes and blond hair and free candies for the kids. Membership is almost free - just a mere formality of adherents signing over everything they possess to the Church in perpetuity. I am the absolute leader in perpetuity and entrusted to manage its financial affairs as I choose. I'll get round to dreaming up some nice sounding theology/dogma when I feel like it. I like the name the Church of Delicious Self-Indulgence. The Church makes the standard claims about being the absolute truth etc. and the Church leadership claims infallibility in all matters temporal and spiritual. The Church is designed to conform with whatever legal standards apply to qualify in law as a religious institution.

Get the picture?

Sure, but just so we are clear, I avoid any church that includes this "just a mere formality of adherents signing over everything they possess to the Church in perpetuity."

Total red flag for me, so don't be expecting a check any time soon, but good luck in your endeavor.

So:
*Does my Church and its adherents enjoy the freedom to practice our religion?
Yes it does
*Should whatever foundation myth I invent be taught in schools?
If you are talking about a religion class, then if you become successful, I am sure some teacher will mention you from time to time. If your just another flash in the pan, probably not. Now if you mean are they going to add it to the public school curriculum, they don't for any other, so why would you be special?
 

*Ought my Church be allowed to start its own schools and teach adherents children about its tenets as the truth?
Why not? Other churches can and do. Of course first you would have to find staff and students. How many familys do you think you will draw to this?

*Is my Church entitled to tax free status?
That would be up to a lawyer to answer.

*Can it agitate for public policy to be informed by the Church's belief system and to incorporate our values?
???
*Do Church members have a right to evangelise in kindergartens, schools and public places?
Do other church members? Again, why would you think your special?


Edited to add:



_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/27/2011 8:41:01 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Putting a manger scene in your yard is one thing, demaning the public school or courthose display ine is another thing.


I have heard of several instances of people demanding that they be taken down, but I can't think of any time I have heard of people demanding they be put up.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Freedom of religion, what does it mean to you? - 4/27/2011 10:06:24 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Putting a manger scene in your yard is one thing, demaning the public school or courthose display ine is another thing.


I have heard of several instances of people demanding that they be taken down, but I can't think of any time I have heard of people demanding they be put up.


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/11/less_than_100_march_on_chamber.html

I assume that settles that.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 40
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