RE: Racism and the 'black bull'

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Racism and the 'black bull'

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Racism and the 'black bull'

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 2:59:49 PM

divi

Posts: 11109
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline

High risk for you is walking on ice with mandals.

_____________________________

( imho )

I really could use a wish right now

(in reply to domiguy)

Profile

Post #: 41

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 3:40:28 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

Why does ever thing have been be racial with people.I love black girls myself.I also love all women,regardless of color.So some people want a black bull or a white slut,who cares?So long as the fantasy ISN'T motivated by racism,then I see nothing wrong with it.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 4/29/2011 3:49:30 PM >

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Ishtarr)

Profile

Post #: 42

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 3:47:01 PM

Palliata

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Why does ever thing have been be racial with people.I love black girls myself.I also love all women,regardless of color.So some people want a black bull or a white slut,who cares.st long as the fantasy ISN'T motivated by racism,then I see nothing wrong with it.

That's very much the question - what is it motivated by?

_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Profile

Post #: 43

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 3:53:26 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

Its like for me,I have a Black Domme.Race has never been a issue with me.I have been out with women of all races and I prefer it that way.I don't care for stereotypes,most of them are all false anyways.

_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 44

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 3:58:14 PM

Palliata

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline

Those things aren't relevant. I'm asking about the specific situation I outlined in my first post - white/white couples fantasizing about or pursuing black males for cuckold purposes. Causes, effects, externalities, etc.

_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to Charles6682)

Profile

Post #: 45

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 5:29:37 PM

strangedesire

Posts: 360
Joined: 12/23/2008
Status: offline

Ok, on topic....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

I almost wonder if it isn't that white men feel more emasculated watching their woman with a black guy because they think of blacks as inferior (subconsciously, perhaps) and therefore being cuckolded by one is even more humiliating... I hate to accuse an entire segment of the population of racism, but that's the Occam's Razor answer here, to my eye.

Someone in the last thread suggested it was simply the social taboo on interracial relationships, but those same taboos exist for whites involving themselves with latinos and, as mentioned, I've never seen that pop up in cuck fantasy.

I suspect that you see a lot of the black bull/white female/white cuck dynamic in part because it's reached a kind of kinky critical mass. There are enough people interested in it (for a variety of reasons) that it's waltzed into porn culture and popular (kinky) discourse. Honestly, if you're a person who watches a lot of porn, and half of the porn that gets you off features the "hung black bull," he will become a character in your fantasies just by association.

In part, I think this has happened because the black bull/white female thing is just the right amount of taboo. Where I live (East Coast) the idea of a woman falling for a suave latino isn't especially surprising - it would be like falling for a well-muscled French exchange student. Race relations, at least in my part of the US, are more tense along black/white lines than any other racial dynamic. This makes it extra sexy for taboo chasers. On the other hand, the white dominant/black submissive dynamic (which I've seen fetishized) tends to be fairly explicit, edgy race play. The only people who will get into it are people who are really drawn to that kind of thing, and they may be judged harshly for it - which keeps it small.

The "black bull" also shows up a lot due to stereotyping. This isn't quite as malevolent as you seem to think it might be. The stereotype is that all black guys have big dicks and are more violent/animalistic in bed. It isn't good, but it isn't quite as overtly racist as "black men are inferior." And you know what? I'm sure there's some good, old-fashioned racism that comes into play too. But it isn't everyone or everything.

quote:

They're rarely characterized beyond "masculine and condescending" and don't really exist as living, breathing human beings, but instead as figureheads for white desire.

I encourage you to look at the women that show up, too. They aren't living, breathing human beings either, are they? The vast majority of sexual fantasies that show up in places like this don't acknowledge anyone but the male having the fantasy as human. That, unfortunately, has nothing to do with race, and more than the foot fetishist who can't see above a lady's knees thinks that women in heels are subhuman.

_____________________________

On that other site as Exegesis.

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 46

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 6:30:59 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If you stimulate a mucus membrane sufficiently, there will be a reaction. Throwing pepper up your nose doesn't mean you have a cold, just that you stimulated the mucus membrane and it reacted with the way it knows how to.

However, I would think the fetishizing of black males by white males is a result of the fact that there is an erroneous belief that black men are better endowed than whites. Which is not true. Males whose ancestry traces to hot climates tend to be larger while flaccid but do not enlarge as much proportionately when aroused. Males who trace their ancestry to cold climates tend to be smaller while flaccid but enlarge more when aroused. They average out the same when aroused. And the reason for the size difference before arousal is that if everything hangs lower in a hot climate, sperm won't overheat and will have good motility. In a colder climate the sperm need to be closer to the body to stay at the right temperature. As to why it isn't just the scrotum that hangs lower, I have no idea.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Ishtarr)

Profile

Post #: 47

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 6:49:16 PM

VideoAdminTheta

Posts: 3967
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline

If your post was removed, it was because it was off topic after a warning to remain on topic. Please do not let it continue.

Remain on topic or start a new thread.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Profile

Post #: 48

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/29/2011 8:28:06 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I think you need to put that razor down before you cut yourself with it. You're seriously drawing straight-line conclusions from fantasy material? So then you also believe that most of the women in the US are secretly hoping to become rape victims?

Firstly, rape fantasies are actually remarkably common according to psychological surveys, and further many women under psychological care after a rape incident admit to enjoying it at some level and to experiencing orgasm during the incident. Not condoning rape, but such are the facts.

Secondly, yes I am most definitely drawing straight-line conclusions about people's attitudes from their sexual fantasies. Fantasies don't spring fully-formed from the ether, they are drawn from our own psyche. Even in the case of a fantasy you don't want fulfilled, it is still indicative of elements within your personality just as every other thought, feeling, and action you have is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

I'll bring this from the other thread. I said:

"I like black guys (and white, Spanish, the list goes on), but I don't like black guys who fetishize me because of my race (as opposed to merely digging white chicks)."

You said:
"How do you distinguish those two things in your mind? What makes one distinct from the other?"

What you say in your OP above is fetishizing. I like guys who happen to be [race] who happen to light my fire. The race is WAY secondary to the sparks.

I've met black guys who are members of groups like "Black Masters with White Slaves" and are really into the race aspect, which is a turn off to me.

So it's less that you enjoy the fact that they're black than it is that you enjoy them as people and they happen to be black, and that separates it from fetishism?

I have no clue what studies you have read. All the research Ive done shows just the opposite more like after years of therapy they are STILL traumatized by it.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 49

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/30/2011 1:25:28 PM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

In part, I think this has happened because the black bull/white female thing is just the right amount of taboo. Where I live (East Coast) the idea of a woman falling for a suave latino isn't especially surprising - it would be like falling for a well-muscled French exchange student. Race relations, at least in my part of the US, are more tense along black/white lines than any other racial dynamic. This makes it extra sexy for taboo chasers. On the other hand, the white dominant/black submissive dynamic (which I've seen fetishized) tends to be fairly explicit, edgy race play. The only people who will get into it are people who are really drawn to that kind of thing, and they may be judged harshly for it - which keeps it small.

The "black bull" also shows up a lot due to stereotyping. This isn't quite as malevolent as you seem to think it might be. The stereotype is that all black guys have big dicks and are more violent/animalistic in bed. It isn't good, but it isn't quite as overtly racist as "black men are inferior." And you know what? I'm sure there's some good, old-fashioned racism that comes into play too. But it isn't everyone or everything.

I suspect this accounts for a large part of it. It's not so much looking down on black men as putting them on a pedestal defined by aggression, sexual potency and hypermasculinity. It's definitely a crude stereotype, but it's not actually a negative one unless you assume that those traits automatically imply a lack of refinement and self-control. There are probably other contributing factors too. Black men also get stereotyped as resentful of whites and predatory towards white women, which is more obviously negative but could fuel the fantasy by giving the "black bull" a reason to subject the woman and her hapless white male partner to delicious abuse and degradation. A lot of sexual fantasies (especially BDSM ones) are driven in part by a sense of distance and unfamiliarity between the people involved, and racial differences can contribute to this.

So I think the attraction of "black bull" fantasies comes from a complex of factors that sort of skirt the edges of racism without being racist in any simple way. Personally, I'm not really drawn to cuckolding scenarios as such, but the idea of having my submissive white male ass handed over to be used and abused by a domineering black person of either sex is... not uninteresting. I think it's fine to play around with the stereotypes as long as they're not taken too seriously.

As for "black bulls" not having much personality in porn depictions, and other interracial cuckolding scenarios being rare, I'm inclined to blame the limited imaginations of erotic writers and directors. If I ever write a cuckolding story, maybe it will be about a Singaporean businesswoman using her money and influence to compel her Bangladeshi cleaning lady to submit to unspeakable degradations while her husband looks on in horror.

(in reply to strangedesire)

Profile

Post #: 50

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/30/2011 6:42:04 PM

LillyBoPeep

Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline

well and all of that only matters because there's still this assumption that white = good, innocent, pure, and the big bad black guy is "violating" all of that. that's generally the way interracial porn works. a sweet skinny blonde white girl being "destroyed" by big evil black guys. interracial porn that involves black women tends to be all in doggy style or "look at her ass," or basically showing her as a ghetto horny bitch who can't use complete sentences.

a lot of this is why, even though i generally find myself attracted to white guys, i've often thought of avoiding them because, in the BDSM world, a lot of racist stuff is supposed to be "okay," because it's all non-normative.

_____________________________

Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Profile

Post #: 51

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/30/2011 10:55:59 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

...a black guy because they think of blacks as inferior

Firstly, this is actually not a new topic. Secondly, despite the "PC" crowd's vehement denial of even the possibility of racism, the answer is simple... for some, no... it has zero to do with racism (and more to do with preference/attraction) -- where for others, it is absolutely an unconscious form of racism.

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 52

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/30/2011 11:20:50 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

...a black guy because they think of blacks as inferior

Firstly, this is actually not a new topic. Secondly, despite the "PC" crowd's vehement denial of even the possibility of racism, the answer is simple... for some, no... it has zero to do with racism (and more to do with preference/attraction) -- where for others, it is absolutely an unconscious form of racism.

Which, if I am not mistaken, has been stated countless times on this and other threads relating to the same topic.

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Profile

Post #: 53

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/30/2011 11:49:57 PM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

I always thought it (part of it?) was more the image/myth that black men have larger c**ks than white guys. What does BBC stand for? There is no BWC for big white guys, after all. So if a white guy wants to feel inferior then the bull has to be someone that symbolizes a guy that is bigger down there. So perhaps it is a more of a sterotype rather than racisim.

When i watch porn, it is different for me to watch a black guy having sex with a white women vs white on white. Its such a contrast, skin color-wise.

I guess race can play a part, sometimes i think about the black male slave (in a former life) having his way with the white land owner's daughter, sort of getting even with her father in a way for all that went on before. Switching roles and power/control.

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 54

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 4/30/2011 11:55:50 PM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

BBC = Big black cock.

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to tj444)

Profile

Post #: 55

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 12:04:50 AM

tj444

Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

yes i know but my point was that there is no equivalent acronym for big white cock. The sterotype is that black guys have the big ones not white guys, just like white guys can't dance.. or is it that white guys can't play basketball? hmmmm

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Profile

Post #: 56

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 1:03:52 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
Why is it that black tops...are so fetishized?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682
...long as the fantasy ISN'T motivated by racism,then I see nothing wrong with it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
That's very much the question - what is it motivated by?

i'm gonna play a little semantic trick and say that fetish *is* motivated by racism, but in this case it can't be called "racism" because it's a fetish, and that word doesn't apply to fetishes. Yes, that's really my argument.

Normally, objectifying someone because of their race is called racism. Likewise, objectifying someone because of their sex is called sexism, objectifying someone because of their age is called ageism, and objectifying someone because of their appearance is called being an asshole. Normally, objectifying anyone, for any reason, is just wrong.

But a different set of rules applies in the bedroom, i think. Objectification... happens. Now, for the record, i don't like being objectified, not in the bedroom or anywhere else. i don't do the casual sex thing, and a physical trait isn't what lights my fire. But it absolutely is for some people. Hence fetishes. And i guess i don't have a problem with objectification in a sexual context when all the parties have consented to it.

i also think that sexual preferences don't always have a rational explanation. If getting turned on because of someone's race is racism, then what do you call a foot fetish? Footism? It doesn't make sense.

But, yes, i think that it's significant that there are "black bull fetishes" far more often than there are fetishes for any other kind of "bull". Don't know what it means, exactly. Couldn't tell you. Don't have the fetish. Maybe it has to do with superstition. In mythology, the colors black and white are often associated with the supernatural or have some other special significance, just as the numbers 3 and 7 do. i don't know.

i wouldn't call it "racism", though. i don't think you can apply that word to a sexual fetish, although it is an objectification based on race. i wouldn't call rape fantasies "sexist" either, for the same reason. For sexual preferences or fantasies, those terms don't apply.

pam

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 57

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 3:09:53 AM

Palliata

Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
And i guess i don't have a problem with objectification in a sexual context when all the parties have consented to it.

No I'm definitely ok with it, or whatever else makes people happy as long as everyone involved is on board.

quote:

i also think that sexual preferences don't always have a rational explanation.

This I disagree with, on the other hand. We live in a deterministic universe; everything has an explanation. We might not know it yet, and that's why this kind of knowledge-sharing is good, but there definitely is one.

_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to gungadin09)

Profile

Post #: 58

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 3:19:55 AM

Ishtarr

Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

quote:

i also think that sexual preferences don't always have a rational explanation.

This I disagree with, on the other hand. We live in a deterministic universe; everything has an explanation. We might not know it yet, and that's why this kind of knowledge-sharing is good, but there definitely is one.

Except that in this case, the "reason" may not be anything but a random firing of neurons, set in motion by an almost infinitely large number of causal relation chains, which may or may not be as simple as getting a hormonal input a millisecond sooner or later in the womb or having a sum of experiences that adds up just right to cause another experience to become engrained.

Thus, the fact that everything has an explanation doesn't indicate that it's necessarily possible to describe that explanation in any way that is meaningful to human understanding and interaction.

Ishtar

< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 5/1/2011 4:07:45 AM >

_____________________________

Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt

Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 59

RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 3:50:12 AM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
We live in a deterministic universe; everything has an explanation. We might not know it yet, and that's why this kind of knowledge-sharing is good, but there definitely is one.

Then my best guess for the explanation is that it's a combination of society's fear of blacks, with the stereotype that black men are hung, plus some kinky gene. Or, in other words, playing around with racial stereotypes as a way to get off. And i agree that in any other context that would be racist.

For a foot fetish, i'm not sure there's a better explanation than "random neuron firing".

pam

(in reply to Palliata)

Profile

Post #: 60