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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 6:41:47 AM   
Charles6682


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I wonder what the true percentage is of Black Dommes/White Submissives?I am curious as to what society and the BDSM community really feel about this dynamic.It has no effect on my jugdement.Just curious.




On the other hand, the white dominant/black submissive dynamic (which I've seen fetishized) tends to be fairly explicit, edgy race play. The only people who will get into it are people who are really drawn to that kind of thing, and they may be judged harshly for it - which keeps it small.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 5/1/2011 6:47:37 AM >


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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 7:48:30 AM   
aromanholiday


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
So if a white guy wants to feel inferior then the bull has to be someone that symbolizes a guy that is bigger down there.


When I came across cuckolding erotica or porn online it was almost always presented from the weak male partner's perspective, in other words, it was a "guy fetish." What you said above, about inferiority, was precisely the locus of desire from the husband's or boyfriend's perspective: he was a submissive man who relished/desired being made to feel inferior and humiliated by his lack of access to "his" woman. This is at the core of a lot of humiliation fantasies: the acts make you lesser, not as human as other people. The most passionate male cucks I've known were not dominant and would not have enjoyed the fantasy if it had resulted in the woman feeling frightened, defiled, or raped. The more enjoyment she got from the act, the more humiliated/hot they felt because it signified their own inability to please her except by "miserably" watching her get her brains fucked out by superior male specimens. And if she started to talk to her husband about how much hotter the bull was and how much better a fuck he was, and how his rubbing his tiny little thing as he watched reminded her of a little dog trying to hump her leg, it would probably send the submissive over the edge.

When a woman has these fantasies (with herself as as the one being fucked in front of her mate), they often include rape and forced breeding and lots of suffering on the woman's side. I've written a story or two along those lines. Some dominant men have these fantasies as well, they view their ability to give their submissive to another man of their choosing (and often not a man she would choose), to be like offering another man a cigar. It's a form of sadistic control the brings home to the woman how little choice she has over anything, including who uses her body.

In some cuck fantasies, the husband is a short, skinny wimpy professional and the "bull" is a huge well-muscled blue-collar caucasian. He's crude, direct, and not very polite or differential: the opposite of the way the husband acts toward his wife--and the wife loves that. So it's not always about race, but there does have to be a strong contrast between the men that reinforces the cuckold's sense of inferiority.

Finally, while it's not common, some submissive women have cuck fantasies similar in feel to those of the submissive man's. We may imagine our master goes out one night, leaving us locked in a cage, and returns home with a gorgeous young dish he picked up at a club. Then he proceeds to give her a most wonderful screwing while the slave watches sadly from the bars of her cage, longing to be be the woman who is being fucked, feeling her inferiority, and perhaps being turned on by the fact that she's not "good enough" for him. (If a sadistic dominant man were having this fantasy, the submissive would probably not be turned on the least but instead very distressed by her rejection and his preference for a more beautiful woman.) The situation can be made more intense, much as it often is in the male cuck's fantasy, by the dominant praising the woman he is screwing, describing how much more sexier and attractive she is than the ugly lump in the cage who is only good for housework. Afterwards, if he's in a generous mood, the master may let her out of the cage so that she can clean them both up, then she's locked back inside, as the lovers fall asleep in each others' arms. It might be prolonged: in the morning the slave may have to serve them breakfast in bed, then get locked away while they shower together, have a morning screw, and then go out and enjoy a very expensive and fun date. Perhaps the slave is let out of her cage to clean up after them. Perhaps she'll hear all about the wonderful time he had with the babe later that day, and who knows, the woman may be back for a second evening of erotic fun. If the beautiful woman is also smart, it makes it even harder on the slave, as it strips from her another area where she can protect herself by feeling personally superior to the "dumb bimbo fuck."

The common denominator in all of these variations of the cuckold fantasy seems to me to be cruelty and degradation and the pleasures these bring those who are wired to appreciate them. Race/ethnicity is a tool that can be used to increase the intensity of such emotions, particularly if the one being cuckolded has a racial attitude, but it doesn't have to be present. Given the fact that it does appear in so many of these fantasies, it suggests a lot of people have racial attitudes!

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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 8:51:53 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

...a black guy because they think of blacks as inferior



Firstly, this is actually not a new topic. Secondly, despite the "PC" crowd's vehement denial of even the possibility of racism, the answer is simple... for some, no... it has zero to do with racism (and more to do with preference/attraction) -- where for others, it is absolutely an unconscious form of racism.




Which, if I am not mistaken, has been stated countless times on this and other threads relating to the same topic.


Yes... so what's your point -- I'm afraid I'm not understanding the intent of your commentary???  :-\  (scratches head)




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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/1/2011 1:09:00 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
So then you also believe that most of the women in the US are secretly hoping to become rape victims?


Thanks for steering what might have been a rather interesting discussion way off course.


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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/5/2011 9:08:44 AM   
beltainefaerie


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I enjoy Dan Savage's advice column most of the time and in reading the archives came across this one.  It is just too relevant not to share:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=133984


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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/5/2011 10:12:32 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

Ok, on topic....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

I almost wonder if it isn't that white men feel more emasculated watching their woman with a black guy because they think of blacks as inferior (subconsciously, perhaps) and therefore being cuckolded by one is even more humiliating... I hate to accuse an entire segment of the population of racism, but that's the Occam's Razor answer here, to my eye.

Someone in the last thread suggested it was simply the social taboo on interracial relationships, but those same taboos exist for whites involving themselves with latinos and, as mentioned, I've never seen that pop up in cuck fantasy.


I suspect that you see a lot of the black bull/white female/white cuck dynamic in part because it's reached a kind of kinky critical mass. There are enough people interested in it (for a variety of reasons) that it's waltzed into porn culture and popular (kinky) discourse. Honestly, if you're a person who watches a lot of porn, and half of the porn that gets you off features the "hung black bull," he will become a character in your fantasies just by association.

In part, I think this has happened because the black bull/white female thing is just the right amount of taboo. Where I live (East Coast) the idea of a woman falling for a suave latino isn't especially surprising - it would be like falling for a well-muscled French exchange student. Race relations, at least in my part of the US, are more tense along black/white lines than any other racial dynamic. This makes it extra sexy for taboo chasers. On the other hand, the white dominant/black submissive dynamic (which I've seen fetishized) tends to be fairly explicit, edgy race play. The only people who will get into it are people who are really drawn to that kind of thing, and they may be judged harshly for it - which keeps it small.

The "black bull" also shows up a lot due to stereotyping. This isn't quite as malevolent as you seem to think it might be. The stereotype is that all black guys have big dicks and are more violent/animalistic in bed. It isn't good, but it isn't quite as overtly racist as "black men are inferior." And you know what? I'm sure there's some good, old-fashioned racism that comes into play too. But it isn't everyone or everything.

quote:

They're rarely characterized beyond "masculine and condescending" and don't really exist as living, breathing human beings, but instead as figureheads for white desire.


I encourage you to look at the women that show up, too. They aren't living, breathing human beings either, are they? The vast majority of sexual fantasies that show up in places like this don't acknowledge anyone but the male having the fantasy as human. That, unfortunately, has nothing to do with race, and more than the foot fetishist who can't see above a lady's knees thinks that women in heels are subhuman.


This and maybe just a bit more.

I'm led to think that there is also a tie in here with the fact that there are far fewer non-white people participating in our lifestyle communities than we have in the general community.  Folks who do link a fetish to a person's skin color might actually have something to do with that in a cause and effect kind of way.

Something to ponder.


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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/5/2011 12:16:46 PM   
PrunusKanzan


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quote:

Folks who do link a fetish to a person's skin color might actually have something to do with that in a cause and effect kind of way.


Very, very, true. After just joining a couple of days ago, I've been hit with many "requests" because of my color. I should be offended but, I've long outgrown people and their distorted views. I've had requests to bring along black male friends. I assume this is because of this idea of " Black man= automatic rough big jungle ding a ling". Its quite laughable, people and their assumptions. I'm still young, but I thank God that I've been able to meet many different people, from many different places, with many different views. Knowing more makes you less narrow minded. At the very least, at least I don't think of people in terms of :

1)white guy= wimpy, small penis loser

2)black guy= big cock,' ram it up your ass because that's all I do' slave master

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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/12/2011 11:44:54 PM   
jewelsthepoet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

To address the OP's comment on women secretly having enjoyed being raped, I cringe when I read such nonsense. Obviously, you have never actually been raped by a stranger and have been severely hurt.

Your comment is so ridiculous it almost does not deserve a reply. And yes, many women have rape FANTASIES. Understand? FANTASIES that can be acted out safely; with a trusted person. To actually compare the pleasure one feels with play rape vs real life rape is stupidity beyond belief.

As far as the actual topic; who can say? Fetishism sometimes just rises out of a particular preference, but one cannot assume racism or other negative intent when it comes to sexuality. I think your question is rather naive, to be honest since there are a myriad of different types of stereotypes in sexual fantasies and if you have not seen the ones you mentioned, then you are operating from a limited perspective.



I would have to vigorously agree with you on this one. I have been raped and let me tell you i neither enjoyed it, nor did i have an orgasm, though sexual predators do play on that aspect to control their victims into further shame, humiliation and make it less likely the rape will be reported.

To the OP -

I have rape fantasies, in a controlled environment where the play is consensual and the scene has been set BEFOREHAND so i know what to expect, at least to a degree.

Having been on both sides of the fence (and i do have permanent damage from at least 1 of the rapes), i can tell you personally that there is a HUGE difference between the two and they are NOT the same thing.

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RE: Racism and the 'black bull' - 5/13/2011 1:33:51 AM   
HannahLynHeather


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quote:

and the BDSM community
the what? dude, log out of bdsmlibrary. there is NO bdsm community that thinks anything. there are a bunch of people with an interest in bdsm who donot agree on anything.

get real!!

hannah lynn


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