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natural disasters another reason the US needs single-payer - 4/29/2011 10:28:43 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Natural disasters happen all over the world, but they're even worse in countries without single-payer health care. Most have probably heard about the devistating tornado outbreak in the eastern US. Many people are injured and their homes are destroyed. Because US citizens lack single-payer health care, they have to pay outrageous insurance premiums and co-pays if they have insurance at all. Because of this, many homeowners may have to spend their home owners insurance settlements on hospital bills instead of rebuilding. Renters may have to choose between finding another place to live or paying the hospital. If they don't have the money to pay the hospital right away, their credit will be ruined and they may have a hard time finding an apartment since so many landlords do credit checks. If they do find an apartment and the hospital takes them to court to have their wages garnished, they may be evicted for non payment of rent and then they'll have an eviction on their rental record, another thing landlords often check. Experiencing a natural disaster is bad enough without having to worry about outrageous medical bills.

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008
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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/29/2011 11:27:54 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Looking simply from the financial point of view (insurance) asking for a single-payer system can mean two things: 1) assumption that private insurance is more expensive, 2) single payer system allows stealth distribution of tax money into the system (redistribution of wealth). In practice, the last reason is more important as about half of Americans do not make enough income to afford high level health care. The inevitable consequence of a single-payer system would be price control, rationing, and increase in fraud. Totally nationalized system would be better in terms of cost.  Pro-profit health care providers are reducing affordability very efficiently. Everybody knows the absurdity of the pricing (shameless, naked fraud)  in medical facilities. 

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/29/2011 11:36:57 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"and increase in fraud"

Those four words pretty much sum it up.

These poor insurance companies lose so much money from people needing care, I don't see how they stay in business. That's why they manipulated the government to get everyone into the "pool". Think I'm kidding ? Why aren't health care insurers lobbying against health care reform ?

I will not participate in this. I will not pay the fines. When they put me in prison for that, they will give me free medical. I win. Single payer ? Not going to happen.

Just watch and see.

T^T

(in reply to Fellow)
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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 5:24:35 AM   
DeviantlyD


Posts: 4375
Joined: 5/26/2007
From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Looking simply from the financial point of view (insurance) asking for a single-payer system can mean two things: 1) assumption that private insurance is more expensive, 2) single payer system allows stealth distribution of tax money into the system (redistribution of wealth). In practice, the last reason is more important as about half of Americans do not make enough income to afford high level health care. The inevitable consequence of a single-payer system would be price control, rationing, and increase in fraud. Totally nationalized system would be better in terms of cost.  Pro-profit health care providers are reducing affordability very efficiently. Everybody knows the absurdity of the pricing (shameless, naked fraud)  in medical facilities. 


You don't think fraud happens with the current system in the USA? Private health care is a for profit system, which means stock holders are ultimately deciding what health care the insured user gets access to. It's obscene. If I didn't have my employer paying for my health care insurance, I would leave. Even as it is, it's very limited. The number of people who are not insured is approaching 20%. Unbelievable! I can only imagine it getting worse and not better. The health care insurance system in this country is broken, there is no doubt about it. Leaving it as is as good as sticking one's head in the sand. It needs improvement. There has got to be a change. You know the irony of all of this? Illegals seem to be the most knowledgeable about manipulating the system and getting government paid health insurance. For anyone in the USA to believe the status quo is the way to go is only fooling themselves.

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 5:34:46 AM   
DeviantlyD


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From: Hawai`i
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

These poor insurance companies lose so much money from people needing care, I don't see how they stay in business.



You're kidding, right?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HealthCare/health-insurers-post-record-profits/story?id=9818699

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/health-insurance-companie_n_539572.html

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/06/the_truth_about_the_insurance.html

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 5:37:02 AM   
ArizonaBossMan


Posts: 380
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Status: offline 		Socialism enslaves. Good grief, the same tired arguments. 2012 can't come fast enough to clean out the rubbish in DC and elsewhere.

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 5:55:45 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"You're kidding, right?"

Yes, you may calibrate your sarcasm detector by that.

T^T

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 5:57:08 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		"2012 can't come fast enough to clean out the rubbish in DC and elsewhere. "

Why bother ? It just gets replaced with more trash.

T^T

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 5:59:21 AM   
Edwynn


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"Socialism enslaves."


Somebody let you out of the cage and this is how you show your gratitude.

We suppose then that every country aside from the US being described as a "developed economy," which designation becomes ever more questionable for the US, that all have a full coverage health care system of some sort, are all enslaved then. That is, the US is the only as yet non-enslaved developed economy.

In some of them, the lowest paid workers are not nearly as low paid, they have benefits from the start, the typical worker makes as much or more than counterparts in the US, they work a couple less hours a week, have typically two more weeks of vacation per year for the same years at the company, and have more money saved after all that.

What kind of work isn't slavery?

Here's the difference; in the US they tell you that it isn't, when it actually is, so that dupes like you accept less by falling for the delusion. Other countries just acknowledge the reality and their workers demand a better deal for it.








< Message edited by Edwynn -- 4/30/2011 6:03:31 AM >

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 6:05:24 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
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Status: offline 		"Never let a good crisis go to waste" -- Rahm Emanuel

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 6:36:57 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"You're kidding, right?"

Yes, you may calibrate your sarcasm detector by that.

T^T


That post made me turn mine way down... my meter went off the scale!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 6:54:49 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

"Never let a good crisis go to waste" -- Rahm Emanuel


We lay waste to everything.

The neo-cons.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/30/2011 6:56:06 AM >

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 8:27:05 AM   
vincentML


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Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArizonaBossMan

Socialism enslaves. Good grief, the same tired arguments. 2012 can't come fast enough to clean out the rubbish in DC and elsewhere.


Riiiiiight. . . . i see the governors of Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, etc strenuously fighting against Federal assistance while praising the Republican Congress's cuts in FEMA funding. It's our disaster, damn it, keep your Big Govt Socialist hands off it!!! Resist enslavement. Naked sarcasm intended.

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 10:27:19 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		And isn't it ironic that the taxdollars of the half without health insurance in this country are spent by our govt. building hospitals in "developing" countries.

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 10:42:27 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		What isnt ironic is how prevantative medicine is always cheaper than curative. Its the curative base that drives up cost, which is why we are in the condition we are in today.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 12:46:23 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What isnt ironic is how prevantative medicine is always cheaper than curative. Its the curative base that drives up cost, which is why we are in the condition we are in today.


Ahhh. . . unless you run a gym not much profit in preventative medicine is there?

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 1:07:50 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Why is it everyone believes preventative medicine begins at the gym?

An example. Someone has diabetes. Its treatment is now curative.... but is it? Its also preventative in that you now need to prevent the other damage that the disease process can bring along, such as kidney failure, nerve and eye damage.

Preventative medicine is just that, preventing a disease. You CAN prevent a desease by treating one.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 1:27:01 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Why is it everyone believes preventative medicine begins at the gym?

An example. Someone has diabetes. Its treatment is now curative.... but is it? Its also preventative in that you now need to prevent the other damage that the disease process can bring along, such as kidney failure, nerve and eye damage.

Preventative medicine is just that, preventing a disease. You CAN prevent a desease by treating one.


i did not say it begins in a gym. Nope. Look again, taz. I said that was a way to profit from it, implying that pharmaceutical medicine is profit motivated. Please go back and retreive your sarcasm detector.

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RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 1:39:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

i did not say it begins in a gym. Nope. Look again, taz. I said that was a way to profit from it, implying that pharmaceutical medicine is profit motivated. Please go back and retreive your sarcasm detector.


Its the first comment directed when I speak about preventative medicine. And I still disagree with you. Its how its viewed, that disease can be prevented with simple diet and exercise. Some can, most cannot.

Nor do I have my sarcasm detector turned up, T made sure of that a few posts ago. I asked you why people believed gyms were the answer.

Owning a gym does make a profit... so does treatment if you really look at the numbers. Most people are treated curatively. Example, treating a stroke instead of preventing one by treating the high bp. 400 dollars, potentially, between Dr visits and bp meds, if the full and current price is paid without a prescription plan, is still cheaper than treating a stroke, which most hospitals end up writing off for indigent patients anyways.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: natural disasters another reason the US needs singl... - 4/30/2011 3:19:08 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
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quote:

Owning a gym does make a profit... so does treatment if you really look at the numbers. Most people are treated curatively. Example, treating a stroke instead of preventing one by treating the high bp. 400 dollars, potentially, between Dr visits and bp meds, if the full and current price is paid without a prescription plan, is still cheaper than treating a stroke, which most hospitals end up writing off for indigent patients anyways.


Okay. I do not disagree with this. But can't bp be treated curatively by serious change in diet and exercise? In some cases? Many cases? Most cases?

Would you agree/not agree that the existence of high tech medicine makes it the imperative default choice amongst doctors today in preventative protocol. Not my field but that is what i have heard. Would welcome your insights.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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