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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 8:57:29 AM   
Lucylastic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ermmmm pot calling the kettle grimy arse again Rich

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Were you up all night watching the wedding, are you just being fucking stupid and irrational for some other reason?





IIRC, Lucy, you were equating not supporting government dollars for abortion providers with being supportive of gang-rape. That's fucking stupid and irrational. Retract your demagogic bullshit, I'll retract the question. You're smarter than that. Feel free to bump the other thread if you want to get back into it.

You obviously didnt read all my posts, but Im not going there again, I proved my point, which is why you got all miffy with me and did the strawman,adhominem and smear, personal attack etc etc
Ya the context in this case is a matter of opinion, Im retracting nothing, just pointing out you were doing the same to me as you accused Owner of.

Own it at least, you normally have more balls than the others.

happy sunday


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(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 9:06:50 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		rich is just showing us that this thread really is about bush.lol

He couldn`t give a fuck about innocent civilians.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


The sanitizers point is that b/c bush/chaney got away with war crimes,they never really did them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Am i just really naive? How can we openly assassinate another country's leader (good or bad) without having the country declare war on us?




The answer would be no.

The policy of killing leaders was abandoned by the us decades ago.The bushies and neo-cons occasionally defend it or call for it(what in hitler were killed early,Saddam,etc.) but in general, we don`t do it,whether we`ve declared war or not.

And for good practical reasons,not just moral ones.

Non-combatants getting killed is going to happen.It`s what happened here.If Ghadafi really was concerned about his kin he`d moved them out weeks ago.Maybe Ghadafi thought he had/has the upper hand and didn`t need to.His mistake.I don`t have an once of sympathy for that terrorist/friend-of-big-oil.

I believe we should follow a policy of trying our best not to kill non-combs.Our main policy changes in Afghanistan after President Obama took command were designed to lower the un-acceptably high number of civilian/non-combatant deaths there.Those numbers are way down thought it still does happen.


Ghadafi will/has also use(d) the usual school/library/hospital collateral damage to gain sympathy."Look at what the bad NATO planes did the to Libya`s little bunny rabbits and kittens!!"

The question over whether we call this a war or not is a symantics game by cons, looking to dumb down the arguement.

President Obama`s critics seem really anxious to call this involvement a mistake but somehow can`t seem to explain why.

It`s the moral equivatant of chiding and even blaming a man, for running into a burning building to save a family,saying it`s not his business.


You really are stupid, aren't you? The why is, Libya has done nothing to attack the U.S. since Lockerbie under Reagan.
As for defending Bush, show me one post where I said invading Iraq was a good decision, or defended Quadaffi, Ghadaffi, Gadaffi, or however he's spelling it these days. My post had nothing to do with Bush, and EVERYTHING to do with the left's ongoing hypocrisy where it comes to President Obama.

You guys wanted your war for Oil, well, here it is, only it's your guy who's the perpetrator, not Bushie, and it won't be the US who benefits, after all, it's his energy secretary who wants to see $10 a gallon gas...


We,with our NATO allies, intervened and stopped a genocide.That`s the record,the history,what happened only weeks ago.Kinda like running into a burning building to save lives.You don`t wait for the slowest people to come around to intervene.



We`d do it again and I would support it.Obviously you and rich would be quite content to let a genocide happen.The only resistance to stopping the genocide in the former Yugoslavia was from conservatives so this jibes with that.





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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 9:19:25 AM   
Sanity


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Libya disabled children school hit in NATO strike

Its different now though...



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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 9:24:50 AM   
tweakabelle


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Has everyone forgotten that the actions in Libya have been authorised, in clear terms, by the UN Security Council, and that the involvement of foreign nations in the conflict there is pursuant to that UN Security Council Resolution?

Has everyone forgotten that a few weeks ago, Ghadaffi was promising genocide to the rebels and the inhabitants of Benghazi, Tobruk and other parts of eastern Libya?

Sorry folks, it's not an internal US matter. The only aspect of the situation that is internal to the US is whether the US participates or not in the UN authorised NATO-led activities. And the extent of that participation.

So it's not a case of the US assassinating Ghadaffi or not, even tho US drones were possibly the instrument used in the attack that resulted in deaths to Ghadaffi's family.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 9:32:03 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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The semantics game being played by some neo-con here is to dumb down the debate.

They aren`t honest enough to pass muster or are to cowardly to say what they really mean.It must be tough to opperate with such a burden,having to use code words and cryptics.

AMB and subrob doen`t seem to have that problem.....





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"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 10:04:52 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Simple comparisons of very complicated situations over-look that we can`t always or aren`t in a position to do everything or anything we want in a given country.



And this isn`t some whacky adventure alone into the unknown, like Iraq.

Really?  Babylon is in the bible you know, oh wait.

We`re not fighting a ground war there and aren`t doing all the air-strikes,work,etc.It`s fairly limited in scope and our fighting men and woman are fairly secure.From the start,the NATO involvement has been to stem brutal attacks already in progress and for protecting dense civilian populations that Ghadafi was content to carpet bomb.

says who?  media TV?  LOL

Without our help,it`s very possible the revolt would be over with Ghadafi prevailing.He has a shit load of arms and everything to lose so he`s going for broke.

Yes we will be happy to install another Sadam Hussien in the ME!

Listening to NPR last week I heard the former Ambassador to Syria under Jr. ,say that the reason we aren`t doing in Syria, what we`re doing in Libya, is that we can`t.He said the ruling classes control all the weapons and have highly trained and motivated militias.  He said a civilian population with a few small arms wouldn`t stand a chance.

He said that the civilian pop in Syria wasn`t pissed off enough yet to start a civil war but that the recent killings of demonstrators would start to turn regular folks against the government.At this point he said,the Syrian pres was using a strategy of punishing whole cities if there were/are demonstrations there.This keeps people in line.But twitter and facebook are connecting folks under the radar and may be the one real advantage regualar folks have over the government.

nah the intelligence agencies love it, save them th etrouble of propfiling people, just like all these gossip boards if you think this stuff is not being stashed away on some gub site.   lol



Just to indulge in some partisan analysis....





Wasn`t Ghadafi a buddy-buddy of ours recently?


so was sadam and the shaw of iran and the taliban! LOL


I remember the cons bragging about bringing him under their wing just after 911 and taking Libya off the terror list,doing oil deals,sucking his cock,etc.

What was that about?

whats behind door number 3?

The thread title is misleading.Assassination implies premeditate murder.This would be like saying Randi Weaver`s son was "assassinated" ,after getting into a gun battle with LEO`s.Someone calling that an assassination would be pandering to terrorist kooks who shoot at LEO`s. You start shoot`n up the place with your kin/kids around and they get hurt,it`s the ass holes`s fault.

the gub took the first shot, just like waco! 
does that count or doesn that fit into your little box of bullshit?

Implying that Ghadafi`s kin were assassinated is pandering to Ghadafi and his supporters.

Its also the truth but dont let that stop you, you are doing great!


What could be the reason for such a ridiculously whacko assertion like that?




because its only complicated to you.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/1/2011 10:05:31 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 10:09:17 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Has everyone forgotten that the actions in Libya have been authorised, in clear terms, by the UN Security Council,



oh thank God!

Everyone feels so much better now!

Good to know the boss authorized it!

Glad everything turned out ok.

oh as a side, speaking of genocide how are the Palestinians doing now days?  Living in the sea yet?






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/1/2011 10:12:03 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 10:19:01 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Am i just really naive? How can we openly assassinate another country's leader (good or bad) without having the country declare war on us?

pam


we as in america?

yes yo uare naive if that is what you are asking.

hell we did it to our own prezidentS plural and there was no war against the organizations that were involved!

we do have the videos of the security gaurds being ordered to get back from the limo and their objections to those orders all on film.

of course cointel people will play on patriot emotions to maintain the status quo.

If you are asking a serious question watch john perkins the economic hitman if its still out there and read quigley and brysinski etc etc etc and you will see its extremely easy

better yet read this:


SUN TZU ON THE ART OF WAR
THE OLDEST MILITARY TREATISE IN THE WORLD  Translated from the Chinese
By LIONEL GILES, M.A. (1910)
its fairly good but the methods have gone layered now days and impossible to get a conviction in any court.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/1/2011 10:25:50 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 2:37:26 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

Implying that Ghadafi`s kin were assassinated is pandering to Ghadafi and his supporters.

If nato was not trying to kill the people in the house then why did they hit it with three missiles?



What could be the reason for such a ridiculously whacko assertion like that?

Usually if someone targets you and attempts to kill you it would seem counter intuitive to assume anything other than they were attempting to murder you.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 2:44:31 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Impeach Obama and charge him for war crimes... Isn't that the typical progressive view point?

After all this IS an illegal war against a country who poses no threat to the U.S.


One might say the same thing about the other two wars we are in.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 2:59:02 PM   
Fightdirecto


Posts: 1101
Joined: 8/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Be means of a missile, or a bomb, NATO blew up a house with Kuhdaffy in it, killing the rogue leaders son, and three of his grandchildren.

Fair or foul?


Collateral damage.

One could reasonably argue that he was using his family as "human shields".


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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 3:01:25 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

One could reasonably argue that he was using his family as "human shields".


Only if one were brain dead

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/1/2011 4:51:26 PM   
subrob1967


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Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Has everyone forgotten that the actions in Libya have been authorised, in clear terms, by the UN Security Council, and that the involvement of foreign nations in the conflict there is pursuant to that UN Security Council Resolution?

Has everyone forgotten that a few weeks ago, Ghadaffi was promising genocide to the rebels and the inhabitants of Benghazi, Tobruk and other parts of eastern Libya?

Sorry folks, it's not an internal US matter. The only aspect of the situation that is internal to the US is whether the US participates or not in the UN authorised NATO-led activities. And the extent of that participation.

So it's not a case of the US assassinating Ghadaffi or not, even tho US drones were possibly the instrument used in the attack that resulted in deaths to Ghadaffi's family.


The same could and should be said about Iraq, after all they broke seven UN resolutions.

Owner59, you're right, I have no problem dumbing down the discussion for you to understand...You just refuse to see the hypocrisy.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 5:55:45 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Well, Rich, your timing was impeccable.  You posted this shortly before the most successful US-sponsored assassination in history.  IIRC, the only one.

One interesting comment from a CNN poster:

This is exactly the right kind of operation. A small unit of highly trained individuals with good intelligence go in and take out the target with no casualties themselves. Way to go SEAL team ! If this kind of tactic had been used from the beginning we would not have had to get into two extremely expensive and wasteful wars.


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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 6:33:09 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Bin Laden was (note the past tense ) different from what I had in mind, Steve. He may have had a country in his pocket (useless fucking Pakistani's!) but he wasn't the leader of one.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 6:34:50 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		And I will take this moment to say that I said that our trouble lies in the realm of the Pakistanis at the outset, and I agree now, which I didn't so much at first with you Rich, that Afghanistan is not something we really need to be involved in, which you did say at the outset. 

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 6:41:02 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I wonder if the Navy still has that "mission accomplished" banner from the aircraft carrier Bush landed on. Let's hang it on the gate at Bagram AB, and start coming home this afternoon.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 6:43:27 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I would like to see Iraq and Afghanistan american forces walk out the door thru Turkey, let them sleep in this morning and say, by mid-afternoon.

Lets get working on our problems here at home.

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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 7:04:08 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Libya disabled children school hit in NATO strike

Its different now though...



It certainly is.

Now we have you condemning what you have repeatedly praised in Iraq.

I guess that whole liberation thing goes out the window when it is done by a President you don't like.


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RE: Assassination of Foreign Leaders - 5/2/2011 7:06:41 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, especially because I said there were not going to be any sanitary strikes or whatever they are called, that notion is syrup for sheep, but I was roundly booed down on that.

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