RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (Full Version)

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ashjor911 -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:38:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Ash,  IMO he is dead-  but he died some years ago.   That this is merely a stunt- for photo ops and to ramp up the war on terror and extend the dollar.    (a reason why we are in Libya too, oil- the dollar)


Are you the one who shot him?
Did you see him with your own eyes, dead?
Do you think a welthy family will leave a brother in the sea? without having their bank accounts in US cleaned?
his own welth in KSA alone is more than 300.000.000 SR back in 1996 when it was frozen.

He is not dead becasue of that, maybe he is having a beer with his best friend bush (the father).



Ishtarr -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:41:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminAlpha

This thread is abouit his death. Stay on topic please and feel free to start another thread if you would like to discuss conspiracies. This is not the thread to do it on.


Actually, it's not, but thank you for trying to steer it on topic.

I will try to make the topic more clear, seeing that I guess I was rather ambiguous in my first post.

This thread is about the fact that the American ideals of justice, morality, fairness and legality where disregarded by it's own government -maybe out of necessity, maybe not that isn't the point of this thread- and that the American people, as far as I can tell, cheer on the fact that the ideals they stand for have been offended against.

Shooting him may have been the only way... I don't care to debate whether or not that is true or not.

But, even IF shooting him was the only way, it's still not in line with American ideals of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I don't understand how a population can feast BECAUSE -instead of despite- the fact that their ideals where offended against.

Thank you everybody for your perspectives.

Ishtar



Aylee -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:41:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In my reality confessing to the crime does not equate guilt.


What color is the sky on your planet?

I think this is why you make no sense to me.



Aylee -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:46:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr
But, even IF shooting him was the only way, it's still not in line with American ideals of how criminals are supposed to be treated.



Ishtarr, Osama was not a criminal. He was an enemy. He was treated as an enemy. He was treated with the American ideals of how you treat an enemy.



VideoAdminAlpha -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:48:23 AM)

Six of one, half dozen oif another----it is not about whether he is dead or not, that was my point :)



VideoAdminAlpha -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:51:39 AM)

Ok folks Im gonna start locking threads........stay on topic or start a new thread. Some of you are looking at possible moderation.



mnottertail -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:52:10 AM)

I will reiterate, right or wrong morally, is going to be subjective and open to a wide latitude of interpretations:

Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

But he is a casualty of war by any logic, even left-right catcalling is extremely subdued on this.

It's constitutional, it is agreed by the majority of the US as right and proper.  

It's what's on the cart.



pahunkboy -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:58:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminAlpha

This thread is abouit his death. Stay on topic please and feel free to start another thread if you would like to discuss conspiracies. This is not the thread to do it on.


Actually, it's not, but thank you for trying to steer it on topic.

I will try to make the topic more clear, seeing that I guess I was rather ambiguous in my first post.

This thread is about the fact that the American ideals of justice, morality, fairness and legality where disregarded by it's own government -maybe out of necessity, maybe not that isn't the point of this thread- and that the American people, as far as I can tell, cheer on the fact that the ideals they stand for have been offended against.

Shooting him may have been the only way... I don't care to debate whether or not that is true or not.

But, even IF shooting him was the only way, it's still not in line with American ideals of how criminals are supposed to be treated.

I don't understand how a population can feast BECAUSE -instead of despite- the fact that their ideals where offended against.

Thank you everybody for your perspectives.

Ishtar



IMO-  the picture is more balanced online-  rather then on TV.    Then there are those that want to believe anything the main media tells them.  Then there are the few that ask questions, and wont drop it.

I am perplexed too by the  jubilance.     On twitter - a batch of people did not even know who this guy  (OBL) was.

There is hypocrisy-  that we stand for the rule of law,  except for when we dont.    That hypocrisy is not a shock-  but the dancing in the streets over it IS- and a green light for more of the same.



thompsonx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 9:58:46 AM)

quote:

You have a presidente dear leader who went all over the world apologizing for America. He does ONE good thing. ONE smart thing. For that I am thankful. But y'all know he will start apologizing again. It's in the lefts DNA.


It is considered to be the manly thing to do. A real man appologizes when he has made a mistake.
Are you a real man?



juliaoceania -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:01:11 AM)

quote:

Really? You are aware that reprisals are legal under the war conventions, right? We actually have the wartime right of bombing and killing a community of 3000 civilian Al-Qaida supporters. Yet you have your panties in a twist over the execution of one self-proclaim murderer/terrorist. Do you actually KNOW the difference between enemy and criminal?


I do not think my "panties are in a twist" as you so eloquently stated. I am not sorry to see OBL sleeping with the fishes, either. What I am saying is that killing an unarmed man when we could try him as a war criminal is what the conventions of war state is the correct action. Shooting unarmed soldiers is not smiled upon, you are supposed to take them prisoner. Assassinations are banned... it is what it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention

You ask if I know the difference between an enemy and a criminal, this question posed by you shows that you do not understand it yourself. The words define concepts that are not mutually exclusive, and supposedly under the international treaties we signed on to, war is only justified based on the criminal behavior of leaders.


quote:

If you want to know OBL's side of the story there are several videos and tapes that were released from him. You might start with YouTube as they likely have them. I, on the other hand, am perfectly content with classing him as bat-shit fucking crazy.


I think serial killers are batshit crazy, still if one killed a member of my family I think I may want details their evil fucking heart held. Perhaps you might too.

As for the tapes holding the answers, hmmmmm, I did not want the narrative he sought to release. I would rather have his story challenged to get at deeper truths instead of propaganda.


quote:

You class OBL as a serial killer? That is a bizarre way of looking at it.


You are either choosing not to understand the analogy for your the sake of your argument, or you are not keeping up with the discussion.


quote:

Check Ground Zero. The remains are there. Those that were not found, that is. Or they are in the air we are breathing now.


Oh cute, again, either intentionally misunderstanding in a facetious way because you can't debate, or you can't keep up with the analogy. I need to waste my time spelling it out for you?

Trials reveal facts that might not otherwise ever be known. This happens ALL OF THE FUCKING TIME. People talk to authorities and they give information. Can you imagine the information OBL would have on his terror networks, etc etc etc? Perhaps you can't conceive of that because sometimes killin' just feels good, and you would rather feel good than with the thought of destruction of life than get some productive intel... whatever floats your boat.


quote:

Again, look up the difference between 'enemy' and 'criminal.'


Again, read the Geneva Conventions, you do not understand how terms cannot be mutually exclusive[8|]


quote:

Well, yes. Because he would be alive and in court. And he would be a rallying point for further attacks.


And we all know how we should pussy out instead of doing the right thing, not only for our own sense of wanting truth, getting justice, but because we may have gleaned information that could have completely destroyed that organization....










thompsonx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:03:35 AM)

FR

quote:

The only moral thing is to put down a rapid dog. That is what we did here.



Waite waite ...let me get this straight...you are going to shoot someones dog because it can run faster than you????



juliaoceania -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:07:05 AM)

quote:

But he is a casualty of war by any logic, even left-right catcalling is extremely subdued on this.

It's constitutional, it is agreed by the majority of the US as right and proper.  

It's what's on the cart.


I would agree that there is no way that anyone could assert the US did anything improper in this case. We were not there, we did not see the choices that were available to the Navy Seals who executed this action, I surely am not going to say they did anything "wrong", couldn't prove it, either way.



windchymes -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:08:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

The only moral thing is to put down a rapid dog. That is what we did here.


OMG, you want to shoot greyhounds???



imperatrixx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:09:23 AM)

It would be impossible to put bin Laden on trial in the US. You'd never be able to find 12 impartial jurors.

There's also a difference between "they did it first," with "they" being an abstract culture or group (Muslims, Americans, Europeans, Christians) and saying "he did it first," with "him" being a specific person who committed a specific act of violence.

Bin Laden wasn't killed because of an accident of nationality or religion, he was killed because of his role in a specific event.



thompsonx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:10:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Interesting take on things Ish.

The Christian religion is partially based on the morality of "turning the other cheek", to break the cycle that you are pointing out.

But few have asked if the killing of OBL was moral: all the posts I have seen have simply questioned the legality of it, which is all I've addressed.

Your post is the first I've seen addressing the morality aspect of it.

I'll be interested in following the debate.

Firm



There is nothing to debate.

A terrorist is a criminal.

Kinda like franklin,washington and jefferson according to king george.

This is no different from what police do everyday.

If alleged criminals resist arrest then they are tacitly admitting their guilt.

In some states it is legal to resist an illegal arrest with deadly force(gregorio cortez)

Regardless of whether you agree with that, you cannot argue that he chose his own fate.

How so?

Legality is based on morality.

It used to be legal to incenerate jews...hardly moral








mnottertail -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:13:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

But he is a casualty of war by any logic, even left-right catcalling is extremely subdued on this.

It's constitutional, it is agreed by the majority of the US as right and proper.  

It's what's on the cart.


I would agree that there is no way that anyone could assert the US did anything improper in this case. We were not there, we did not see the choices that were available to the Navy Seals who executed this action, I surely am not going to say they did anything "wrong", couldn't prove it, either way.


And I see very clearly and find myself in some floss wrapped untouchable agreement with many of your points stated clearly and logically and strewn about this thread.

I suffer a vast moral turpitude, and that does not give me firm footing to argue decisively for one and against another view. I can only plead mugwumpery.  Same as an abortion debate here. I am not committed in the same way because of circumstance that another may be.



thompsonx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:20:00 AM)

quote:

But, even IF shooting him was the only way, it's still not in line with American ideals of how criminals are supposed to be treated


I would suggest that you know little of american history.



thompsonx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:24:20 AM)

quote:

And I see very clearly and find myself in some floss wrapped untouchable agreement with many of your points stated clearly and logically and strewn about this thread.


You trying to get in that girl's knickers ron?



mnottertail -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:28:31 AM)

yes, but not rapidly, they shoot fast dogs, huntie.



thompsonx -> RE: A "Fast Reply" to all the Osama topics out there. (5/4/2011 10:34:14 AM)

fr:

double post



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