RE: Pink Floyd re-issue

RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

Kana -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 6:10:08 AM)
I forgot Tom Waits and Lou Reed. Damnit...and while I'm at it, I should give a nod to Jagger/Richards as well.

farglebargle -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 6:29:38 AM)
There's an 80/20 split now between DVD and Blu-Ray for video use right now. I don't think audio only is tracked at the same level of detail, but the number of Blu-Ray audio users must be microscopic. Remember HD-DVD? How about laserdisk in both CLV and CAV variants? DAT? Physical media is dead, except in niche and collectors markets. And it's a good thing. Otherwise where would I store the 1500 lossless dead shows at archive.org? ( They fit in about 2TB, btw once the shns are converted to flac... )

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 6:33:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Lennon isn't rated so much as a lyricist as far as I know but more as a song writer. You probably think Waters is one of the best but I reckon few think he remotely approaches the lyrical quality of Lou Reed or Bob Dylan. That was one of the criticisms by a few journos of "The Wall" when it was released - that he didn't have the skills of a high quality lyricist to put the concept of the project into practice without it sounding hamfisted and overwrought. Bob Dylan is the one lyricist I will say is undeniably superior to Waters. But, Dylan happens to be mentioned in discussions of our country's greatest poets. Any talk of greatest lyricists begins and ends with Dylan. Kudos for acknowledging that but its a yes and no as to Dylan being an exception as one mustn't forget Leonard Cohen. quote: Ray Davies and Waters compete for number two. I give the edge to Davies due to Waters not hitting a mature lyrical form until 75. I would suggets Davies wins there although I'm not saying Waters couldn't be good. I value some of the lyrics on side one of Meddle. Tracks like Grantchester Meadows and Cirrus Minor are also very nice. I think his weaknesses were apparent when he takes himself too seriously (thats 99.9999% of the time these days) and plays the tortured high concept artist. quote: Edited to add: Dylan never had ventured to such ambitious projects like The Wall though... nor did he have bass lines as tasty as Let There Be More Light. Dylan probably had the good sense not to touch "ambituous" projects like "The Wall" [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Kana I forgot Tom Waits and Lou Reed. Damnit...and while I'm at it, I should give a nod to Jagger/Richards as well. Exactly right, there are many songwriters and lyricists that are at least as good as Waters and quite a few that are better. Donald Fagan is far far better than Waters. Many of the estalished folk/folk-rock musicians are too, e.g. Neil Young would own Waters for lyrical brilliance, even that burnt out drunk Shane McGowan would typically do better. [8D]

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 7:01:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle There's an 80/20 split now between DVD and Blu-Ray for video use right now. I don't think audio only is tracked at the same level of detail, but the number of Blu-Ray audio users must be microscopic. You may have made my argument for me because Blu-ray is still a relatively new format yet it has caught on already in a bg way as 20% is a big slice of the video market. DVD is a massive seller, the most quickly established format of all time. It will take a long time for it to be replaced but Blu-ray is certain to make that a reality. You are correct that Blu-ray audio is hardly selling but it is still very new. Thats why I'm probably the only one saying it could succeed but the reason is solid in my opinion - Blu-ray audio is now an integral part of the Blu-ray standard, playable on hardware widely available in many homes. Success could be found with a technological piggy back ride on the video equivalent. quote: Remember HD-DVD? How about laserdisk in both CLV and CAV variants? DAT? Physical media is dead, except in niche and collectors markets. And it's a good thing. Otherwise where would I store the 1500 lossless dead shows at archive.org? ( They fit in about 2TB, btw once the shns are converted to flac... ) Indeed you are correct that many formats have fallen by the wayside but there are good reasons. HD-DVD died due competition to Blu-ray. DAT was too expensive to manufacture compared to CD and had little support from record companies. Cost issues were the case with Laser Disc too. Those big discs cost $$$ - too much to make it anything but specialist.

farglebargle -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 9:25:02 AM)
If you're talking about costs, NOTHING is cheaper than a file.

NuevaVida -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 9:41:17 AM)
Just wanted to add, if you're going to be talking about great song writers, don't forget Van Morrison. Not quite Dylan, but pretty awesome, in my book.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 10:17:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh BTW does anyone know that actual name of the synthesiser that Pink Floyd used on Dark Side of the Moon (and briefly before that for droning sounds on Obsecured by the Clouds)? It was an EMS-VCS3. If youre interested in early synths this is great, along with parts 2 and 3 EMS And good to see another nod to Donald Fagen. Some are put off by the "insider" aspects of some of the earlier songs, but the imagery of "Home at Last", "Don't Take Me Alive" and "Babylon Sisters" are awesome. Leonard Cohen I would call a poet. I don't think a really great SONG came out of the poetry. While Dylan is also considered a poet, I think he crosses into songwriter a lot more easily than LC.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 11:03:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh I don't agree that "The Wall" is an opera - if that were the case then why was he planning to do an operatic version of it recently? Its unquestionably an opera, it has all of the musical and dramatic elements of traditional operas. And no, he's not considering an "operatic version" of the Wall. You may be getting two different projects confused. He was and is still (afaik) considering a Broadway run the Wall, and he wrote and produced an opera "Ca Ira".

TheRaptorJesus -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 11:33:07 AM)
Waters himself said that while it has elements of an opera, it's closer to rock theater during a video interview he recently had in the UK. Either way, semantics... it's intentionally dramatic by the nature of what it is. The Wall is exactly what it was supposed to be and was done masterfully.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 12:04:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh I don't agree that "The Wall" is an opera - if that were the case then why was he planning to do an operatic version of it recently? Its unquestionably an opera, it has all of the musical and dramatic elements of traditional operas. And no, he's not considering an "operatic version" of the Wall. You may be getting two different projects confused. He was and is still (afaik) considering a Broadway run the Wall, and he wrote and produced an opera "Ca Ira". You're right - my bad - its a musical he is doing. I accept there are operatic elements to The Wall such as awful muck like "Bring the boys back home" and "The Trial" but overall it does not share the common elements of an opera or have a distinct operatic structure. The same musical bombast and overwrought lyrical style extended well beyond "The Wall" onto The Final Cut and through much of his solo career so to be honest I find it hard to accept the lyrical hysteria on "The Wall" was due to a deliberate artistic choice of emulating an opera. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh BTW does anyone know that actual name of the synthesiser that Pink Floyd used on Dark Side of the Moon (and briefly before that for droning sounds on Obsecured by the Clouds)? It was an EMS-VCS3. If youre interested in early synths this is great, along with parts 2 and 3 EMS It was a bit of a trick question - it wasn't strictly a "VCS3" which was a distinct synthesiser introduced in 1969. It was an EMS Synthi AKS introduced in 1972 which included one of the first digital 8 bit sequencers in the lid! At that time people used more limited analogue 8 step Moog 963 sequencers which were really expensive. The synthesis generation was similar to a VCS3 so its often cited as a VCS3 but I deduced its the AKS that after Gilmore mentioned the sequencer which is unique to that model. They only learnt to use the sequencer after recording "Obsecured" - partly why there are only drones on that album. Without it they couldn't have done "On the run". Cool clip, thanks - old synthesisers are fascinating. quote: And good to see another nod to Donald Fagen. Some are put off by the "insider" aspects of some of the earlier songs, but the imagery of "Home at Last", "Don't Take Me Alive" and "Babylon Sisters" are awesome. Fagan was fucking masterful which is why I rate him better than Waters. Unlike W he had a lot of humour as found on tracks like Barrytown and Gaucho. My Old School is one of the best good time songs of all time I reckon. By contrast Charlie Freak is a very dark track. BTW the album "Gaucho" has to be one of the most finely produced albums of all time. quote: Leonard Cohen I would call a poet. I don't think a really great SONG came out of the poetry. While Dylan is also considered a poet, I think he crosses into songwriter a lot more easily than LC. Poetry not making great songs??? Wrong, very very wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIQOmbIMYls - your right that Cohen is a poet but IMO much more than that...

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 12:18:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh I don't agree that "The Wall" is an opera - if that were the case then why was he planning to do an operatic version of it recently? Its unquestionably an opera, it has all of the musical and dramatic elements of traditional operas. And no, he's not considering an "operatic version" of the Wall. You may be getting two different projects confused. He was and is still (afaik) considering a Broadway run the Wall, and he wrote and produced an opera "Ca Ira". You're right - my bad - its a musical he is doing. I acknowledge there are operatic elements to The Wall such as awful muck like "Bring the boys back home" and "The Trial" but overall it does not share the common elements of an opera or have an operatic structure. The same musical bombast and overwrought lyrical style extended well beyond "The Wall" onto The Final Cut and through much of his solo career so I find it hard to accept the hysteria on "The Wall" was due to a deliberate artistic choice of emulating an opera. quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh BTW does anyone know that actual name of the synthesiser that Pink Floyd used on Dark Side of the Moon (and briefly before that for droning sounds on Obsecured by the Clouds)? It was an EMS-VCS3. If youre interested in early synths this is great, along with parts 2 and 3 EMS It was a bit of a trick question - it wasn't strickly a "VCS3" which was a distinct synthesiser introduced in 1969. It was an EMS Synthi AKS introduced in 1972 which included one of the first digital 8 bit sequencers into the lid. At that time people used more limited analogue 8 step Moog 963 sequencers which were really expensive. The synthesis generation was similar to a VCS3 so its often cited as a VCS3 but I deduced its the AKS that after Gilmore mentioned the sequencer which is unique to that model. They only learnt to use the sequencer after recording "Obsecured" - partly why there are only drones on that album. Without it they couldn't have done "On the run". Yeah old synthesisers are fascinating. quote: And good to see another nod to Donald Fagen. Some are put off by the "insider" aspects of some of the earlier songs, but the imagery of "Home at Last", "Don't Take Me Alive" and "Babylon Sisters" are awesome. Fagan was fucking masterful which is why I rate him better than Waters. My Old School is one of the best good time songs of all time I reckon. Charlie Freak is another great track. quote: Leonard Cohen I would call a poet. I don't think a really great SONG came out of the poetry. While Dylan is also considered a poet, I think he crosses into songwriter a lot more easily than LC. Poetry not making great songs??? Wrong, very very wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIQOmbIMYls - your right that Cohen is a poet but IMO much more than that... And at that point it comes down to taste..except the opera part. The Wall has all of the elements of opera..an overture, an opening act with aria, chorus, recitatives, common musical themes, all of which are revisited in the second act, a finale, and a musical curtain call. It also has all of the dramatic/narrative aspects of opera. It is much more an opera than other "rock operas" such as Tommy or Jesus Christ Superstar, the former more operetta and the latter more rock musical. The word musical bringing to mind one of my favorite images from RW: "We cower in our shelters With our hands over our ears Lloyd-Webber's awful stuff Runs for years and years and years An earthquake hits the theatre But the operetta lingers Then the piano lid comes down And break his fucking fingers It's a miracle" As far as taste goes, I wouldnt call Story of Isaac a "song", much less a great song. Its an unlistenable recitative! That you can enjoy it is just taste :).

Kana -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 12:26:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Just wanted to add, if you're going to be talking about great song writers, don't forget Van Morrison. Not quite Dylan, but pretty awesome, in my book. I considered Van, and Neil (And I bow to no one in my appreciation for Neil's immense talents), but really, while they are both good, I don't see either as having the impact of the Cohen, Simon, Dylan and Bruce's of the world. Same with Fagen, who's songs were always seen as too detached. Steve Earle falls in this category (The second tier), as do Davies, Wilson, and Bowie. Townsend is the one guy who comes closest to cracking the elite echelons in my book, though I do hafta throw a nod to Chuck Berry, who wrote an amazing number of great songs.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 12:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy And at that point it comes down to taste..except the opera part. The Wall has all of the elements of opera..an overture, an opening act with aria, chorus, recitatives, common musical themes, all of which are revisited in the second act, a finale, and a musical curtain call. It also has all of the dramatic/narrative aspects of opera. It is much more an opera than other "rock operas" such as Tommy or Jesus Christ Superstar, the former more operetta and the latter more rock musical. True calling Tommy a rock opera was always a cod. It just related to a piece Townsend did on the Who's previous album called Rael. AN interesting argument but I think you are seeing too much in The Wall - its nothing more than a leaden concept album with a beginning, middle and end (and ideas above its station) - an artefact not uncommon in the 70's. quote: The word musical bringing to mind one of my favorite images from RW: "We cower in our shelters With our hands over our ears Lloyd-Webber's awful stuff Runs for years and years and years An earthquake hits the theatre But the operetta lingers Then the piano lid comes down And break his fucking fingers It's a miracle" Thanks, that's an excellent the assholism of Roger Waters right there from Amused to Death (wish he would develop a sense of humour - he needs it badly). Loyd-Webber is actually a pretty nice guy surprisingly even if he's not a "genius". Waters could learn a few things about aesthetics from him but he's just too arrogant to even realise that fact. quote: As far as taste goes, I wouldnt call Story of Isaac a "song", much less a great song. Its an unlistenable recitative! That you can enjoy it is just taste :). You need to go back to the root of aesthetics. Taste and an appreciation of beauty is subjective but can be appreciated from a far too. "Story of Isaac" and a few other tracks by Cohen have a purity and a power that the entire ugly edifice of "The Wall" simply cannot match. A few lines of sheer greatness and a simple guitar line is all it takes my friend. [;)]

lazarus1983 -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 12:34:34 PM)
Alright, willbe, you have an obvious dislike of the Gilmour-led PF. But what about Gilmour's solo work after PF? The On An Island era, not the About Face era.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 1:20:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle If you're talking about costs, NOTHING is cheaper than a file. Yeah if you download it for naught! [;)] However, Blu-ray could end up being as cheap as DVD's which are sometimes given out for nothing in papers these days so cost mustn't be huge. I for one prefer a physical medium anyhoo. I reckon people appreciate albums more as distinct physical entities rather than just as a collection of a gagillion tracks. quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Just wanted to add, if you're going to be talking about great song writers, don't forget Van Morrison. Not quite Dylan, but pretty awesome, in my book. I considered Van, and Neil (And I bow to no one in my appreciation for Neil's immense talents), but really, while they are both good, I don't see either as having the impact of the Cohen, Simon, Dylan and Bruce's of the world. Same with Fagen, who's songs were always seen as too detached. Steve Earle falls in this category (The second tier), as do Davies, Wilson, and Bowie. Townsend is the one guy who comes closest to cracking the elite echelons in my book, though I do hafta throw a nod to Chuck Berry, who wrote an amazing number of great songs. Yeah Chuck was great. Paul Simon did some good stuff like "Bridge over troubled waters". Like some of Richard Thompsons lyrics. Many used to say Van was the greatest vocalist around which I never understood TBH. Have to disagree with you over Neil Young though as he had huge influence over other singer songwriters, and indie rock with Crazy Horse.

NuevaVida -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 1:53:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Many used to say Van was the greatest vocalist around which I never understood TBH. Have to disagree with you over Neil Young though as he had huge influence over other singer songwriters, and indie rock with Crazy Horse. Kana, I agree, Van & Neil aren't in the same camp as Dylan and Cohen, (and I gasped at myself for forgetting Neil, who is freaking amazing, in my opinion), but I felt they deserved a nod. [:)] Wants, I wouldn't necessarily call Van an impressive "vocalist" since I think he actually lacks in actual singing talent, but his lyrics and song compositions are rather phenomenal. Interestingly enough, the Van and Neil concerts I went to ranked among the worst (not including the CSNY2K tour which ties with McCartney for the best concert of all time).

Kana -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 2:05:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle If you're talking about costs, NOTHING is cheaper than a file. Yeah if you download it for naught! [;)] However, Blu-ray could end up being as cheap as DVD's which are sometimes given out for nothing in papers these days so cost mustn't be huge. I for one prefer a physical medium anyhoo. I reckon people appreciate albums more as distinct physical entities rather than just as a collection of a gagillion tracks. quote: ORIGINAL: Kana quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Just wanted to add, if you're going to be talking about great song writers, don't forget Van Morrison. Not quite Dylan, but pretty awesome, in my book. I considered Van, and Neil (And I bow to no one in my appreciation for Neil's immense talents), but really, while they are both good, I don't see either as having the impact of the Cohen, Simon, Dylan and Bruce's of the world. Same with Fagen, who's songs were always seen as too detached. Steve Earle falls in this category (The second tier), as do Davies, Wilson, and Bowie. Townsend is the one guy who comes closest to cracking the elite echelons in my book, though I do hafta throw a nod to Chuck Berry, who wrote an amazing number of great songs. Yeah Chuck was great. Paul Simon did some good stuff like "Bridge over troubled waters". Like some of Richard Thompsons lyrics. Many used to say Van was the greatest vocalist around which I never understood TBH. Have to disagree with you over Neil Young though as he had huge influence over other singer songwriters, and indie rock with Crazy Horse. Don't get me wrong. I love Neil, especially his stuff w/ Crazy Horse and I've seen him about 15 times. I just don't see his lyrics as having the depth and maturity that Dylan, Cohen and even a young Springsteen had. And frankly, much as I like the man, some of his lyrics are painfully naive and awkward. I just can't compare "Hey hey my my, rock and roll" will never die with something like "Make crosses of your lovers, throw roses in the rain, waste your summer prayin in vain for a savior to rise from these streets."

LinnaeaBorealis -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 2:10:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy March 30, 1994 [image]local://upfiles/265074/2B2EC7E8E2814DF2B5FFD5D44814B8F5.jpg[/image] FUCK!!! That's a lotta freckles!!!

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 3:02:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lazarus1983 Alright, willbe, you have an obvious dislike of the Gilmour-led PF. But what about Gilmour's solo work after PF? The On An Island era, not the About Face era. No, I don't have a dislike for it at all ...it was clearly a whole is greater than the sum of the parts thing There is that distinctive DG tone and sensibility that makes a PF song a PF song, not a RW song. "Comfortably Numb" without DG's lead would not be the powerhouse that it is. And just because I think that Doyle Bramhall and Snowy White totally outdid DG on that song, I do recognize they are building on DG's melody...what they would have wound up with only RWs melody and lyrics might have been great too, but it wouldnt be "Comfortably Numb" as we know and (most of us) love! Recent DG is pleasant enough , but I would relegate it to background music, not serious listening. His solo work, including some from the About Face era, somehow feels like parts of the songs are missing. Usually it feels like a lot of introduction, a very brief main theme, and then no resolution. (I wont harp on the lyrics again!) If I can find an example later I will...its a bit hard to describe but there are a few songs like that.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/14/2011 3:04:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh You need to go back to the root of aesthetics. Taste and an appreciation of beauty is subjective but can be appreciated from a far too. "Story of Isaac" and a few other tracks by Cohen have a purity and a power that the entire ugly edifice of "The Wall" simply cannot match. A few lines of sheer greatness and a simple guitar line is all it takes my friend. [;)] We'll have to agree to disagree!

Page: << < prev 4 5 [6] 7 8 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.09375