RE: Pink Floyd re-issue

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WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/15/2011 8:05:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Thanks for the detailed reply. I don't see how Pink/Roger was accepting his guilt. What you didn't mention is the delivery of the lyrics. Working from memory here as I don't want to pollute my ears any more after hearing Lady Gaga earlier (Lady Kaka anyone?) but the lyrics are delivered in such a way as to clearly indicate Pink/Roger is being persecuted by the court unjustly. They are all caricatures but overwhelmingly ugly and very negative. The wife is fiendish, the mother stifling and reproachful, and the teacher wants to punish him. Worst of all is the Judge. He comes across as a malign tyrannical bully even if the sentence is comical (perhaps unwittingly lol). You left out the part of the line which makes it come across differently IMHO: "The way you made them suffer/your exquisite wife and mother/fills me with the urge to defecate". Also I'm not sure they are different facets of his subconscious as they run through the story as real people ("Mother, One of my turns etc."). Although I don't agree it is very interesting how differently others interpret the album. I pretty much agree with Raptor for a lot of reasons: The Trial is all in his head. Its an internal conflict between continuing to hide behind the wall and tearing it down. The judge, the only character who wasnt part of his real life, is a worm, but the worms represent the negative aspects of the real people and events in his life. They have eaten into his brain..ie his brain is part of the worms and vice versa. The crime he is on trial for is showing feelings..Pink is terrified to allow himself to feel anything because of the risk of pain, and the Worm/Judge is there to decide whether he will continue to hide behind the Wall or be exposed. But most importantly the imagined characters of real people DONT WANT "worm justice". They want to mete out their own punishment. Why? Because by punishing him with the same behaviors (exaggerated in his mind to cartoonish proportions) that caused him to retreat in the first place, he has justification to stay behind the Wall. The schoomaster wants to flog him, the wife wants Domme him. "She" accuses him of breaking up homes...but the wife is the one who cheated on him in real life. He is blaming himself for her withdrawal from him. The "mother" wants to hide him from the potential of pain of the real world. He sees them as his real life tormenters, but also his excuse for not facing reality But ultimately the worm sentences him to the exposure that Pink really wants by tearing down all his protections, so that he can rebuild as a normal person. Wow I'm impressed by how much detail you get out of it. lol Some things hit home and other stuff doesn't but I suspect I haven't studied the lyrics even remotely as closely as you. Don't know if some will see that as a negative or a positive! lol I agree that it may not be an actual event in the story. I felt it was a metaphor to enable some sort of resolution but don't see how each character could necessarily be facets of himself. To my mind the song represents a metaphorical court where he is punished by the grand worm, and in a sense is set free in the Rousseau-ian sense, similar to the punishment he could have endured at school (exposed to your peers), this tears down the wall so to speak by crushing any illusions but it is hardly a personal victory although he is to an extent liberated. If you haven't already I suggest you check out "Berlin" to see what you get out of it!

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/15/2011 8:10:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh . If you haven't already I suggest you check out "Berlin" to see what you get out of it! Lou Reed's Berlin?

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/15/2011 8:12:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh . If you haven't already I suggest you check out "Berlin" to see what you get out of it! Lou Reed's Berlin? Ya, you didn't seem to like him before but I reckon its one of the most powerful and quite frankly disturbing albums of all time. As a concept piece it is a masterpiece in my opinion and shares the same producer as The Wall although it sounds nothing like it.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/15/2011 8:26:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh . If you haven't already I suggest you check out "Berlin" to see what you get out of it! Lou Reed's Berlin? Ya, you didn't seem to like him before but I reckon its one of the most powerful and quite frankly disturbing albums of all time. As a concept piece it is a masterpiece in my opinion and shares the same producer as The Wall although it sounds nothing like it. Ezrin received co-producer credit but the production was just about all RW. Ezrin was called in mainly as an arbiter between DG and RW. Its been 35 years or more since I listened to "Berlin". I liked it a lot more than "Transformer" at the time, but certainly wasn't as impressed with it as you are. I'll track down a copy ;

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/15/2011 9:57:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh . If you haven't already I suggest you check out "Berlin" to see what you get out of it! Lou Reed's Berlin? Ya, you didn't seem to like him before but I reckon its one of the most powerful and quite frankly disturbing albums of all time. As a concept piece it is a masterpiece in my opinion and shares the same producer as The Wall although it sounds nothing like it. Ezrin received co-producer credit but the production was just about all RW. Ezrin was called in mainly as an arbiter between DG and RW. Its been 35 years or more since I listened to "Berlin". I liked it a lot more than "Transformer" at the time, but certainly wasn't as impressed with it as you are. I'll track down a copy ; I felt the same way about Berlin vs. Transformer. Just a few tracks appealed but I heard the remaster of Transformer on a high quality system it came alive. The woody double bass of Walk on the Wild side just jumped out of the speakers and the atmosphere surrounding the tracks was exceptional. It was as if it captured a slice of life even if most tracks weren't particularly profound other than Andy's Chest and Perfect Day. Berlin is the complete opposite, really about as bleak as it can get particularly on the second side (last four tracks). If you want to buy it, get the original studio album rather than the live performance from around 2007 as the latter lacks the intimacy of the original (almost inevitably).

TheRaptorJesus -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 10:38:18 AM)
David Gilmour made his guest spot on Roger's Wall show in London a couple days ago. Nick Mason showed up too. All of you who live over yonder and weren't there are scum... pure scum.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 10:43:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus David Gilmour made his guest spot on Roger's Wall show in London a couple days ago. Nick Mason showed up too. All of you who live over yonder and weren't there are scum... pure scum. review and pictures And excellent video of DG doing CN

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 6:48:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Hear the lark and harken to the barking of the dogfox, gone to ground. Can't help but notice that after I said Grantchester Meadows was one of Roger's better lyrical efforts (as opposed to the pretentious tortured artist crap from The Wall), Willbe uses a part of it as his signature. A coincidence? [8D] Another Roger lyric I like is "Green Is the Colour": Heavy hung the canopy of blue/Shade my eyes and I can see you/White is the light that shines through the dress that you wore. BTW don't know if others agree but one of the things I like about "Meddle" is the lyrics. Tracks like "Fearless" have a transcendent quality without shoving it in the listeners face. Significantly IMO they were a group effort unlike with later albums.

TheRaptorJesus -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 7:17:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Hear the lark and harken to the barking of the dogfox, gone to ground. Can't help but notice that after I said Grantchester Meadows was one of Roger's better lyrical efforts (as opposed to the pretentious tortured artist crap from The Wall), Willbe uses a part of it as his signature. A coincidence? [8D] Another Roger lyric I like is "Green Is the Colour": Heavy hung the canopy of blue/Shade my eyes and I can see you/White is the light that shines through the dress that you wore. BTW don't know if others agree but one of the things I like about "Meddle" is the lyrics. Tracks like "Fearless" have a transcendent quality without shoving it in the listeners face. Significantly IMO they were a group effort unlike with later albums. Wow, I'd consider it just the opposite (I think Roger probably would too). The reason the lyrics weren't listed until Dark Side of the Moon was because the band wasn't confident enough in them before them (though I'd say things like 'Remember a Day' and 'Echoes' more than warrant printing). I can understand but don't relate to complaints of later stuff being overwrought. If you try to be epic and can pull it off... it's perfect. They pulled it off every time. The best thing about the lyrics on The Wall and The Final Cut are the sophistication of the language he uses. The first one to hit my head is a clever little bit from 'Your Possible Pasts': She stood in the doorway/ The ghost of a smile/ haunting her face like a cheap hotel sign. It's lyrical but could stand on its own as prose. To me, that's a big measure of a poet's skill is their ability to write poetry as if it were prose with rhythm and rhyme. There's a marked improvement from album to album with Water's lyricism, I'd say.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 7:19:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Hear the lark and harken to the barking of the dogfox, gone to ground. Can't help but notice that after I said Grantchester Meadows was one of Roger's better lyrical efforts (as opposed to the pretentious tortured artist crap from The Wall), Willbe uses a part of it as his signature. A coincidence? [8D] Another Roger lyric I like is "Green Is the Colour": Heavy hung the canopy of blue/Shade my eyes and I can see you/White is the light that shines through the dress that you wore. BTW don't know if others agree but one of the things I like about "Meddle" is the lyrics. Tracks like "Fearless" have a transcendent quality without shoving it in the listeners face. Significantly IMO they were a group effort unlike with later albums. Not coincidence, but you dont get all the credit either ;) It was my signature for quite a while and I changed it maybe 8 or 9 months ago. This thread and the lyrics thread got me back into the PF mood. "Fearless" is ruined by the football ending, imo...maybe it wouldnt be if I were a Brit. My profile had a few lines from "Echoes" in it for quite a while after Rick died. I also love the word play and feel of "San Tropez". "Sooner than wait for A break in the weather, I'll gather my far-flung Thoughts together. Speeding away On the wind to a new day. And if you're alone I'll come home. " While "UmmaGumma" was my PF intro it was certainly "Meddle" that got me hooked. (I had a fistfight with my roommate when he opened and played my brand new "UmmaGumma" without my permission. It helped that I was basically incoherent at the time and walked in during Several Species!) Then I went back to UmmaGumma with the benefit of hearing where they were headed.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 9:26:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Hear the lark and harken to the barking of the dogfox, gone to ground. Can't help but notice that after I said Grantchester Meadows was one of Roger's better lyrical efforts (as opposed to the pretentious tortured artist crap from The Wall), Willbe uses a part of it as his signature. A coincidence? [8D] Another Roger lyric I like is "Green Is the Colour": Heavy hung the canopy of blue/Shade my eyes and I can see you/White is the light that shines through the dress that you wore. BTW don't know if others agree but one of the things I like about "Meddle" is the lyrics. Tracks like "Fearless" have a transcendent quality without shoving it in the listeners face. Significantly IMO they were a group effort unlike with later albums. Wow, I'd consider it just the opposite (I think Roger probably would too). The reason the lyrics weren't listed until Dark Side of the Moon was because the band wasn't confident enough in them before them (though I'd say things like 'Remember a Day' and 'Echoes' more than warrant printing). I can understand but don't relate to complaints of later stuff being overwrought. If you try to be epic and can pull it off... it's perfect. They pulled it off every time. The best thing about the lyrics on The Wall and The Final Cut are the sophistication of the language he uses. The first one to hit my head is a clever little bit from 'Your Possible Pasts': She stood in the doorway/ The ghost of a smile/ haunting her face like a cheap hotel sign. It's lyrical but could stand on its own as prose. To me, that's a big measure of a poet's skill is their ability to write poetry as if it were prose with rhythm and rhyme. There's a marked improvement from album to album with Water's lyricism, I'd say. Agreed, Remember a day is a very good track. It is a shame Rick Wright didn't keep up with the writing after 1968. To the best of my knowledge its noted that the lyrics on Meddle were a shared effort, and the band members other than Roger co-wrote or wrote some lyrics by themselves during this time although he was still the main lyricist. The thing is that I feel Roger didn't pull it off with the Epic stuff. He is well capable of writing very good songs but ambition and ego got the better of him starting with "Wish you were here" which is still a good album. It can be heard with Welcome to the Machine especially. It got worse with Amimals. It climaxed with "The Wall"/"The Final Cut" so don't see improvement. "The ghost of a smile/haunting her face like a cheap hotel sign." doesn't work well enough to stand on its own divorced of music in black and white in a book IMO. Even some of Dylan's work which I hold in very high regard don't quite hit thatt mark. I felt another track on that album had better lyrics - Two suns in the sunset. Roger bashes one over the head - there isn't any subtlety or grace in the lryics. If you and Willbe like I'll post up a couple of tracks from Berlin that may help illustrate what I mean by Roger's limitations dealing with big themes although some songs make for gruesome listening.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Pink Floyd re-issue (5/17/2011 9:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Hear the lark and harken to the barking of the dogfox, gone to ground. Can't help but notice that after I said Grantchester Meadows was one of Roger's better lyrical efforts (as opposed to the pretentious tortured artist crap from The Wall), Willbe uses a part of it as his signature. A coincidence? [8D] Another Roger lyric I like is "Green Is the Colour": Heavy hung the canopy of blue/Shade my eyes and I can see you/White is the light that shines through the dress that you wore. BTW don't know if others agree but one of the things I like about "Meddle" is the lyrics. Tracks like "Fearless" have a transcendent quality without shoving it in the listeners face. Significantly IMO they were a group effort unlike with later albums. Not coincidence, but you dont get all the credit either ;) It was my signature for quite a while and I changed it maybe 8 or 9 months ago. This thread and the lyrics thread got me back into the PF mood. "Fearless" is ruined by the football ending, imo...maybe it wouldnt be if I were a Brit. My profile had a few lines from "Echoes" in it for quite a while after Rick died. I also love the word play and feel of "San Tropez". "Sooner than wait for A break in the weather, I'll gather my far-flung Thoughts together. Speeding away On the wind to a new day. And if you're alone I'll come home. " Cool thought my reference to the track might have partly inspired the change. [:)] I like San Tropez a lot. I must admit I like the Fearless football chant ending. Its the Liverpool chant "You'll never walk alone" which has a special resonance IMO. Really like Pillow of Clouds too. These tracks have a real elegance and even beauty at times that is sadly lacking latterly. quote: While "UmmaGumma" was my PF intro it was certainly "Meddle" that got me hooked. (I had a fistfight with my roommate when he opened and played my brand new "UmmaGumma" without my permission. It helped that I was basically incoherent at the time and walked in during Several Species!) Then I went back to UmmaGumma with the benefit of hearing where they were headed. Wow no one should eat your weetabix lol - I like Ummagumma although its pretty flawed on the studio side. Gilmore's piece is good although the lyrics seem to be so bad that they were turned down!!! Quiet bits of Sysyphus were cool too.

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