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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 3:06:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



March 30, 1994







FUCK!!! That's a lotta freckles!!!


lol...The iPhone camera does tend to bring them out a bit more than normal light!

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 3:26:41 PM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

Carnegie Hall in 72?

"Saucer full of Secrets"


That is a show I have only heard a recording of once. If I remember correctly, it was totally killer... Thanks for the link... I posted a torrent link to the Warren Haynes Band show last night. I just finished listening to it and it SMOKES. I myself didn't go and record the show, but a guy I broke in about 10 years ago captured it on a rig I would LOVE to have. The link and a sample of his playing is in a link in this subforum


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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 3:50:03 PM   
farglebargle


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Yeah, Zman does some good work.

I gave up after Jerry Died ( excepting a few early WSP shows )....

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 3:59:15 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Carnegie Hall in 72?

"Saucer full of Secrets"

http://just-add-cones.blogspot.com/2011/04/pf-1972-05-02-carnegie-hall.html


Unfortunately I cant get it to d/l free. Its probably on a torrent site though.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 4:39:42 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
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From: Insanity & beyond
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Carnegie Hall in 72?

"Saucer full of Secrets"

http://just-add-cones.blogspot.com/2011/04/pf-1972-05-02-carnegie-hall.html


Unfortunately I cant get it to d/l free. Its probably on a torrent site though.


It appears to be downloading for me, but it's taking for-freakin-ever. I really didn't have anything to contribute to this thread. I love Pink Floyd & have several CD's somewhere in Oregon, but during the late 60's & 70's I was just a teensy bit "overmedicated" as Jefff put it. For about 13 years there. So I didn't go to any concerts & while I got loaded & cranked the music up, I didn't very often know who exactly was playing or what else they might have done.

So I'm finally revisiting this music. It amazes me how much I missed. I've enjoyed reading the thread though.

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 5:28:33 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Carnegie Hall in 72?

"Saucer full of Secrets"

http://just-add-cones.blogspot.com/2011/04/pf-1972-05-02-carnegie-hall.html


Unfortunately I cant get it to d/l free. Its probably on a torrent site though.


It appears to be downloading for me, but it's taking for-freakin-ever. I really didn't have anything to contribute to this thread. I love Pink Floyd & have several CD's somewhere in Oregon, but during the late 60's & 70's I was just a teensy bit "overmedicated" as Jefff put it. For about 13 years there. So I didn't go to any concerts & while I got loaded & cranked the music up, I didn't very often know who exactly was playing or what else they might have done.

So I'm finally revisiting this music. It amazes me how much I missed. I've enjoyed reading the thread though.


LOL. yes...I had tickets for all 5 nights of the original Wall tour at Nassau Colliseum and only manage to get to 3 of them. Recovery was badly needed between the odd numbered shows.

(Not as badly overmedicated as I was at Woodstock though. I contributed to the need for a few public service announcements that made it into the movie, lol).

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 5:36:13 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Carnegie Hall in 72?

"Saucer full of Secrets"

http://just-add-cones.blogspot.com/2011/04/pf-1972-05-02-carnegie-hall.html


Unfortunately I cant get it to d/l free. Its probably on a torrent site though.


It appears to be downloading for me, but it's taking for-freakin-ever. I really didn't have anything to contribute to this thread. I love Pink Floyd & have several CD's somewhere in Oregon, but during the late 60's & 70's I was just a teensy bit "overmedicated" as Jefff put it. For about 13 years there. So I didn't go to any concerts & while I got loaded & cranked the music up, I didn't very often know who exactly was playing or what else they might have done.

So I'm finally revisiting this music. It amazes me how much I missed. I've enjoyed reading the thread though.


LOL. yes...I had tickets for all 5 nights of the original Wall tour at Nassau Colliseum and only manage to get to 3 of them. Recovery was badly needed between the odd numbered shows.

(Not as badly overmedicated as I was at Woodstock though. I contributed to the need for a few public service announcements that made it into the movie, lol).


o_O

I thought I remember from threads on the politics board that you were pretty much anti all drugs or at least legalizing them. Was I mistaken?


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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 6:06:58 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Another aside here.

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?

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Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 6:59:04 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

Carnegie Hall in 72?

"Saucer full of Secrets"

http://just-add-cones.blogspot.com/2011/04/pf-1972-05-02-carnegie-hall.html


Unfortunately I cant get it to d/l free. Its probably on a torrent site though.


It appears to be downloading for me, but it's taking for-freakin-ever. I really didn't have anything to contribute to this thread. I love Pink Floyd & have several CD's somewhere in Oregon, but during the late 60's & 70's I was just a teensy bit "overmedicated" as Jefff put it. For about 13 years there. So I didn't go to any concerts & while I got loaded & cranked the music up, I didn't very often know who exactly was playing or what else they might have done.

So I'm finally revisiting this music. It amazes me how much I missed. I've enjoyed reading the thread though.


LOL. yes...I had tickets for all 5 nights of the original Wall tour at Nassau Colliseum and only manage to get to 3 of them. Recovery was badly needed between the odd numbered shows.

(Not as badly overmedicated as I was at Woodstock though. I contributed to the need for a few public service announcements that made it into the movie, lol).


Ahhhh, that was you, eh? I've been clean & sober for 35 years now, but when I was doin it, I was seriously doin it!!

_____________________________

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
~~L. Cohen

Just one of the yahoo's

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/14/2011 7:13:48 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis


Ahhhh, that was you, eh? I've been clean & sober for 35 years now, but when I was doin it, I was seriously doin it!!


Assuming you grokked on the right announcement from Chip, yes, that was me in larger part. I can't take full credit (or blame) that goes to a mighty fine chemist from Chicago.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 6:57:51 AM   
Kana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Another aside here.

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?


Nope.


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HST

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 9:55:28 AM   
mastrcmmdr


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oops


< Message edited by mastrcmmdr -- 5/15/2011 9:56:45 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 9:58:30 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

I thought I remember from threads on the politics board that you were pretty much anti all drugs or at least legalizing them. Was I mistaken?



No, you arent mistaken. The casual dismissal/ignoring of evidence of the risks in even regular and prolonged marijuana use in that debate is irresponsible, imo. My "seen the needle and the damage done" experiences are impossible for me to ignore. Of course on that board positions have to be polarized to rise above the din, so I may sound more militant than I am. I favor decriminilization with very strict distribution controls of non-(physically) addictive drugs. I added the "physically" because there is no drug (worth taking anyway!) that can't create a psychological dependence, and thats why distribution needs to be so tight. Ca medical marijuana law is almost tight enough for pot, I just wish they would drop the pretense of the "medical" part. The "almost" is that you can go from dispensary to dispensary and buy unlimited quantities. There needs to be a database that controls that. When you move up to, say, psychedlics and their cousins, even tighter controls are needed.

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 10:09:04 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Another aside here.

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?


Nope.



There are some narrative similarities certainly, but thats true of any two stories that start with childhood trauma and its long term effects. The music itself and the themes are so different that "remake" goes way too far. The Wall is both more personal and more universal than Tommy. The "real world" parts also dont get as "comic book" as Tommy. Charismatic cults built around a rock star is far more believable than a pinball cult which rendered Tommy too silly. (Yes, The Trial is literally "comic book", but that is a depiction of a psychological breakdown, not real world). Those voices and images strike me as quite realistic in that context.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 11:48:19 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?


Not even close.


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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 12:35:47 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Another aside here.

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?

Nope.


There are some narrative similarities certainly, but thats true of any two stories that start with childhood trauma and its long term effects. The music itself and the themes are so different that "remake" goes way too far. The Wall is both more personal and more universal than Tommy. The "real world" parts also dont get as "comic book" as Tommy. Charismatic cults built around a rock star is far more believable than a pinball cult which rendered Tommy too silly. (Yes, The Trial is literally "comic book", but that is a depiction of a psychological breakdown, not real world). Those voices and images strike me as quite realistic in that context.

Maybe Roger drew some inspiration from Tommy but yeah they are pretty different. Mind you with Tommy he becomes famous and turns into as tyrant. With "The Wall" the same happens to Pink/Roger the dodger. I have heard some folks make fun of Tommy. A deaf, dumb and blind boy who can play pinball sounds absurd because it is but the entire album was about the transcendant so I took it as a metaphor for rising above affliction: "sickness will surely take a mind / where minds can't usually go" (Amazing Journey). The Pinball aspect was just added during the recording to please an important critic. The first half of Tommy is excellent, less so the second. For me "The Trial" is the Gilbert-and-Sullivan-ification of Waters gangantuan self pity. He had no right to unleash it on the World!!! Anyone with doubts about The Wall could compare it to similar-ish concept albums like Berlin.

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 1:47:38 PM   
TheRaptorJesus


Posts: 640
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Another aside here.

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?

Nope.


There are some narrative similarities certainly, but thats true of any two stories that start with childhood trauma and its long term effects. The music itself and the themes are so different that "remake" goes way too far. The Wall is both more personal and more universal than Tommy. The "real world" parts also dont get as "comic book" as Tommy. Charismatic cults built around a rock star is far more believable than a pinball cult which rendered Tommy too silly. (Yes, The Trial is literally "comic book", but that is a depiction of a psychological breakdown, not real world). Those voices and images strike me as quite realistic in that context.

Maybe Roger drew some inspiration from Tommy but yeah they are pretty different. Mind you with Tommy he becomes famous and turns into as tyrant. With "The Wall" the same happens to Pink/Roger the dodger. I have heard some folks make fun of Tommy. A deaf, dumb and blind boy who can play pinball sounds absurd because it is but the entire album was about the transcendant so I took it as a metaphor for rising above affliction: "sickness will surely take a mind / where minds can't usually go" (Amazing Journey). The Pinball aspect was just added during the recording to please an important critic. The first half of Tommy is excellent, less so the second. For me "The Trial" is the Gilbert-and-Sullivan-ification of Waters gangantuan self pity. He had no right to unleash it on the World!!! Anyone with doubts about The Wall could compare it to similar-ish concept albums like Berlin.


On the contrary, something many people overlook about The Trial is Pink's acceptance of guilt.

While the Mother and Teacher are both still trying to control him and obscene in their portions (remember, each voice is not that character but rather a manifestation of his subconscious) the Wife's issues with him are not about control but about things he did that lead to the breakdown of their marriage: "You should have talked to me more often, but no!.... Have you broken any homes up lately?" 

Then the judges line: "The way you made them suffer/your exquisite wife and mother" shows an understanding that the marriage not working, though ending with his wife's infidelity, was his own fault and (I may be reaching here) that while his mother was overbearing, she was just trying to be a good mother.

The Trial is a beautiful climax to the story and reaches an amazing crescendo. In the end, it isn't really self-pity so much as it is a condemnation of allowing issues that you've had control you to the extent of blocking yourself out from the world.


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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 2:00:19 PM   
mastrcmmdr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus


On the contrary, something many people overlook about The Trial is Pink's acceptance of guilt.



And therefore RW's acceptance that he himself bears responsibility for building his own walls. Although it took him 30 years to fully come to grips with it on this tour, the Montreal (if I remember the city correctly) spitting incident was the beginning of his own personal Trial.

< Message edited by mastrcmmdr -- 5/15/2011 2:01:10 PM >

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 5:43:08 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Another aside here.

Does anyone else think that "The Wall" was just a remake of "Tommy"?

Nope.

There are some narrative similarities certainly, but thats true of any two stories that start with childhood trauma and its long term effects. The music itself and the themes are so different that "remake" goes way too far. The Wall is both more personal and more universal than Tommy. The "real world" parts also dont get as "comic book" as Tommy. Charismatic cults built around a rock star is far more believable than a pinball cult which rendered Tommy too silly. (Yes, The Trial is literally "comic book", but that is a depiction of a psychological breakdown, not real world). Those voices and images strike me as quite realistic in that context.

Maybe Roger drew some inspiration from Tommy but yeah they are pretty different. Mind you with Tommy he becomes famous and turns into as tyrant. With "The Wall" the same happens to Pink/Roger the dodger. I have heard some folks make fun of Tommy. A deaf, dumb and blind boy who can play pinball sounds absurd because it is but the entire album was about the transcendant so I took it as a metaphor for rising above affliction: "sickness will surely take a mind / where minds can't usually go" (Amazing Journey). The Pinball aspect was just added during the recording to please an important critic. The first half of Tommy is excellent, less so the second. For me "The Trial" is the Gilbert-and-Sullivan-ification of Waters gangantuan self pity. He had no right to unleash it on the World!!! Anyone with doubts about The Wall could compare it to similar-ish concept albums like Berlin.

On the contrary, something many people overlook about The Trial is Pink's acceptance of guilt.

While the Mother and Teacher are both still trying to control him and obscene in their portions (remember, each voice is not that character but rather a manifestation of his subconscious) the Wife's issues with him are not about control but about things he did that lead to the breakdown of their marriage: "You should have talked to me more often, but no!.... Have you broken any homes up lately?" 

Then the judges line: "The way you made them suffer/your exquisite wife and mother" shows an understanding that the marriage not working, though ending with his wife's infidelity, was his own fault and (I may be reaching here) that while his mother was overbearing, she was just trying to be a good mother.

The Trial is a beautiful climax to the story and reaches an amazing crescendo. In the end, it isn't really self-pity so much as it is a condemnation of allowing issues that you've had control you to the extent of blocking yourself out from the world.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I don't see how Pink/Roger was accepting his guilt. What you didn't mention is the delivery of the lyrics. Working from memory here as I don't want to pollute my ears any more after hearing Lady Gaga earlier (Lady Kaka anyone?) but the lyrics are delivered in such a way as to clearly indicate Pink/Roger is being persecuted by the court unjustly. They are all caricatures but overwhelmingly ugly and very negative. The wife is fiendish, the mother stifling and reproachful, and the teacher wants to punish him. Worst of all is the Judge. He comes across as a malign tyrannical bully even if the sentence is comical (perhaps unwittingly lol). You left out the part of the line which makes it come across differently IMHO: "The way you made them suffer/your exquisite wife and mother/fills me with the urge to defecate". Also I'm not sure they are different facets of his subconscious as they run through the story as real people ("Mother, One of my turns etc."). Although I don't agree it is very interesting how differently others interpret the album.

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RE: Pink Floyd re-issue - 5/15/2011 7:02:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

Thanks for the detailed reply. I don't see how Pink/Roger was accepting his guilt. What you didn't mention is the delivery of the lyrics. Working from memory here as I don't want to pollute my ears any more after hearing Lady Gaga earlier (Lady Kaka anyone?) but the lyrics are delivered in such a way as to clearly indicate Pink/Roger is being persecuted by the court unjustly. They are all caricatures but overwhelmingly ugly and very negative. The wife is fiendish, the mother stifling and reproachful, and the teacher wants to punish him. Worst of all is the Judge. He comes across as a malign tyrannical bully even if the sentence is comical (perhaps unwittingly lol). You left out the part of the line which makes it come across differently IMHO: "The way you made them suffer/your exquisite wife and mother/fills me with the urge to defecate". Also I'm not sure they are different facets of his subconscious as they run through the story as real people ("Mother, One of my turns etc."). Although I don't agree it is very interesting how differently others interpret the album.


I pretty much agree with Raptor for a lot of reasons:


The Trial is all in his head. Its an internal conflict between continuing to hide behind the wall and tearing it down.

The judge, the only character who wasnt part of his real life, is a worm, but the worms represent the negative aspects of the real people and events in his life. They have eaten into his brain..ie his brain is part of the worms and vice versa.

The crime he is on trial for is showing feelings..Pink is terrified to allow himself to feel anything because of the risk of pain, and the Worm/Judge is there to decide whether he will continue to hide behind the Wall or be exposed.

But most importantly the imagined characters of real people DONT WANT "worm justice". They want to mete out their own punishment. Why? Because by punishing him with the same behaviors (exaggerated in his mind to cartoonish proportions) that caused him to retreat in the first place, he has justification to stay behind the Wall. The schoomaster wants to flog him, the wife wants Domme him. "She" accuses him of breaking up homes...but the wife is the one who cheated on him in real life. He is blaming himself for her withdrawal from him. The "mother" wants to hide him from the potential of pain of the real world. He sees them as his real life tormenters, but also his excuse for not facing reality

But ultimately the worm sentences him to the exposure that Pink really wants by tearing down all his protections, so that he can rebuild as a normal person.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 140
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