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RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:17:40 PM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

Anyone who wants to keep parroting the "health care is not a right" meme needs to consider very carefully my situation. A year ago I got a kidney infection, cause unknown, that rendered my kidney snearly dead. By late summer I was forced onto dialysis. By the end of September my company's group plan dropped us, just before the law changed disallowing that sort of thing. I was of course uninsurable, my present dialysis clinic bills at just over 30k per month. Without Medicare I would literally be dead now.

If health care is not a right would you care to donate your kidneys' to me and try paying for dialysis out of your own pocket?


Your unfortunate personal circumstances dont make it a right, as much as you would like it to.


What a great conservative christian you really are...

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:17:41 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Not arguing your point in your post... just saying not all Physicians follow the same Oath.


The link I provided stated the same thing.  And the examples you provided not for a minute suggested a Dr was a slave to his patients or profession.

While most do...in fact, while most people are slaves to their professions, in truth, I think its the true passion of theirs to have a career in that profession that enslave them to it.  And in doing what they love to do, I seriously doubt they consider it an enslavement, meant in the way Rand was using it. 

Rand is trying to use tactical words to scare the public.  If we were a more intelligent public (by NO means saying I am a citizen of that intelligent public lol...but still), if there were a more intelligent public, scare tactics and words to manipulate wouldn't matter. 




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RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:21:45 PM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you have less credibility than palin and trump put together rolled up in michelle backman.

A DYB Republican pitta?


Trumps a cuck, its written all over his face

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RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:22:50 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:24:17 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
you have less credibility than palin and trump put together rolled up in michelle backman.

A DYB Republican pitta?


Trumps a cuck, its written all over his face




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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:25:13 PM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I don't know much about Rand Paul, to me he is just another politician, and he may be exagerating a bit to get his point across but he is essentially correct. When you declare a product or service to be a right, you are essentially declaring that others MUST serve you. If I have a right to health care then other people MUST provide it. If I have a right to decent housing, then other people MUST provide it for me. That goes against the very idea of a free society.

Now, before you bobble heads out there get your panties in a twist, this doesn't mean I think it is a bad idea for everyone to have access to health care (how we go about doing that is an argument I'll save for another day) but let's not be intellectually dishonest by calling it a right. If someone is providing you health care for free or even for less than cost, then it is a benefit. When you start labeling benefits as rights... well... witness the indignant, whiney, responses on this thread. Indignant, whiney citizens who believe that they are entitled to service provided by others does not make for a viable society.




What a load of crap. What is a human right then? Are there any? With your examples there are none. Simply a free for all , survival of the fittest, and fuck everyone that can't get theirs. Nice world. No thanks.

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Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:26:36 PM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

gawd do something about his hair will ya doood? stuff it in one of the bitches mouths while you arent using them????


Presupposing that he can perform. Can someone please tell me how that man gets laid?

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:27:33 PM   
mnottertail


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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:34:53 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		I really dont have the brain bleach to think about that for longer than five seconds,
shudder


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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:34:55 PM   
rulemylife


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< Message edited by rulemylife -- 5/13/2011 2:47:49 PM >

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RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:38:44 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Money won't buy you love, but it will buy you shit that looks so close to it, you won't bother to examine the difference.

It's Money That I Love (by the cartoon pianist who's always on Family Guy...)



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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:39:18 PM   
Lucylastic


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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 2:52:34 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I wish I had the energy to go back and count, I wish I cared beyond enjoying seeing how enormous they have been over the years.cos I know I lost count before the last sock puppet showing



I really don't like to do that and I broke my own rule about it so I deleted the post.

It just starts to piss me off sometimes.

But I'll take it up with him.

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 3:11:47 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
ETA this:
quote:

Or is it a privilege, and if you cant afford it, you should die?


This is exactly what I am talking about. Because you've accepted the notion that health care is a right you have locked yourself into an either/or mode of thinking in which anyone who is not with you must be against you... and therefore is a horrible person who is okay with letting people die.

So what precisely should happen to me? There is no way I can pay for the treatment that keeps me alive, 30+k per month. No one will sell me insurance at any rate. So if health care isn't a right should I get to die the incredibly unpleasant death caused by my body poisoning itself?

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 3:14:37 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR

Anyone who wants to keep parroting the "health care is not a right" meme needs to consider very carefully my situation. A year ago I got a kidney infection, cause unknown, that rendered my kidney snearly dead. By late summer I was forced onto dialysis. By the end of September my company's group plan dropped us, just before the law changed disallowing that sort of thing. I was of course uninsurable, my present dialysis clinic bills at just over 30k per month. Without Medicare I would literally be dead now.

If health care is not a right would you care to donate your kidneys' to me and try paying for dialysis out of your own pocket?


Your unfortunate personal circumstances dont make it a right, as much as you would like it to.

You'll be donating your kidneys to me and giving dialysis a try out of pocket then?




Your logic is ass backwards as always. IF it were a right you might have a claim to a transplant or dialysis, since it isnt, you dont.


No, as usual my logic is impeccable. In this case I'm inviting you to walk the talk. You say health care is not a right. I say it is. You can experience the truth of it by putting yourself in my place. I'm sure you will have no trouble paying out of pocket for the treatments since you are such an Ayn Randian superman.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 3:19:14 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


No, as usual my logic is impeccable. In this case I'm inviting you to walk the talk. You say health care is not a right. I say it is. You can experience the truth of it by putting yourself in my place. I'm sure you will have no trouble paying out of pocket for the treatments since you are such an Ayn Randian superman.


If someone in my family wound up in that position I most certainly would help. Thats the only talk I need to walk, not some internet random. You might talk to an attorney to look into why your company policy was dropped. And Im quite sure you would be able to find alternative sources for the care you need that you can afford if the government werent meddling.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 5/13/2011 3:20:19 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 3:23:45 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		You are not even an LOL anymore. 

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 4:07:00 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

You're still not getting it. I reject your either/or choice of right or privilege. Again: health care is neither of these things. A person who can afford to pay a doctor to perform surgery is not privileged. A privilege is something granted to you by an authority. Nobody is telling the rich man he can have surgery and the poor man he can't because "he's rich and you're not." The inability of the poor man to pay for the surgery is a result of market forces (his lack of marketable skills, the high cost of "producing" doctors, etc).


What makes up the cost of heath care?

What makes the cost of a medication rise from $10 to $1500?

That authority can be called "Doctor".

And you are under the impression its only the "poor" wo cant afford medical care? Care to take a look at the bankruptcy rate in relations to health care?

quote:

The people who do all of that still need to be compensated for their labor (or else they are not going to be able to afford anything).


An, you are back to the idea of healthcare being free. Get it out of your head. No one has suggested any such thing. right =/= free.

quote:

Health care for everybody! Housing for everybody! Chocolate cheesecake for everybody! Saying it doesn't do a damn thing (except to give ourself a really great ego stroke off) We need to be honest with each other and accept reality. We can start by calling health care for what it is: a product and a service subject to market forces; and we should call giving health care to people who are unable to afford it what it really is: not a right, not a privilege... but a benefit.


Its sunject to market forces because some asshole in government decided it was a great way to make money.

So, tell ya what, while the rest of us work towards a solution to this mess, you enjoy your blood money.



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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 4:22:34 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


No, as usual my logic is impeccable. In this case I'm inviting you to walk the talk. You say health care is not a right. I say it is. You can experience the truth of it by putting yourself in my place. I'm sure you will have no trouble paying out of pocket for the treatments since you are such an Ayn Randian superman.


If someone in my family wound up in that position I most certainly would help. Thats the only talk I need to walk, not some internet random. You might talk to an attorney to look into why your company policy was dropped. And Im quite sure you would be able to find alternative sources for the care you need that you can afford if the government werent meddling.

So you aren't willing to actually stand up for your convictions. I already knew that of course, it is one of the defining characteristics of libertarians, but it is always fun to get one to admit it.

BTW as I told you previously we did look into the legality of dropping the policy but it was 100% legal.

As to alternatives, have you looked at the state of health care for the disabled and elderly in this nation before Medicare and Medicaid? In simplest terms there wasn't any.

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Sen. Rand Paul: Right To Health Care Like Believing... - 5/13/2011 4:26:16 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Sometimes a single post says more about someone than you ever want to know.
Twice in one thread is more than enough ugly for me



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Profile   Post #: 140
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