RE: Slaves Fetishes

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PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:03:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer True. I take pride in developing a catholic range of interests. :-) What a coincidence. Im interested in a range of Catholics. [8D] ETA tell me you didn't see that one coming a mile away. Nope, I didn't! But I do like to give out 'feeders' for jokes sometimes. It's fun playing the 'straight man' in a duo, yerknow? ;-)

LadyPact -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:04:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I want those serving me to be happy that they are, whether they are a life partner, a playmate, or a servant. Ideally, they want ME to be happy, and we both fulfill our parts in the relationship. I say this quite a bit: D/S RELATIONSHIPS ARE NOT QUID PRO QUO. You can natter on all you like about how both parties are essential, but an essential inequality of role is built into the relationship. Part of "getting to know you" or "negotiation" or "courtship" is finding out if your kinks and foibles are compatible. I know (for instance) that someone who is a full on crossdresser would not be a good match for me. I also know that there are myriad small things that I enjoy if the other person enjoys them. There are some things that I never think of doing ever, and would have to be asked or reminded. WHY in the name of PG Tips would I use some checklist method of kink fulfillment in order to generate "submission"? I feel exactly the same way. One thing I can not stand is the feeling of being put upon to fulfill a certain amount of kink or specific fetishes in allotted amounts so that the pay off will be someone's submission. In My world, it really is submit first and kink second.

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:06:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Statements like yours make me sad. The day I see any part of my sex life as having to 'address' anything will be a miserable, bad, no good day. Whoa - that's quite pessimistic, VC. It could be that if a sub becomes more submissive, she or he actually has more fun as a result. Who wouldn't want more fun? I must admit, I'm surprised not to see this idea aired a little more than it has been on this forum.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:07:20 PM)
Thanks, LP, sometimes posts make me ultracranky. Here's the thing: You are submissive, or you are NOT. If you are submissive, your submission is NOT JUST IN THE BEDROOM. If your submission is tied into the variety and content of your orgasms...that is not submission. It's kinky sex, it's playing, it's bottoming, but to this old leatherlady it is NOT submission. There is nothing wrong with just wanting to play and have a festival of kinky entertainments. I enjoy that myself now and again. To use a dessert analogy, there is Iles Flotants, and there is cheesecake. Both good, but not the same level of long lasting satisfaction.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:08:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Statements like yours make me sad. The day I see any part of my sex life as having to 'address' anything will be a miserable, bad, no good day. Whoa - that's quite pessimistic, VC. It could be that if a sub becomes more submissive, she or he actually has more fun as a result. Who wouldn't want more fun? I must admit, I'm surprised not to see this idea aired a little more than it has been on this forum. Of course, Darling, but submission does not come because I wore the pvc corset and the lace stockings. That's what makes better erections. I never confuse the two.

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Of course, Darling, but submission does not come because I wore the pvc corset and the lace stockings. That's what makes better erections. I never confuse the two. I don't get that. In my world, if submission didn't make me horny, I wouldn't be into it. On the other hand for me it's about a woman's attitude rather than what she wears or whatever kinks she's into.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:15:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Statements like yours make me sad. The day I see any part of my sex life as having to 'address' anything will be a miserable, bad, no good day. Whoa - that's quite pessimistic, VC. It could be that if a sub becomes more submissive, she or he actually has more fun as a result. Who wouldn't want more fun? I must admit, I'm surprised not to see this idea aired a little more than it has been on this forum. It's the 'address' part I'm objecting to. That's a negative word choice, along with 'deal with', 'cater to', etc. That's just not how I want my kink life, my sex life or my love life. As to being 'more submissive', I'll ask again: what does that actually mean in this context? As a concept it's easy to throw about, but wishy-washy and ill-defined. But trust me, Peon, my kink life is not lacking in fun. [8D]

LadyConstanze -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:18:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Statements like yours make me sad. The day I see any part of my sex life as having to 'address' anything will be a miserable, bad, no good day. Whoa - that's quite pessimistic, VC. It could be that if a sub becomes more submissive, she or he actually has more fun as a result. Who wouldn't want more fun? I must admit, I'm surprised not to see this idea aired a little more than it has been on this forum. Actually not, in an ongoing relationship, I would hope people press each others buttons, but if it is a new person and the person tells me "You have to dress a certain way, swing from the chandelier, do a somersault backwards, whistle the theme song from Doctor Zhivago, so I can feel more submissive", I wouldn't walk away, I would run. I think some people are submissive to their fetishes only, which is a bit different from being submissive, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as they say they are fetishists and don't pretend to be submissives, because that will lead to frustration on both sides.

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:24:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious As to being 'more submissive', I'll ask again: what does that actually mean in this context? As a concept it's easy to throw about, but wishy-washy and ill-defined. But trust me, Peon, my kink life is not lacking in fun. [8D] I have no doubt at all that your kink life is replete with the fun-stuff, VC ;-) As for the first: the only way I can explain is by illustration with what happened to me. At one time, I had only the one kink. I picked up more as life went on. Then I came here, and was exposed to a shedload of new ones. Then I began to look at the common feelings that these different kinks gave to me. It had begun to feel like there was a central 'hub' to them - they were all roads going to the same place. The most fun came from getting to know that hub. The times I've even glimpsed it, have been way, way more than fun. Taste that, and you don't forget it and won't ever leave it alone. Maybe we're even talking about 'transcending kink' here, though that'd be to put it far more heavily and pompously than I'd like. If that makes sense.

LaTigresse -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:25:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I think some people are submissive to their fetishes only, which is a bit different from being submissive, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as they say they are fetishists and don't pretend to be submissives, because that will lead to frustration on both sides. Which I believe is one of the biggest land mines in our sort of relationships. All too many times we get individuals that are focused on what turns them on and not about relationship dynamics. Either a person is submissive, regardless of sexual thrills, or they are not. As you say, there is nothing wrong with being one or the other but the key is knowing.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 1:30:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus You are submissive, or you are NOT. If you are submissive, your submission is NOT JUST IN THE BEDROOM. If your submission is tied into the variety and content of your orgasms...that is not submission. It's kinky sex, it's playing, it's bottoming, but it is NOT submission. Can I get this stitched on a pillow, crocheted on a blanket, etched on a coffee mug, printed on a t-shirt, and made into a bumper sticker? Could I get it stenciled on my wall, while we're about it?

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 2:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze I think some people are submissive to their fetishes only, which is a bit different from being submissive, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as they say they are fetishists and don't pretend to be submissives, because that will lead to frustration on both sides. Maybe they are indeed submissive to their fetishes only. You've had a lot more experience of malesubs than I have, Lady C - I wouldn't know. Perhaps I fetishise a certain attitude in a woman. I don't know how to classify myself next to other malesubs because I don't know enough about them. (And I'm way past wanting to classify myself anyway.) All I'm clear about is that to call it 'superficial' or merely 'playing' would be idiotic. Nonetheless, to re-emphasise, and notwithstanding La T's point: I certainly would not be into it unless it made me horny. I'm with those femdoms who are into D/s because it's fun, primarily, though we might all agree to a big capital 'F' on that word. To recall the comments of Lady Pact and yourself, respectively, on my 'What's Your Motivation' thread (when, to recall, we were all talking about 'hunger' versus 'fun'): Lady Pact: "This is something that's been coming up in a few places for some of us. It's some version of optional. It really just isn't a necessity. Great when we do it, but somewhat apathetic about the whole thing when we don't. This might be why I'm less than sympathetic when folks come here and whine about how they neeeeeeed to play. It's just not something that controls Me." LadyConstanze: This "It's cool, it's great, it's fun but I don't really "need" it, I feel better if I have it but I could also live without having it. Other things are just more important."

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 2:21:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze whistle the theme song from Doctor Zhivago And now I can't get that frigging tune out of my head.

mnottertail -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 2:25:35 PM)
Lara's Theme. this'll give the old kidney pudding a good cleanout from that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxLAzuGtPpI&feature=related

LadyConstanze -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 2:37:11 PM)
As I said, I have no problem with fetishists, they can be great fun but I want to know what I'm "getting", you know if they go on about that they are submissives but then tell me "You gotta do this, that and the other", then it's not fun anymore it feels like I'm being pressured, if they say they have this fetish, I can take it or leave it but I know what I'm getting or leaving. Compare it with food, it's great to have savory and it's great to have pudding, it's just if you're in the mood for a curry, a tiramisu won't do and the other way round, like if you invite me to your place and say you're making Chinese or Italian, and then you give me steam pudding, I'm not going to be happy.

Canaille -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 2:39:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus You are submissive, or you are NOT. If you are submissive, your submission is NOT JUST IN THE BEDROOM. If your submission is tied into the variety and content of your orgasms...that is not submission. It's kinky sex, it's playing, it's bottoming, but it is NOT submission. Can I get this stitched on a pillow, crocheted on a blanket, etched on a coffee mug, printed on a t-shirt, and made into a bumper sticker? Could I get it stenciled on my wall, while we're about it? Count me in for the set, and add me to the LadyHibiscus fan club, please and thank you. :)

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 3:55:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze As I said, I have no problem with fetishists, they can be great fun but I want to know what I'm "getting", you know if they go on about that they are submissives but then tell me "You gotta do this, that and the other", then it's not fun anymore it feels like I'm being pressured, if they say they have this fetish, I can take it or leave it but I know what I'm getting or leaving. Compare it with food, it's great to have savory and it's great to have pudding, it's just if you're in the mood for a curry, a tiramisu won't do and the other way round, like if you invite me to your place and say you're making Chinese or Italian, and then you give me steam pudding, I'm not going to be happy. I'm not good on food. Firstly, I don't know what a tiramisu is but, secondly, be assured I've never seen you as a steam pudding kind of gal, Lady C. ;-) Back to D/s: For a Domme to fit into what I want (and yep, I do get to make that demand - get used to it ;-)) she's got to have it in her to enjoy dominating, whatever she does. She has to have the bollocks to do what she wants, or demand it of me, and I have to see that she enjoys it, whatever 'it' is. The moment she loses that and, for instance, tries to cover it up by advancing the argument that it's all my fault because I'm not a 'true sub' is the moment I'll think, 'Yeah, right. You chickened'. On the other hand if she's honest and says, 'look, it's not in me right now, I don't feel it' - then, I'm fine. I'm a sub/vanilla switch: I'm perfectly happy doing either and/or both. I will rip the piss out of a woman but kneel at her feet the moment she develops the guts to show that she wants that from me. A long-term partner of mine is always going to be a lover first, my best friend second and a femdom third. Though, actually, I've mostly done without the third so far, and I could probably do without it again, if need be. All notwithstanding the fact that I always do see when women are being bitchy, small-minded, egotistical, competitive, schoolgirlish, nasty and downright silly. Which they are, often, and the regulars on this board aren't any exception. I'll still be able to see the Goddess in her, weirdly enough.

LadyPact -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 4:06:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Maybe they are indeed submissive to their fetishes only. You've had a lot more experience of malesubs than I have, Lady C - I wouldn't know. Perhaps I fetishise a certain attitude in a woman. I don't know how to classify myself next to other malesubs because I don't know enough about them. (And I'm way past wanting to classify myself anyway.) All I'm clear about is that to call it 'superficial' or merely 'playing' would be idiotic. Nonetheless, to re-emphasise, and notwithstanding La T's point: I certainly would not be into it unless it made me horny. I'm with those femdoms who are into D/s because it's fun, primarily, though we might all agree to a big capital 'F' on that word. To recall the comments of Lady Pact and yourself, respectively, on my 'What's Your Motivation' thread (when, to recall, we were all talking about 'hunger' versus 'fun'): Lady Pact: "This is something that's been coming up in a few places for some of us. It's some version of optional. It really just isn't a necessity. Great when we do it, but somewhat apathetic about the whole thing when we don't. This might be why I'm less than sympathetic when folks come here and whine about how they neeeeeeed to play. It's just not something that controls Me." LadyConstanze: This "It's cool, it's great, it's fun but I don't really "need" it, I feel better if I have it but I could also live without having it. Other things are just more important." In this, I'm going to revert back to the old stand-by. Play (or fetishes in this case) is something that you do. The D/s part is more about who you are. When the acts are more important than the person, that's one way to define where your interests lie. There's nothing wrong with joint kinky wish fulfillment. That is very much fun and I think most of us are willing to agree on that. However, when doing so is the greatest crutch that is supporting the dynamic, it stops being fun and seems more like a demand. The control in the dynamic takes a tilt in the wrong direction and the power is flowing the wrong way. For example, if I feel like playing with needles, it really is clip's position to submit and receive them. If he wants a needle scene, it's not My position to submit to giving him one.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 5:31:12 PM)
And at the same time, if he asks nicely, you'll oblige at some point, I'm sure![:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Slaves Fetishes (7/5/2011 5:37:58 PM)
OK, LP, thanks. God, I'm tired of talking about all this.

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