Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (Full Version)

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EternalHoH -> Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 4:57:22 AM)


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-05-13-nra-doctors-guns_n.htm


I think this is a perfect example of the hypocrisy in the Republican party. The main story they tell the voters is that they want to get government out of your lives, while this speaks wonders to the opposite.


"The National Rifle Association and other pro-gun interest groups argue that doctors violate patients' Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms by inquiring about gun ownership."

Absolute bullshit.  A pediatrician doing his job asking questions about gun safety (or swimming pool safety) in the home is NOT infringing upon anyone's second amendment rights.  But leave it to a nut state like Florida to think otherwise.





DarkSteven -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:05:00 AM)

The idea that a doctor has a right to know is iffy.  I can see both sides.

That said, to make it criminal for a doctor to ask is way out of line.  Legislating how a doctor performs his or her job could eve be seen as practicing medicine without a license.

From a practical point of view, since doctor-patient communication is privileged, how will the doctors' questions and patients' responses ever make it to any party that could confiscate the guns?  And how would a prosecution proceed?  No doctor in his right mind would ever record that conversation, so it would be two parties recollecting a verbal discussion with the court demanding release of privileged doctor-patient records on a routine basis.





Termyn8or -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:17:19 AM)

Just say no.

Really, that's their catchword, use it. Do you have a gun ? Say no. If you have 1,000 guns, just say no.

Like my eye surgery, they know I smoke pot, fukit. I didn't for a few days before because I know it affects the eyes. They asked when was the last time, I said about a week. That was the truth, it had something to do with it.

After the DUI I had to go see this place, yeah some sort of rehab. "do you have access to a firearm ?" what do you think I said. Geez, I am in the process of figuring out how to thread the barrell ! (you know what that means right ?) You think I should tell them that ?

Look, I'd like to be open and honest in this world, but you just can't. Sometimes I wonder if you ever could. I mean we see draconian laws, countless invasions of privacy and all that, and I do believe it is getting alot worse. But I don't know really, I don't even know if this planet existed before 1960.

They all lie, just join the club. Be upfront and straight with your chosen family, business associates and so forth, but when it comes to the government et alii, lie your fucking ass off. They went to court to make it legal. The media also went to court to make it legal for them to lie.

If they can lie to us, what follows ?

T^T



Termyn8or -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:21:27 AM)

"From a practical point of view, since doctor-patient communication is privileged"

That is an illusion. I know you are a pretty level headed guy and all, but there is no such thing as priveledged communication. Ask the folks over at KPMG about attorney/client stuff.

While you're at it tell your proctologist that you have a big bomb in the basement, see what happens.

Confidentiality is an illusion. And if you don't think so, don't bother asking the hospital for your medical records, ask your insurance company.

T^T



EternalHoH -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:22:33 AM)

I suspect this is the original confrontation that spawned the whole bruhaha.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100724/ARTICLES/7241001/1402/NEWS?Title=Family-and-pediatrician-tangle-over-gun-question


Apparently, the doctor dropped the family when the woman refused to answer.  So the Florida legislature decided to enslave their pediatricians, forcing them to serve patients.

Hillbillies and their education levels strike again. All the while, China kicks our educational ass.





DarkSteven -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:34:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

I suspect this is the original confrontation that spawned the whole bruhaha.

http://www.ocala.com/article/20100724/ARTICLES/7241001/1402/NEWS?Title=Family-and-pediatrician-tangle-over-gun-question

Apparently, the doctor dropped the family when the woman refused to answer.  So the Florida legislature decided to enslave their pediatricians, forcing them to serve patients.

Hillbillies and their education levels strike again. All the while, China kicks our educational ass.



The doctor dropped them as patients, and they contacted a LAWYER?  Can they quantify the damage done to them having to find another doctor?

Also, having a doctor-patient relationship is something that can be terminated at any time.  The Ullmans evidently think that the doctor has no right to boot them as patients.  That's ridiculous.  If a doctor feels like a patient is not cooperating, he has every right.



angelikaJ -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:41:59 AM)

DarkSteven,

His asking makes perfect sense to me for the reason he mentioned: safety.

My doctor asks about my alcohol consumption and tobacco usage.
How is this any different?

Her advice on alcohol consumption might vary dependent on my medical conditions and the medications I might be on.

The advice regarding firearms and children or swimming pool and kids is not going to change.

These are well known safety issues.

Edit: The doctor's point about why he dropped them is not unreasonable.

"Okonkwo said the issue was not about whether the parents owned a gun.
He said the doctor and patient have to develop a relationship of trust and that if parents won't answer such basic safety questions, they cannot trust each other about more important health issues."

I am sure her attitude of being combative did not help.



EternalHoH -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:44:21 AM)

She was probably carrying right there in the doc's office.



rulemylife -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:44:39 AM)

I am not in anyway an NRA supporter, but doctors need to stick to medicine and not have the arrogance to think that every aspect of their patients lives is subject to their scrutiny. 



Moonhead -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 5:53:25 AM)

So they're not entitled to drop patients who they think are going to be trouble if they avoid answering questions, then?



EternalHoH -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:10:28 AM)

Since when is a patent's health restricted only to performing medical exams and dispensing pills? Who hasn't been prodded by a doctor to lose weight to avoid diabetes? Or to stop smoking to avoid emphysema? Or lay off the fatty foods to avoid heart attacks?

Doctors suggest certain lifestyle changes all the time, but in the end, they have no control over the patient. And the same goes for the gun issue, they can suggest, but in the end, they have no control over anyone's second amendment rights, which is what makes this legislation the 'circus' it is.

Rand Paul - take note of who is doing the enslaving of medical professionals this time.



angelikaJ -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:11:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I am not in anyway an NRA supporter, but doctors need to stick to medicine and not have the arrogance to think that every aspect of their patients lives is subject to their scrutiny. 


My doctor asks me if I wear my seat belt.
I do not feel intruded upon.

This is not a doctor for adults, this is a pediatrician.
According to the NRA there is one accidental death of a child every 7 days.
(and that is supposed to be a "positive" statistic)

Guess who tries to repair the damage when there is an accidental shooting involving a kid:
Doctors.

No doctor wants their patient to either be the victim of an accident, or to be at the other end of one of these tragedies.

I don't find it intrusive at all, to want to remind parents that they should lock their guns.

I grew up in a home with firearms.
I grew up to treat every gun as loaded and that gun were not toys.

But not everyone is taught that way.

If that were true then things like this would NEVER happen:
Police say an unidentified 6-year-old boy took a semi-automatic pistol in his backpack to Ross Elementary on Tuesday. Later that morning as he and more than 40 other kindergartners were having lunch in a crowded cafeteria, the boy accidentally fired the gun as he was showing it off to friends.
The boy, as well as another 6-year-old boy and a 5-year-old girl were injured. All have since been released from a Houston hospital.
Houston police say the gun belonged to a friend of the boy's family and they are still determining whether anyone will face charges, including the gun's owner.
The kindergartner who brought the gun faces an automatic one year expulsion. If expelled, he would go to an alternative elementary school.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_houston_school_gun

It is a miracle that no one died.




EternalHoH -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:22:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I do not feel intruded upon.




You didn't feel intruded upon.

But all it takes is one dim bulb who does.

When do we, as a nation, address the dim bulb issue?





Moonhead -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:25:19 AM)

You can't. Dim bulbiness is a constitutionally protected right. "Life, stupidity and the pursuit of a penis," right?



angelikaJ -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:29:18 AM)

TELFERNER (May 6, 2011)--A 4-year-old Texas boy died after he was shot in the stomach by a 5-year-old sibling who was playing with a bolt-action rifle at their family’s home in Victoria County, authorities said.
Victoria County authorities were investigating Friday.

The boy was shot late Wednesday and his parents were home at the time, authorities said.
Chief Deputy Terry Simons told the Victoria Advocate that investigators are trying to determine why the children were left unsupervised.
The parents drove their wounded son to a nearby grocery store where the met paramedics, who then rushed the boy to a hospital.
Authorities did not say whether the 5-year-old is a boy or a girl.
Telferner is just outside Victoria.http://www.kwtx.com/statenews/headlines/4-Year-Old_Texas_Boy_Shot_Killed_By_5-Year-Old_Sibling_121385289.html 

FRANKLIN COUNTY, IN (FOX19) - The 4-year-old son of a Franklin County Sheriff's Deputy has died after he was accidentally shot in the stomach by a gun he and his twin brother found in the basement of their home.
Aiden Mehlbauer died Wednesday evening at about 6:30 p.m. at Children's Hospital after being shot in the stomach earlier in the afternoon.
http://www.fox19.com/story/14044178/4-year-old-shot-in-stomach-in?redirected=true 

FREEMONT, NC (WTVD) -- The Wilson County Sheriff's Office said Monday that a 7-year-old boy was shot and killed with a BB gun Friday evening.

Investigators say it happened at a home on Jaycross Road in Fremont - about four miles southwest of Stantonsburg - around 6:15 p.m.
According to deputies, two brothers were playing with a BB gun in their yard when a 4-year-old shot his brother - 7-year-old Alejandro Mejia - in the chest at close range.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7985035 

Doctors try to repair damage that might be repairable in an adult.
So, yes, how dare pediatricians say anything about locking up guns or gun safety... they are only thinking of the damage that might be done on a much smaller body.

(edit to give credit to Lucylastic for the links which I found in another thread)



Real0ne -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:38:06 AM)

fr

you have the right to privacy

if you choose to commingle your personal affairs in the public then the public has the right to judge it.

what a person "FEELS" has nothing to do with rights

the question was outside medical parameters required service the patient.




angelikaJ -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 6:43:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

fr

you have the right to privacy

if you choose to commingle your personal affairs in the public then the public has the right to judge it.

what a person "FEELS" has nothing to do with rights

the question was outside medical parameters required service the patient.




Not when The American Association of Pediatricians urges that these questions be asked...that makes it part of the standard of care.



EternalHoH -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 7:11:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the question was outside medical parameters required service the patient.




Well, you are not a medical or judicial professional, and this may very well be your opinion - BUT - even if it were so, how does one leap from that, to a conclusion of the medical professional involved is taking away anyone's gun rights?

In Florida, they somehow made that leap.







Termyn8or -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 7:23:27 AM)

In time they'll be able to just read everyone's mind. Will you all be happy then ?

T^T



angelikaJ -> RE: Pediatricians and NRA clash over asking patients about firearms (5/15/2011 7:31:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

the question was outside medical parameters required service the patient.




Well, you are not a medical or judicial professional, and this may very well be your opinion - BUT - even if it were so, how does one leap from that, to a conclusion of the medical professional involved is taking away anyone's gun rights?

In Florida, they somehow made that leap.







The pediatrician who seems to be at the center of this said that half of his patient's parents owned firearms.

I know that my nephew and neices' family physician has inquired about the use of bicycle helmets.
To me, this is no different.

And why RealOne can not grasp the concept of preventative health as a medical standard, and how this might apply to firearm safety, is a bit beyond my grasp.

Bullets do terrible and often irreparable things to tiny bodies.
It has nothing to do with the right to bear arms and everything to do with reasonable precautions to keep kids safe from preventable tragedies...like toddlers falling from windows in the summer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxPj3GAYYZ0 





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