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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/21/2011 7:15:44 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Interesting. How is being 'compelled' different to being 'forced'? I have to say, it's only on CollarMe that I've ever seen those two words used as anything other than synonymous.



I used to see "compelled" as something that occurred internally. 

"He beckoned and I was compelled to follow"  - - (an internal force - my own will had no choice)

versus:

"He grabbed me and forced me to come to him." (external force - he physically took me and placed me there).

I was called on my use of the word before, so I looked up the word and realized I had apparently been misusing it.  I can't speak for ChatteParfaitt, but perhaps she sees "compel" as an internal force, as well.



Oh yes, beautifully stated, NuevaVida, I do see it as an internal force.

My compulsion to submit is similar to the compulsion a piece of iron has to attach itself to a magnet. It's a natural physical attraction, on both sides. For me me, compelled means pulled, forced means pushed. You can't push me into submission, you'd have to kill me. But if I trust you enough, and feel that most natural attraction to your dominance, you can pull me.


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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/21/2011 8:20:12 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

If she's still there in the morning, she consented.
Before or after I remove the straightjacket?

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/21/2011 9:02:14 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

That's how I read it also. Perhaps it's more American to view compulsion as internal?

However, although I agree with Nueva about him being who he is, which caused me to submit to him, I would like to clarify that for me, there was a degree of consenting as well. I'm a very untrusting person, and despite how I felt, I still waited until I had sufficient info about how he reacts to believe that what I saw was going to be what I got. I overruled my natural inclinations until my mind said it was safe to submit to him.


Re: the bolded part, I did the same.  But for me, that was part of what I meant by "him being who he is."  I had to see it, experience it, and trust in it, before I gave over to it. 


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(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/21/2011 9:04:17 AM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Oh yes, beautifully stated, NuevaVida, I do see it as an internal force.

My compulsion to submit is similar to the compulsion a piece of iron has to attach itself to a magnet. It's a natural physical attraction, on both sides. For me me, compelled means pulled, forced means pushed. You can't push me into submission, you'd have to kill me. But if I trust you enough, and feel that most natural attraction to your dominance, you can pull me.



Thank you, ChatteParfaitt.

I can understand the pull vs. push, however I think someone can be forcibly pulled (ie; dragged), but then my mind can get all literal like that. 


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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/21/2011 10:55:04 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I used to see "compelled" as something that occurred internally. 

"He beckoned and I was compelled to follow"  - - (an internal force - my own will had no choice)

versus:

"He grabbed me and forced me to come to him." (external force - he physically took me and placed me there).

I was called on my use of the word before, so I looked up the word and realized I had apparently been misusing it.  I can't speak for ChatteParfaitt, but perhaps she sees "compel" as an internal force, as well.



OK - I think that works for me, too . . . . Thanks for the elucidation.

That helps me get to what I keep driving at with my 'paradox' and 'tension' ideas. When I first read the above, I had a picture of Bela Lugosi completely taking over the mind of some unfortunate young woman as he beckons and intones, 'Come to me. Come to me'.

But I'm guessing that that's not an appropriate image because the average victim of Dracula is some sort of hypnotic trance. Her consciousness has gone on holiday. That'd not make real-life sense to me.

In my case, it's simple: one side says yes, another side says 'this makes no sense'. And *that*s precisely what I like about it.

One day I might return to this thread and pick up some bits and pieces to use for the regular 'forced cocksucking/bi/feminisation' threads that we see on 'Ask A Mistress'. Those nearly always end up with the trumping line, 'It can't be forced if you want it' . . . and away goes the discussion - till the next time all the same frenzied fantasies pop up, and all the same 'cold logic' of 'It can be one of the other but not both' is thumped down on top of them. For my money, something of that paradox is hiding in the corner on the two threads devoted to 'Gorean rape' (if that's correct phrase) in the Gorean forum.





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(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/23/2011 7:57:35 AM   
MasterMLT66


Posts: 20
Joined: 12/17/2010
Status: offline 		It has been my experience that most subs desire a firm Dom and enjoy both being forced and giving freely, but I agree with the asshole ... once a sub accepts you as Dom, you do what you do and they accept what is given.

Some consideration is nice, but in essence the roles are clear and the choices have been made. It is also true that choices are made each and every time action takes place ... to leave or to stay, that choice is available at any time. If a Dom cannot control his sub and the sub expects to be controlled, then the sub can leave, and if a Dom is excessive in the eyes of the sub and the sub does not accept this behavior, then the sub can leave.



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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/24/2011 5:11:27 AM   
highhopes4us


Posts: 50
Joined: 5/3/2010
Status: offline 		i totally submit to my master in full...that is sosmething that should be done without hesitation.....

(in reply to firedogmilwaukee)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/24/2011 12:00:15 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:


To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely?


LOL, Don't you mean Dominance being forced upon them? (who else noticed this?)

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(in reply to firedogmilwaukee)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/24/2011 4:00:23 PM   
DomMeinCT


Posts: 2355
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		OP, what I'm curious about is the other three people you've got in your profile pics...

...did they consent to have their pics on a BDSM website or was it non-consensual?

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if there is any reaction, both are transformed.
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(in reply to firedogmilwaukee)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/25/2011 6:52:21 AM   
aromanholiday


Posts: 307
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:


To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely?


LOL, Don't you mean Dominance being forced upon them? (who else noticed this?)


It parsed Ok to me, but I have read many bad novels and florid phrasings therein. If I had dominance forced upon me, it would mean to me someone was thrusting me, against my will, into the role of a dominant. There is a a common hackneyed phrase used in those novels or bad journalism that gives this impression, "A leadership role was forced(thrust) upon him at an early age when his father died..."

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/25/2011 7:00:36 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: highhopes4us

i totally submit to my master in full...that is sosmething that should be done without hesitation.....


Not always as simple as it sounds though, eh?  As evidenced in your own thread about having trouble obeying because you like to be punished.  So an interesting question would be, if your master used force on you to obey, would you submit in full without hesitation?  Or would you still act out for punishment?

Not trying to pick on you here, it's just that your situation is an interesting example.  Maybe you prefer some level of force in order to submit totally...?


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to highhopes4us)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/25/2011 7:09:00 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firedogmilwaukee

Answer as honestly as you can.

Seeing as its a personal question, I expect people on both sides to answer.




Well, I see actually being forced to submit as rape, no if ands or buts about it.
If a woman is into rape "games" where she knows everything that will happen and wants that, then that is submitting freely. If during the "game", something she did not agree to happens then again, that is back to real rape. Guys should know all this by now, imo.

What was the point of asking your question?

(in reply to firedogmilwaukee)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/25/2011 7:18:42 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Interesting. How is being 'compelled' different to being 'forced'? I have to say, it's only on CollarMe that I've ever seen those two words used as anything other than synonymous.



I used to see "compelled" as something that occurred internally. 

"He beckoned and I was compelled to follow"  - - (an internal force - my own will had no choice)

versus:

"He grabbed me and forced me to come to him." (external force - he physically took me and placed me there).

I was called on my use of the word before, so I looked up the word and realized I had apparently been misusing it.  I can't speak for ChatteParfaitt, but perhaps she sees "compel" as an internal force, as well.



Oh yes, beautifully stated, NuevaVida, I do see it as an internal force.

My compulsion to submit is similar to the compulsion a piece of iron has to attach itself to a magnet. It's a natural physical attraction, on both sides. For me me, compelled means pulled, forced means pushed. You can't push me into submission, you'd have to kill me. But if I trust you enough, and feel that most natural attraction to your dominance, you can pull me.

I generally use the word "compulsion" for internal force, "coercion" to describe the application of external force to avoid confusion, although technically, compulsion can be used to describe either internal or external force.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 5/25/2011 8:52:44 AM   
graceadieu


Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firedogmilwaukee

I'll restate what I already posted.

taken from: MasterSlaveLA

a)  Consent (at each use)

or

b)  Consensual Non-Consent

This user summed up perfectly the point i was getting at.

but don't let prior posts get in the way, continue I'm digging this.... Seriously!



Neither? Somewhere in between? I certainly don't explictly give my consent every time I'm told what to do, but I wouldn't go so far as describing that as consensual non-consent. I do what I'm told on a continuing basis without being asked my consent, because that's the nature of our relationship and just how I am, but that's freely given without force or coercion.

(in reply to firedogmilwaukee)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/12/2011 5:46:19 PM   
Back2theFuture


Posts: 183
Joined: 4/19/2011
Status: offline 		Good question but its a complex answer.(at least for me)

For me its like a dislocated joint. Its something you need done, but its easier if someone else does it for you. Yes I enjoy submitting to a woman, but its more potent if the woman displays he power over me by truly taking away control and forcing me to do something.
Sissification and crossdressing for example, for me its not something I just do. Yeah I may look good and enjoy it, but you will never find me doing it on my own.You can look around my apartment and you will not find one single thing that indicated that I am into this lifestyle.
But when forced or coursed into doing it by a woman, yeah I do lose myself in it and become far more compliant.


(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/13/2011 9:43:53 AM   
dvart


Posts: 110
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		On a formal level the Sub decides to submit and anything else is illegal, but then on a formal level a slave can say "no" at any point and the law would be on her side.
I think some Subs convince themselves that the power of a Dom's personality "force" them to submit.
But then in the Vanilla World women (and men) will say that they had no choice but to fall in love.
Personally I prefer a slave girl who consciously chooses to submit to me. That for me has an extra erotic charge.

(in reply to Back2theFuture)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/13/2011 1:05:17 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		FR

i had to give my submission...
it took forever for me to actually arrive at the point of submitting to Him like that,
it felt shameful and embarrassing and humbling

since i have done that He has no problem forcing me
which i adore

(in reply to dvart)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/14/2011 5:57:54 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		I don't happen to think it's a total binary thing, every PE relationship is a mixture of both, I would hazard to guess - some subs are in it for the sex, the serviced has to be forced or coerced, others probably vice-versa: i.e., you freely offer the one, the other you need some pushing, in other words, there are always things we don't want to do, but do in order to get what we do want - that's called "life".

In fiction, the term used to distinguish non-consent from reluctance is... reluctance.

In D/S, the relevant category would be forced sex, but there are variations on that, forced abstinence for example.

< Message edited by xssve -- 6/14/2011 5:58:32 AM >

(in reply to dvart)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/16/2011 11:50:11 PM   
MyLady2k


Posts: 3
Joined: 4/17/2011
Status: offline 		This is where a "safe" word comes in handy. I have had the pleasure of assisting true pain sluts to achieve that special balance of endorphins and adrenaline. There are levels of excitement that can be achieved without harming the submissive. Some Sadist's don't care about the slave. And Objectification is a kink and a lifestyle choice. The key word is choice. I chose in my life to play safe and sane. My own thresholds have been broken by some xped servents. Rough, painful, intimate, experimental moments have a bonding effect. I hope my submissive child will read this. Trust is earned, it should never be just given. Some people enjoy blind dates that involve sex with strangers. Cuckolds have come to me and asked if I wanted them to find a bull so they can watch. Not my style, but someone else's surely. Even then to have someone you trust with you to moniter the activities is a good idea. Guys and dolls, and guys who are dolls we all need to act responsibly. Bodily fluids are biohazardous. Just my thoughts about this question.
~MyLady2k~

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/17/2011 12:01:04 AM   
MyLady2k


Posts: 3
Joined: 4/17/2011
Status: offline 		@MasterMLT66 I say "ditto". Well put. No doesn't mean no sometimes. But leaving is clear, and a good choice in that case.
That song? Slip out the back jack, no need to be coy Roy just get yourself free...hop on the bus Guss no need to disuuusss ,
Just drop off the key Lee AND Get YOURSELF FREE!

(in reply to MyLady2k)
Profile   Post #: 80
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