RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your submission freely?

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/17/2011 8:33:01 AM

needlesandpins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
I used to see "compelled" as something that occurred internally.

"He beckoned and I was compelled to follow" - - (an internal force - my own will had no choice)

versus:

"He grabbed me and forced me to come to him." (external force - he physically took me and placed me there).

I was called on my use of the word before, so I looked up the word and realized I had apparently been misusing it. I can't speak for ChatteParfaitt, but perhaps she sees "compel" as an internal force, as well.

OK - I think that works for me, too . . . . Thanks for the elucidation.

That helps me get to what I keep driving at with my 'paradox' and 'tension' ideas. When I first read the above, I had a picture of Bela Lugosi completely taking over the mind of some unfortunate young woman as he beckons and intones, 'Come to me. Come to me'.

But I'm guessing that that's not an appropriate image because the average victim of Dracula is some sort of hypnotic trance. Her consciousness has gone on holiday. That'd not make real-life sense to me.

In my case, it's simple: one side says yes, another side says 'this makes no sense'. And *that*s precisely what I like about it.

One day I might return to this thread and pick up some bits and pieces to use for the regular 'forced cocksucking/bi/feminisation' threads that we see on 'Ask A Mistress'. Those nearly always end up with the trumping line, 'It can't be forced if you want it' . . . and away goes the discussion - till the next time all the same frenzied fantasies pop up, and all the same 'cold logic' of 'It can be one of the other but not both' is thumped down on top of them. For my money, something of that paradox is hiding in the corner on the two threads devoted to 'Gorean rape' (if that's correct phrase) in the Gorean forum.

Bela Lugosi's dead!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriBc6NjUhg&feature=related

needles

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/17/2011 11:46:14 PM

Footstoolnyc

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I don't get it. Psychologists and the like believe submissives have all the control. I don't agree because if a submissive has all the control then he/she isn't truely submissive. I am truely submissive. I believe that when I am with a dominant male that it is not only my duty to submit freely to him but that he also has every right to force his dominance over me, whether that means beatings, rape, what have you. In fact, the more a man has control over me, the more respect I have for him and the more I look up to and admire him.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/18/2011 4:14:48 AM

mic2serveher

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If you mean true non consent than hell no, but consensual non consent well ya once I submit form there on it is whatever the Mistress wants period no exception, even if I may not like something I would do it

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/18/2011 4:28:07 AM

fadedshadow

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neither for me. life itself has made me distance myself from the lifestyle

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/18/2011 5:51:48 AM

lally2

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late to this thread:

on my sojourns through various boards i have noticed that there are 'subs' who are possibly new and find the whole idea of being forced to submit enormously hot. theyre not completely comfy with the idea and need someone to drag it out of them

one thread i read stated that she needed to be made to submit and she was 'here' out of necessity to teach her how to behave and be nice. so ok. denial and need go together for some people, but in her profile she was clearly a masso with a strong desire to have the snot kicked out of her.

no one is going to force me into submission unless im part way there already.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/18/2011 7:44:39 PM

ThundersCry

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I have had it *taken* from me....

I knew her...

No big deal...

Kinda like edge play <eg>

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/18/2011 8:32:09 PM

sexyred1

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I love force play, rape play and consensual non-consent. I fail to see why this is so upsetting to people.

I love when people judge other's kinks.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/19/2011 2:46:40 AM

bornbothsexes

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To bet taken tied an led off to spend the rest of my life serving would be amdream cume true .I do not think it would be kidnapping ,I would be willing to walk out the door with the just the close on my back for this .

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/24/2011 7:19:21 PM

BiSalemOR

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I am a straight male but I am bi curious. I am curious about being a bottom and to find a submissive side.

I am a person that dislikes anyone trying to control me so I would have to answer with me giving my submission freely.

The woman or man would have to know how seduce me and coax my secret fantasies out of me and get me to want it.
The right persuasion in the right way can get people to do things they wouldn't normally do or even say they would never do.
But try to force me will be met with serious resistance. I know that some people like the force but I wouldn't unless it was planned role play and even then it would have to be pretty mellow.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/25/2011 12:16:38 PM

UberBrat

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I haven't read the whole 5 pages, but ...

I would never, ever submit to someone who tried to force it from me. Ever. Although when the relationship starts, I am happy to give up all control, I retain the right to control who I submit to. I will not just submit to anyone, and when I do submit it will be freely, and of my choice, and because I wish to submit to THEM.

However, if you're talking about being forced to submit as part of play, I can see why that would be quite fun. Like, non-consensual consensual? My Dom and I have never done this, but I do think it would be fun, and exciting. However, having submission forced from me would only ever be something I would allow when it is not really being forced from me, if that makes sense!

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/26/2011 4:50:44 PM

errantgeek

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For me, a little from column A, a little from column B. I have to feel a sense of trust, connection, chemistry and attraction before I want to submit. If I have that sense...then hell yes, consensual nonconsent all the way. If I'm not feeling it...well, Angelina Jolie could appear before me in a crotchless PVC body suit and tell me to get on my knees and eat her pussy, and I'd just tell her to go fuck herself.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/27/2011 12:05:11 AM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footstoolnyc

I don't get it. Psychologists and the like believe submissives have all the control. I don't agree because if a submissive has all the control then he/she isn't truely submissive.

One could also argue the fault lies with the DOMINANT, for having not taken control. As is often the case, it takes two to make any relationship/dynamic work -- BDSM or otherwise. (shrugs)

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 6/27/2011 12:10:23 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

I don't get it. Psychologists and the like believe submissives have all the control. I don't agree because if a submissive has all the control then he/she isn't truely submissive. I am truely submissive. I believe that when I am with a dominant male that it is not only my duty to submit freely to him but that he also has every right to force his dominance over me, whether that means beatings, rape, what have you. In fact, the more a man has control over me, the more respect I have for him and the more I look up to and admire him.

You have no control over what happens to your body? You state in your profile you have to be careful of who you hook up with. According to your definition, you would submit regardless of the Dominant, if he were a dominant male, and your desire to be careful wouldnt play into it at all.

Thats what they mean when they say the submissive has the power. Even you, a self-professed "truly" submissive male, have conditions/boundaries that puts you in charge.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 6/27/2011 12:11:00 AM >

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 7/2/2011 7:21:47 PM

SlaveKelly4life

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I see submission as a gift given freely to a Dom or Master. If the submission is forced, then I don't see where either party could be truly happy.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 7/7/2011 3:03:29 PM

VanyaOrthae

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thatsub

To me this looked like a rather simple and straight forward question. I guess, I have been away from this forum too long and forgot how regulars here like to twist everything inside-out and make OP a monster.

I view the forced part of the question as not a non-consensual kidnapping or rape. It is more of a mental pretend game some subs like to play in their head. Some of us like to imagine that we are still free and our submission is "earned" by a strong Dom/me by asserting their dominance. Just view such a simple concept of "D" as a punishment - it is assertion of dominance and while one might say "I let you punish me because I want to", others will say "I let you punish me because I accept your dominant position and my submissive position". In my opinion, there is a difference in those views, even though under close examination they both appear to be consensual and done by sub's choice.

Have you ever considered, that when subs agree to something and submit feely, they don't always feel "right" about it, because these actions give them power and control over the situation? Some of us would like to have illusion that we do not have that control, we like the "forced" submission. Please bear in mind that this "forced" submission is still consensual and is not forceful in a rape sense.

I knew what the OP meant, but there are many things that could have been assumed from the wording choice, so I suppose it's my own biases that led me to understanding his question.

In my experience - the actual act of initial submission to be his slave was not "consensual non-consent". This, for me or him, would have done nothing for either of us. But certainly, acts within the dynamics of the relationship, like fantasy play, for example, is where I can enjoy "consensual non-consent", which I feel is very different from my initial act of submission which was totally, and completely given to him from me, because he allowed me to experience the kind of person he is, and that was amazing.

All that aside, I'd also agree heartily with the statement in bold. I would however, consider myself more of the, "I submitted, now it's in his hands" camp, because anything else to me seems like it would be "topping from the bottom". I really don't think there's anything wrong with either preference, as I enjoy both myself, but it can be difficult when you and your dominant/submissive don't share those preferences due to the nature of the "consensual non-consent" situation.

< Message edited by VanyaOrthae -- 7/7/2011 3:23:11 PM >

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 8/7/2011 5:09:25 AM

Manawyddan

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If every act of submission has to be accompanied by a struggle of wills and threat of a spanking, I will lose interest immediately.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 8/16/2011 9:39:55 PM

lupineEleven

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FR ;)

My submission... is... well, NuevaVida and the others stated it pretty clearly. Compelled internally. I don't give myself freely, and while it may not be "forced" in the sense that he's grabbing me and going "YOU WILL OBEY RAWR" (okay, well, he has done that before, bahaha, but not in the beginnings/during serious moments), but because the type of person that Master was and is compels me to be subservient to him. At the same time, sometimes, I fight against that internal compulsion, and do prefer force in some scenarios, because I REALLY REALLY LIKE being put in my place. And not just in specific scenes; I sometimes need it in day-to-day life as well.

So... once the relationship has developed, I'm definitely a consensual non-consenting girl. But until I consent to the non-consent, there's little if no actual submission (but that does NOT go to say that I have to consciously consent - I've been very subservient to some Doms without even realizing I was doing so, simply because of the type of person that they were and how it resonated with me).

Generally though, it's not being submissive that makes me feel 'correct' or 'right' with myself, and giving myself freely is not my bank. Without that sense of force, and lack of my own free choice in the situation, there is little to feel submissive towards. They need to *take* it for me to want to give it. If that makes any sense, lol.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 8/17/2011 7:25:05 AM

stoni23

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I won't submit to anybody that I haven't established a level of trust with first. Casual play sure, but submission no. If I trust my partner, and have truly submitted to them (and I picked the right person to begin with), I won't need to be "forced" to do anything.

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RE: To have submission forced upon you or to give your ... - 8/17/2011 7:00:29 PM

seekingreality

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footstoolnyc

I don't get it. Psychologists and the like believe submissives have all the control. I don't agree because if a submissive has all the control then he/she isn't truely submissive. I am truely submissive. I believe that when I am with a dominant male that it is not only my duty to submit freely to him but that he also has every right to force his dominance over me, whether that means beatings, rape, what have you. In fact, the more a man has control over me, the more respect I have for him and the more I look up to and admire him.

Ultimately, the submissive has control over how much control he or she chooses to relinquish. That can be a negotiation, and the dom/domme can walk away if he/she doesn't like what suggest, but no one can force you to give up anything you don't want. And you can change the rules and walk away at any time. Now, in your personal belief system, you choose to allow a dom to beat you, "rape" you, and do whatever else he wishes (within the boundaries of the law, I assume) -- but that's your choice. So, yes, you are in control whether you realize it or not of establishing the boundaries.

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