RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep it in their Pants?

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RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/23/2011 11:29:57 PM

SternSkipper

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quote:

Far too often I see fathers deliberately implanting aggression and violence in their sons, or rewarding them for acting aggressively or violently. Than they turn around and claim it's natural and inherent in male biology (whatever that means to you)

Standing up for yourself verbally, or reacting in an emergency is nothing that you need to implant if you raise em right. And I'll bet you any amount of money my little girl would tract the same way... only in her own way.
I'm intensely proud of both of them

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 221

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/23/2011 11:45:44 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im still waiting for my cock pic

I just can't quite fit it all into the camera lens.

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Post #: 222

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 12:14:10 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im still waiting for my cock pic

I just can't quite fit it all into the camera lens.

Stop using the macro lens.

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RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 12:23:22 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Im still waiting for my cock pic

I just can't quite fit it all into the camera lens.

Stop using the macro lens.

We don't have those in those in the United States of America you Liechtensteiner.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 224

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 12:28:55 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SternSkipper

quote:

Far too often I see fathers deliberately implanting aggression and violence in their sons, or rewarding them for acting aggressively or violently. Than they turn around and claim it's natural and inherent in male biology (whatever that means to you)

Standing up for yourself verbally, or reacting in an emergency is nothing that you need to implant if you raise em right. And I'll bet you any amount of money my little girl would tract the same way... only in her own way.
I'm intensely proud of both of them

Indeedies. Well done to you and your partner (if I may assume there is one). Sounds to me like you have every reason to be proud.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/24/2011 12:31:21 AM >

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Post #: 225

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 5:41:17 AM

xssve

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I have on piece of advice I dispense freely to youngsters when they reach a certain age, after priming them properly that it's tantamount to the secret of life: when you're at a party, never set your drink down.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 226

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 8:15:55 AM

kdsub

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quote:

Far too often I see fathers deliberately implanting aggression and violence in their sons, or rewarding them for acting aggressively or violently

Time for me to be a caveman…sorta…lol. It does amaze me that most woman rant against male aggressiveness…yet it is that trait in men that attracts most women at some level.

Nature has build that trait into us and it is necessary for our survival. I man child does need to be taught how to defend himself physically or, like it or not, he will be bullied by other males.

We can no more deny our aggressive emotions than a woman can deny her nurturing emotions. The challenge is to learn to control the aggression and turn it into something useful.

Butch

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Post #: 227

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 8:25:54 AM

juliaoceania

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I do not think all aggression is wrong, and since men have hormones that create fertile ground for it, it must serve some sort of purpose. I will say that it should be channeled by the family structure.

My son had me and his grandparents (my mom's significant other was a grandfather to my son). I would like to think we didn't denigrate maleness. I purchased toys that were androgynous (babies, play food, etc). I also bought things for him that were boyish. He favored boyish stuff at a certain age.

I thought it was important for him to know it was okay to stand up for himself, but that his anger had to be channeled and appropriate to what was going on. We all get angry at stuff. It is what we do about it that counts.

My son is very kind, tenderhearted, but at the same time he sees through a lot of bullshit. He is not someone to pick a fight, but because of his size he has been the target of men out to make their bones. He is a BIG guy. He is only 20, yet he is built like a football player, and I am talking professional football player. People ask him constantly if he plays. For some reason, there are those who think that if they beat him up, this 6 foot 4 huge guy, it will make them appear bigger in some way. Because of this my son had to be aggressive defensively. It is an unfortunate thing.

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Post #: 228

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 10:14:33 AM

submittous

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We're a group that by and large is looking for rough and aggressive sexual conduct but in all the many bdsm communities we've been involved in over the years non consensual acts and especially rape just isn't OK. If those of us in bdsm communities can keep that straight why can't powerful vanilla men in business, politics, sports etc do the same? My personal belief is they are sociopaths and should be kept away from society.

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Post #: 229

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 10:27:48 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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What does that have to do with this thread... which isn't about BDSM.

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Post #: 230

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/24/2011 12:00:32 PM

xssve

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I think submittous makes a good point, i.e., even if you take biological urges as a given, and there are plenty in here who do, on both sides of the kneel, we manage to work out those kinks without resorting to prostituting children.

The tricky part of bringing biology into it, always being , it can sound a lot like a rationalization, and tweakabelle is correct in citing that humans at least, have brains capable of overriding it to a certain extent, and/or channeling it into more ethical forms - that's pretty much the history of human social evolution in myriad forms, including consensual D/s, B/D, and S/M - as a statistical thing however, there will always be some percentage of the population that can't or won't abide by any acceptable standards of social controls.

At best, in an imperfect world, you can make a note of the conditions that lead to statistical increases or decreases in the behavior, which at least gives you an idea what kind of conditions to avoid in order to keep it to the minimum.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 231

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 5:16:15 AM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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Yes we can all get angry and do. We can be aggressive and sometimes are. We're all capable of physical violence but not all of us are physically violent. Some of us are. Not all of those who violent are males. Not all of those who are non-violent are females.

The differences aren't natural .... if they were I would be saying "all males are ...." or "all females are .....". The differences are acquired. Generally speaking, we tend to encourage aggressive behaviour in boys and tend to discourage it in girls.

We can choose what qualities we implant in children. We can choose what qualities we encourage and reward. We can choose what qualities we discourage and penalise. We can accept that these matters are choices and not dictated by biology (and despite thousands of research attempts to 'prove' these matters are biologically mandated, not a single attempt has been successful. Ever).

It might be impossible to eradicate violence or rape completely from human behaviour. It's unlikely people will ever stop murdering each other for instance. But that doesn't mean we have to accept it or to stop trying to eliminate it.

It's our choice to maximise violence or to minimise it. It's our choice whether we implant violent aggression in children and/or reward them for behaving with violent aggression. Because it's a choice, we can just as easily choose not to. It's up to us.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/25/2011 5:18:25 AM >

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RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 5:50:46 AM

xssve

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Like I said, it's always going to be there - rape is a reproduction strategy, with a certain degree of success - as is sexual slavery, etc., it's just that under ordinary conditions, given a healthy breeding pair, consensual (or semi-consensual, in the case of arranged marriages) tend to be a lot more successful.

Psychopathy is a form of stationary phase mutation, I believe that under the appropriate stressors, the DNA unfolds and swaps alleles in and out of "junk DNA", maximising aggressive traits that will optimize the organisms survival in a highly competitive environment - but whatever the mechanism, malnutrition and/or absence of maternal affection are well documented triggers - the changes are physiological and permanent, possibly even heritable.

These are factor over which we have some control, we also have some control over social controls themselves, i.e., the "asking for it" defense for example, and whether we let that fly or not - if we did, then presumably the statistical incidence of opportunistic rape, date rape for example, would likely rise, depending on other prevailing social conditions.

Humans simply do not exhibit the same breeding behaviors as other species, we have an enormously wide range of different behaviors, probably due to the females losing estrus way back when proto-human hominids became bipedal - all other mammals only breed when the female is in estrus, we can and do have sex 24/7.

Presumably, at around the time women lost estrus, there was nothing to cue reproductive activity other than sheer compulsion, the blind need to engage in sexual intercourse - women lubricate even during rape, which might be a defense mechanism to avoid injury, but it adds to the confusion, i.e., the age old question: if she enjoys it, is it rape?

Biology triggers a sexual response, even if she is unwilling, responses like tat do not evolve overnight.

Again, consensual practices have evolved that maximize reproductive potential much more successfully, practices that include males sharing reproductive costs, MPI, etc. (the act of getting pregnant is the easy part), but the artifacts remain.

< Message edited by xssve -- 5/25/2011 5:53:53 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 233

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 7:08:55 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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never mind

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 5/25/2011 7:10:42 AM >

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 234

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 7:51:36 AM

tweakabelle

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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

xssve
rape is a reproduction strategy, with a certain degree of success

Yeah... sure ...and genocide is a successful population control strategy too.

Starving people to death is successful dieting strategy too. I've never heard of a fat person dying of hunger though - who knows? - it may have happened.

And giving some people access to just a little knowledge can be a very dangerous strategy sometimes.

I searched through the entire post for single sentence without a jaw-droppingly stupid, totally unproven, scientifically indefensible, wildly speculative claim and couldn't find any. Not a single one.

Then I searched again, this time just looking for phrases that weren't jaw-droppingly stupid, totally unproven, scientifically indefensible and wildly speculative. I found two: (i) "we also have some control over social controls themselves" and (ii)"Humans simply do not exhibit the same breeding behaviors as other species, we have an enormously wide range of different behaviors".

I was pleasantly surprised to discover there was actually two such phrases buried deep in the gibberish. I wasn't expecting that many.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/25/2011 7:58:02 AM >

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Post #: 235

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 8:16:14 AM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

xssve
rape is a reproduction strategy, with a certain degree of success

Yeah... sure ...and genocide is a successful population control strategy too.

Starving people to death is successful dieting strategy too. I've never heard of a fat person dying of hunger though - who knows? - it may have happened.

All true unfortunately, and yet somehow life on earth has managed to reach the density and diversity it currently exhibits, evolution is all a numbers game, this is biology 101.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
And giving some people access to just a little knowledge can be a very dangerous strategy sometimes.

You are a case in point - abstract categorization w/regard to symbolic processing is also an apparently unique human ability, a critical reason for our success as a species, but it's Two edge sword - not only can we use it to generate predictive models of empirical reality, but we can convince ourselves that objective reality can somehow be twisted to fit our abstract models.

So far, all I've seen from you is magical thinking: people have been doing that for thousands, maybe millions of years, with nothing really to show for it except for pyramids and televangelists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I searched through the entire post for single sentence without a jaw-droppingly stupid, totally unproven, scientifically indefensible, wildly speculative claim and couldn't find any. Not a single one.

Then I searched again, this time just looking for phrases that weren't jaw-droppingly stupid, totally unproven, scientifically indefensible and wildly speculative. I found two: (i) "we also have some control over social controls themselves" and (ii)"Humans simply do not exhibit the same breeding behaviors as other species, we have an enormously wide range of different behaviors".

I was pleasantly surprised to discover there was actually two such phrases buried deep in the gibberish. I wasn't expecting that many.

I don't suppose you care to actually offer any alternative theories for the empirical phenomena I'm describing, or are you content to pretend ad hominem is valid argumentative technique?

You might start with Restak's, The Brain, if you're having trouble keeping up.

< Message edited by xssve -- 5/25/2011 8:21:15 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 236

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 8:23:46 AM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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xssve, Would you like to fix the quotes in your post so that things that I actually said will be attributed to me and things said by other are clearly differentiated? Thanks.

Edited to add: I see you have done that now. Thank you for your trouble.
Despite your kind invitation, I have neither the desire nor the intention of engaging with you about such trash lest I inadvertently give it any credibility. It has none.

When you establish some basis for your nonsensical claims other than your own lurid fantasies I may re-consider.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 5/25/2011 8:28:42 AM >

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Post #: 237

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 8:29:53 AM

xssve

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Right and wrong, good and evil, are not biological concepts, they're abstract categorizations w/respect to social behavior among humans - ethical behavior has distinct advantages in terms of group fitness at the individual, biological level, just as unethical behavior tends to compromise group fitness, and eventually, individual fitness.

There are excellent biological reasons for the fact that 90% of the worlds population goes around systematically not killing and raping each other.

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 238

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 8:31:03 AM

xssve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

xssve, Would you like to fix the quotes in your post so that things that I actually said will be attributed to me and things said by other are clearly differentiated? Thanks.

Edited to add: I see you have done that now. Thank you for your trouble.
Despite your kind invitation, I have neither the desire nor the intention of engaging with you about such trash lest I inadvertently give it any credibility. It has none.

When you establish some basis for your nonsensical claims other than your own lurid fantasies I may re-consider.

That's not a response, it's rhetoric, I can substantiate every statement I've made.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 239

RE: Sex Slavery in The US: Why can't American Men Keep ... - 5/25/2011 8:38:24 AM

xssve

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Joined: 10/10/2009
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Please feel free to point out any single point you would like me to substantiate.

quote:

There are excellent biological reasons for the fact that 90% of the worlds population goes around systematically not killing and raping each other.

In spite of which, something like half the Eurasian population is genetically related to Genghis Khan.

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 240

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