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Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:51:36 AM)

Really, you did, perhaps without recognizing it. Without free trade, foreign goods jump in price, abroad and domestically. So we buy less--but we sell less too, and in several areas, we're the world leaders (computers tops the list...also wheat, a bunch of stuff...I'm running out the door, but you can Google U.S. exports). We are, after all, 1/5 of the global economy. We're hardly struggling.

So protectionism rolls in, and traded goods are prohibitively expensive. 1/7 of the work force is laid off (that portion producing exports) on top of the current unemployment. Many of the goods we buy today jump tremendously in price, with shortages in many cases. Businesses will sit on excess capacity, making future hiring far off. How's that going to help?

Instead, look at the real causes. Credit is still tight, because banks aren't lending excess cash and businesses aren't investing cash reserves. That's the problem. Until that gets flowing again, expect business to do as it has--focus on productivity instead of increasing labor to meet demand (because there is growth and demand).

One of the most important things I teach my professional students is that they aren't dependent on finding a job to make an income. That's where Americans should rise to the occasion--stop blaming business and government and the times, and instead, respond to the current environment with sound plans and get to work. Hell, even as an employee, the last three jobs I had didn't exist until I created and proposed them.

Solve real problems, bring the skills to do it, and there is always work. Always.





willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 9:04:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ebonywarqueen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Unless you feel much more expensive goods is the key to helping people.


So far cheaper goods has not seemed to have much of a positive effect on our economy.


Dont be ridiculous. Paying less for the same goods has to have a positive impact on an economy.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 9:07:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ebonywarqueen



why are 13 million Americans unemployed??? Why did 1 MILLION people apply for 65,000 jobs at McDonalds???


Your answers can be found in one place. 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington DC, 00000-0000




mnottertail -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 9:09:27 AM)

Don't be ridiculous.  Credible proofs or credible citations.

So far, since those cheap goods are made overseas and the money goes there, they drain our economy, and we cannot balance our payments because our goods don't sell as well over there.

You know, been in all the papers, economists are talking about it, politicians.... 



ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 9:13:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Really, you did, perhaps without recognizing it. Without free trade, foreign goods jump in price, abroad and domestically. So we buy less--but we sell less too, and in several areas, we're the world leaders (computers tops the list...also wheat, a bunch of stuff...I'm running out the door, but you can Google U.S. exports). We are, after all, 1/5 of the global economy. We're hardly struggling.

NAFTA was passed in 1993....are you honestly telling me we did not trade before then?????? And maybe YOU are not struggling but a LOT of people in the US are struggling.

So protectionism rolls in, and traded goods are prohibitively expensive. 1/7 of the work force is laid off (that portion producing exports) on top of the current unemployment. Many of the goods we buy today jump tremendously in price, with shortages in many cases. Businesses will sit on excess capacity, making future hiring far off. How's that going to help?

The Economic Policy Institute shows that the NAFTA agreement is directly responsible for the loss of 1,673,454 U.S. jobs, meaning that the net effect of imports and exports results in 879,280 less jobs in the United States.

Instead, look at the real causes. Credit is still tight, because banks aren't lending excess cash and businesses aren't investing cash reserves. That's the problem. Until that gets flowing again, expect business to do as it has--focus on productivity instead of increasing labor to meet demand (because there is growth and demand).

Its a vicious cycle. Banks won't loan to broke people. People with money don't trust banks. Until we get more people working who can afford the loans and restore public faith in our economy the cycle will continue

One of the most important things I teach my professional students is that they aren't dependent on finding a job to make an income. That's where Americans should rise to the occasion--stop blaming business and government and the times, and instead, respond to the current environment with sound plans and get to work. Hell, even as an employee, the last three jobs I had didn't exist until I created and proposed them.

Solve real problems, bring the skills to do it, and there is always work. Always.

So you are saying that 13 million people just CHOOSE to not work? Just CHOSE to lose their homes? Just CHOSE poverty? I tend to think if there is work people will work. If there is not work they CAN'T. but why don't you enlighten us. Share some of these sound plans to get to work. I am sure there are lots of people who would love to know how to create a job for themselves at companies who have already refused to hire them.






Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 1:06:42 PM)

Sigh.

Whenever "So you are saying that _______" comes up, have you noticed that the discussion is over? Because at that point, the speaker is making up positions for convenience, rather than addressing the actual points raised. That's the case here too.

You are taking contradictory positions, post to post, in your zeal to simply be right. So, be right. But problems aren't solved on fantasies.

First, you complain people waste their resources on stuff, champion their heroic rise to the occasion, and now you're back to them struggling. All that at once?

I've explained the importance of export markets. You again are ignoring this, going back to 1993 (and ignoring that the economy boomed during the 90s) . That neither changes nor addresses the point.

You're then making up this silly position that we didn't trade before then. If there's no impact, then why your opposition? Stop being silly. Free trade lowers barriers to trade. Barriers to trade mean less trade. That's why we call them barriers. It's not trade or no trade, but a matter of degree, obviously.

NAFTA is only one of our free trade agreements--APEC in particular comes to mind. But since you want to rant about NAFTA, OK. Consider:

# Since NAFTA came into effect, merchandise trade among the NAFTA partners has more than tripled, reaching US$946.1 billion in 2008. Over that period, Canada-U.S. trade has nearly tripled, while trade between Mexico and the U.S. has more than quadrupled. [C$ figure = $1.0 trillion]

# Today, the NAFTA partners exchange about US$2.6 billion in merchandise on a daily basis with each other. That’s about US$108 million per hour. [C$ figures = $2.8 billion and $115 million]

# Since NAFTA came into effect, the North American economy has more than doubled in size. The combined gross domestic product (GDP) for Canada, the United States, and Mexico surpassed US$17 trillion in 2008, up from US$7.6 trillion in 1993. [C$ figures = $18.2 trillion and $9.8 trillion]

# In 2008, Canada and the United States’ inward foreign direct investment stocks from NAFTA partner countries reached US$469.8 billion. Meanwhile, Mexico has become one of the largest recipients of foreign direct investment among emerging markets, and received US$156 billion from its NAFTA partners between 1993 and 2008.

# North American employment levels have climbed nearly 23% since 1993, representing a net gain of 39.7 million jobs.

As for the credit crunch, you're talking about something entirely different, and not at all related to economic activity or employment. When the excess I'm talking about flows again, we can start seeing new investment--and more jobs again. What you're talking about is just silly. Obviously, a bank doesn't loan money to someone unable to pay it back. Hello. As for people with money not trusting banks--you're making that up, and you're ridiculously wrong. Just where do you suppose they're putting their money? How are they writing checks? Please. And putting more people back to work isn't going to change the current credit crunch, because that isn't the problem. It's unusual for banks and businesses to sit on cash, because that's an opportunity cost. The reason is uncertainty, about the value of financial assets in the wake of the bundled mortgage derivatives mess, and about the direction of the economy in a changing world, health care not the least of that, along with international crises and their impacts. When that settles, they'll again loan.

You last paragraph just makes up a string of things I didn't say, so there's your answer. Your last sentence ignores that I've already explained how, but adds something I never said--at the company that refused to hire them.

People have trouble finding work when they insist on working as they always have and seek that same situation when economic needs no longer require it. Instead, look at one's individual and unique skill set, find and address real needs (of your clients or employers), and you'll be an asset. And until everything is wonderful, until there are no problems to be solved anywhere, that's always possible.

But it means change. People are reluctant to do so. It holds them back.

And incidentally, enlightening my students about this is exactly why they're spending their summer at jobs or internships, even in this economy.




tj444 -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 1:21:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ebonywarqueen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And I'm pointing out to you that it has helped, despite your perspective (based on no data).

Mexico and Canada are our largest markets. Larger than China.

That means net jobs. Many, many net jobs.


If there are many many net jobs why are 13 million Americans unemployed??? Why did 1 MILLION people apply for 65,000 jobs at McDonalds??? Show me the data on these jobs.


There are millions unemployed in the US because of the banks, lax mortgage lending and a housing bubble and subsequent crash. There is not much left of the construction industry, not like it was at the peak, so the majority of those jobs are gone, gone, gone and related jobs in the mortgage industry, real estate industry, even furniture industry (& related) that people that move into a house spend money on. It has very little if anything to do with NAFTA.
It is easy to throw out stats but the question is, what did these people do before they became unemployed?



ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 2:40:18 PM)


I never said we didn't trade before NAFTA YOU implied that and tried to attribute it to me. I only stated the stats regarding job losses since NAFTA was inacted and you have to refute those job losses.

NAFTA is only one of our free trade agreements--APEC in particular comes to mind. But since you want to rant about NAFTA, OK. Consider:

I never stated NAFTA was the SOLE cause of jobs lost in this country did I? I only attributed over a million job losses to them.

As for the credit crunch, you're talking about something entirely different, and not at all related to economic activity or employment. When the excess I'm talking about flows again, we can start seeing new investment--and more jobs again.
The reason is uncertainty, about the value of financial assets in the wake of the bundled mortgage derivatives mess, and about the direction of the economy in a changing world, health care not the least of that, along with international crises and their impacts. When that settles, they'll again loan.

Actually that is what I said also. Its a vicious cycle. When people have more confidence in our banking industry things will turn around AND the people with money do NOT trust banks I really should have said US BANKS. (you call it uncertainty I call distrust). They may use checking accounts because they have to; but they are stashing their big money in foreign accounts and in fact the govn't has recently mentioned going after people with foreign accounts because they believe they are avoiding taxes...but neverthelesss a checking account is a bit different from an investment account.

People have trouble finding work when they insist on working as they always have and seek that same situation when economic needs no longer require it. Instead, look at one's individual and unique skill set, find and address real needs (of your clients or employers), and you'll be an asset. And until everything is wonderful, until there are no problems to be solved anywhere, that's always possible.

You are right....It is always possible to address real needs and use your skills, but it is not ALWAYS possible to get PAID for it. If one million people were willing to work at McDonalds. I say they ARE willing to do things they have not normally done. There are numerous reports of people with Bachelors and Masters degrees applying to work at McDonalds. If you pay people they will work. This is America most people will do anything for money. We know 1 million people were willing to flip burgers and we also know that over 935,000 of them went back home jobless. We don't KNOW that anyone is refusing work because it is not the work they are accustomed to. THAT IS AN ASSUMPTION YOU MAKE. And no matter how talented and creative you are at work if they cannot afford pay you, they fire you.

PS- calling me silly and all that childishness does not add to your credibility. Neither does repeating you teach students in every post. It just makes you sound pretentious and less credible.



ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 2:47:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

There are millions unemployed in the US because of the banks, lax mortgage lending and a housing bubble and subsequent crash. There is not much left of the construction industry, not like it was at the peak, so the majority of those jobs are gone, gone, gone and related jobs in the mortgage industry, real estate industry, even furniture industry (& related) that people that move into a house spend money on. It has very little if anything to do with NAFTA.
It is easy to throw out stats but the question is, what did these people do before they became unemployed?


Agreed- and AGAIN I never anywhere stated that NAFTA was the SOLE cause of unemployment in this country. I named it as one of the causes of unemployment. Specifically over 1 million jobs. And we cannot forget that economics are all related whether they are legs of that industry or not. A construction worker cannot find a job, so he and his family buy less, stores make less money then retail workers lose jobs as well. Fewer taxes are taken in from unemployed people so public workers get laid off as well, jobless people cannot buy houses and that goes right back to the construction industry. Sooner or later we will all realize that we are all interconnected.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 2:50:23 PM)

Again, you aren't getting it. Nothing I'm saying is about settling for McDonalds. That's the opposite of what I'm talking about, which is truly assessing one's skills and addressing effectively real problems. If you do that, people will find it to their advantage to pay. If not, it's not a real problem, try again.

Your story about cash fleeing U.S. Banks for foreign banks is pure fantasy. Show me proof.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 2:51:52 PM)

quote:

Sooner or later we will all realize that we are all interconnected.


Welcome to the global economy.



ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:12:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Again, you aren't getting it. Nothing I'm saying is about settling for McDonalds. That's the opposite of what I'm talking about, which is truly assessing one's skills and addressing effectively real problems. If you do that, people will find it to their advantage to pay. If not, it's not a real problem, try again.

And you assume people are not doing that....Its called hustling and people have been doing it since the dawn of time. Especially in my community. The only difference now is when I see people hustling on the streets I walk by because I can no longer afford to pay them. Its easy to teach this theory from a classrom. go out in the real world and see how it works. For 13 million people, its NOT working.

Your story about cash fleeing U.S. Banks for foreign banks is pure fantasy. Show me proof.

I didn't make the accusation the govn't did. Nevertheless ONE swiss bank admitted to hiding over 4400 accounts and over 18 BILLION in assets for US tax evaders. And note these are just the ones they admitted to because they were suspected of tax evasion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/business/global/20ubs.html



EternalHoH -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:22:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Welcome to the global economy.




And pretty soon, its going to be "welcome to the global depression".

What the fuck is this obsession with global? Are we not thinking that global has risks that being a stand-alone economy doesn't have?

MM, you spend an awful amount of time defending globalization, free trade agreements that aren't fair trade agreements, and confusing a credit binge with "proof that NAFTA works".

Its all bullshit.







Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:26:41 PM)

Again, you are talking about the OPPOSITE of what I'm talking about. And I've already told you my students have jobs, right out of school. We'll see about the rest--my partner and I are putting together a workshop to help people with exactly this problem.

The last--this is why I call you silly. You repeated it without saying the government did it. And you haven't supported it. Nonetheless...18 billion of a 15 trillion dollar annual economy is one-tenth of one percent. Hardly a factor. And STILL ignores the credit issue that's the real problem.

Only by facing the actual problems, not our attitudes and perceptions, do things actually get resolved.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:28:04 PM)

quote:

What the fuck is this obsession with global? Are we not thinking that global has risks that being a stand-alone economy doesn't have?


Not selling it--just pointing out reality.

Ignoring that reality is just silly.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:29:09 PM)

quote:

confusing a credit binge with "proof that NAFTA works".


Actually, I was pointing out that the two are NOT the same. Go back and read more carefully.

And it's a credit crunch, not a binge.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:31:26 PM)

quote:

Its all bullshit.


No, it's the ATTITUDES that are bullshit. Unsupported, ignoring data, perpetuating myths that keep people down.

Reality makes solving problems, social and personal, so much more effective.



ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:46:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The last--this is why I call you silly. You repeated it without saying the government did it. And you haven't supported it. Nonetheless...18 billion of a 15 trillion dollar annual economy is one-tenth of one percent. Hardly a factor. And STILL ignores the credit issue that's the real problem.

Only by facing the actual problems, not our attitudes and perceptions, do things actually get resolved.



You said the fact that people with money in the US was stashing it overseas was PURE FANTASY on my part. I just demonstrated to you that I DID NOT MAKE IT UP. And instead of just saying you were wrong, you want to pretend that I said ALL American dollars were being hidden overseas.........I never said that and I seriously don't think you thought I was saying that. but if only ONE bank so far has admitted to hiding over 18 BILLION then there has to be more. More in THAT bank and more in other banks. You probably won't admit it, but you know that is more likely true than not true. and so does the IRS- they are still looking. That being said- good job with your students (whom you AGAIN mentioned)[sm=sigh.gif] and I commend you in trying to help others find work or other reliable means of income. Good luck.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:52:16 PM)

quote:

I just demonstrated to you that I DID NOT MAKE IT UP.


You presented the bank nonsense as an argument that people in the U.S. mistrusted U.S. banks.

Turns out you were talking about tax evasion. Hardly a mistrust of U.S. banks--just an urge to hide assets.



Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 3:53:46 PM)

quote:

whom you AGAIN mentioned


Because you AGAIN mentioned getting into the real world. I'm there.




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