RE: Is employment a right part duex

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tj444 -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:10:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EternalHoH quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I dont know what Walmart sneakers have to do with nafta, neither Canada nor Mexico manufacture sneakers, they come from sweat shops in China, India or some other such country. Dont be an ass. NAFTA, for the context of this discussion, is just a euphemism for every bad trade deal this country ever got involved with. I disagree with your euphemism since I dont see nafta as a bad trade deal. I think it has worked fairly well for both Canada and the US.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:27:16 PM)
quote: so NO I did not keep going on about NAFTA you and MusicMystery do Huh? You brought it up, and I answered. How is that "going on about" it? Reality check, please.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:31:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ebonywarqueen quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: I just demonstrated to you that I DID NOT MAKE IT UP. You presented the bank nonsense as an argument that people in the U.S. mistrusted U.S. banks. Turns out you were talking about tax evasion. Hardly a mistrust of U.S. banks--just an urge to hide assets. If people with money are choosing foreign banks over us banks they DO distrust US banks. whether they think they will be reported for tax evasion or they just just the banks are crummy. They STILL do not trust US the banks to safeguard their wealth. One-tenth of one percent, the $18 billion of a $15 trillion economy you noted, is really not a representative sample, don't you think?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:31:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EternalHoH quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I dont know what Walmart sneakers have to do with nafta, neither Canada nor Mexico manufacture sneakers, they come from sweat shops in China, India or some other such country. Dont be an ass. NAFTA, for the context of this discussion, is just a euphemism for every bad trade deal this country ever got involved with. Thats the most creative backpedal Ive ever read. You can leave the thread now out of embarassment.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/19/2011 8:37:00 PM)
quote: but we actively push our economy into an equally inter-connected global system? Because its a 'hip' thing to do? Um...sorry, but the ship sailed on that one over a century ago. It's not news.

ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 12:50:36 AM)
MM - you said my statement about people putting their money in Foreign banks was "pure fantasy" YOUR words. I proved to you it was not. I don't have to show stats on how much it is to show it was not pure fantasy. Which was one of many codescending remarks you made to me in this thread. You were basically accusing me of making it up. You were just wrong about that. Everyone knows it. Just let it go.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 6:15:10 AM)
Sigh. And you wonder why I say you're being silly. You were making the point that people don't trust U.S. banks and were turning to foreign banks as more reliable. When pressed for an example, you had only that one, criminals dodging income taxes by hiding assets. That's like saying people don't trust the police because bank robbers run from them. I think you mean "condescending."

ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 6:51:29 AM)
Thank you for spotting the typo made from my iphone. The fact is you said my statement was PURE FANTASY and it was not. Yes I showed one example. I don't need any more than one to prove that people in the US are putting money in foreign accounts. The IRS agrees with me and one of the largest Swiss banks admitted it. Just be a man about it. YOU WERE JUST WRONG. But since you cannot admit that for some reason, Just do like Charlie Sheen, yell "winning" real loud then call the other side names. In fact, lets end it like this. I am wrong. You're right. The IRS is lying and the Swiss bank lied on itself about the 18 billion dollars. Maybe now we can just let it go. Either way I am done with you. edited to change million to billion.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 7:01:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ebonywarqueen People with money don't trust banks. Until we get more people working who can afford the loans and restore public faith in our economy the cycle will continue Yet again, here's what you said. And yes, it's pure fantasy. If you think hiding assets for tax evasion is the same point, then there's not much to say. Enjoy.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 7:23:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow quote: Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society". Without The Great Society (for borrowed money) and with "Free Trade" (de-industrialized service economy) we would have been a Banana Republic without bananas long time ago. The global economy is unavoidable. Draining money out of the domestic economy isnt. Bananas dont grow in a sinkhole. What ? 'Draining' money out of domestic economies is the capitalists reason for being. Society is to serve investors, that's what our govt. protects...even subsidizes with our labor and our tax money. No, employment is not a right and in fact...life is not a right as recognized and guaranteed by govt. If it was a 'right' then all would have a 'right' to food, clothing and shelter and clearly...we do not. The rest is conversation. The so-called 'global' economy exists to exploit the most oppressed peasant labor as in China who are very fast learners and have the ideal now...fascist capitalism. People can call it/them what they want but that is what they are and is the only way the great party proletariat can go and lose millions in Vegas.

ebonywarqueen -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 8:03:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers What ? 'Draining' money out of domestic economies is the capitalists reason for being. Society is to serve investors, that's what our govt. protects...even subsidizes with our labor and our tax money. No, employment is not a right and in fact...life is not a right as recognized and guaranteed by govt. If it was a 'right' then all would have a 'right' to food, clothing and shelter and clearly...we do not. The rest is conversation. The so-called 'global' economy exists to exploit the most oppressed peasant labor as in China who are very fast learners and have the ideal now...fascist capitalism. People can call it/them what they want but that is what they are and is the only way the great party proletariat can go and lose millions in Vegas. Mr. Rodgers: This country was built on free and cheap labor. Whether it was indentured servants, slaves, sharecroppers, immigrant workers and now illegal aliens; this country has ALWAYS found a way to exploit the poor and minority for the benefit of wealthy. And now, we have found a way to do it globally. But no need to worry as the gap between the rich and poor get wider, they will still need cheap labor in this country too which is exactly what they are pushing for.- a lower class of servant workers to serve and make products for a middle class of workers who have to spend whatever they make just to survive; and both classes floating more and more money towards the upper class who control the majority of the wealth.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 9:08:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow quote: Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society". Without The Great Society (for borrowed money) and with "Free Trade" (de-industrialized service economy) we would have been a Banana Republic without bananas long time ago. The global economy is unavoidable. Draining money out of the domestic economy isnt. Bananas dont grow in a sinkhole. What ? 'Draining' money out of domestic economies is the capitalists reason for being. Society is to serve investors, that's what our govt. protects...even subsidizes with our labor and our tax money. No, employment is not a right and in fact...life is not a right as recognized and guaranteed by govt. If it was a 'right' then all would have a 'right' to food, clothing and shelter and clearly...we do not. The rest is conversation. The so-called 'global' economy exists to exploit the most oppressed peasant labor as in China who are very fast learners and have the ideal now...fascist capitalism. People can call it/them what they want but that is what they are and is the only way the great party proletariat can go and lose millions in Vegas. ROFL. Why do you insist on continuously proving that you have no idea about economics? Hint: Capitalists cannot succeed without putting money INTO the economy. That is the very essence of capitalism.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 9:12:10 AM)
Society also takes from those with capital, MR. Property taxes, capital gains taxes, non-exempt dividends, luxury taxes....

MrRodgers -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 10:14:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Fellow quote: Too bad youre wrong. It has nothing to do with Free Trade, and everything to do with "The Great Society". Without The Great Society (for borrowed money) and with "Free Trade" (de-industrialized service economy) we would have been a Banana Republic without bananas long time ago. The global economy is unavoidable. Draining money out of the domestic economy isnt. Bananas dont grow in a sinkhole. What ? 'Draining' money out of domestic economies is the capitalists reason for being. Society is to serve investors, that's what our govt. protects...even subsidizes with our labor and our tax money. No, employment is not a right and in fact...life is not a right as recognized and guaranteed by govt. If it was a 'right' then all would have a 'right' to food, clothing and shelter and clearly...we do not. The rest is conversation. The so-called 'global' economy exists to exploit the most oppressed peasant labor as in China who are very fast learners and have the ideal now...fascist capitalism. People can call it/them what they want but that is what they are and is the only way the great party proletariat can go and lose millions in Vegas. ROFL. Why do you insist on continuously proving that you have no idea about economics? Hint: Capitalists cannot succeed without putting money INTO the economy. That is the very essence of capitalism. But o'contraire...I know more than enough about economics to know that since the end of WWII that irrespective of what is 'invested' the average American worker is poorer...not richer and getting poorer or deeper in debt almost everyday. Certain of society's people have many things but not without the vast majority going into long term debt, much longer than in the past to obtain them. The over all US accumulation of debt refutes most eloquently that we are not getting richer and that in fact only...the lenders are. Meanwhile, the investor class has received in the last 30 years, an increase in wealth that may be unprecedented in history. Thus America is 92nd in distribution of wealth. Clearly more of the benefits of economy has accrued more to people of some 91 other countries...than the US. The rellevent question for society to ask is...How does economy serve me ? So here's a chance to answer that question and tell us professor...how does economy work ?

MrRodgers -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 10:26:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Society also takes from those with capital, MR. Property taxes, capital gains taxes, non-exempt dividends, luxury taxes.... Many in the middle class use those advantages too but the greatest advantage goes to those with the greatest investments. For example, those with the ability can borrow vast sums, buy something, hold it for a year and pay 15% capital gains. You work for that 'investor' bust your butt, make good money and pay 35%. So society takes less than 1/2 as much from them as [it] takes from you. Why ? Property taxes are a fact of life for everybody with taxable property, haven't the slightest idea what you call 'non-exempt' dividends and whoever buys certain luxury items, pay any resulting tax. The wealthy may pay more because they enjoy so much more luxury. Kinkroids the richest 400 filers according to the IRS each made an average of $335 million in 2010 and paid in taxes an effective rate (mixture) of 18%. Their hardest working, most talented few employees they use...pay 35%. Why ? Look at all of the numbers say dating from 1955 and actually research economic history. It tells a different story than the one we've asked to believe since.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 10:29:27 AM)
quote: since the end of WWII that irrespective of what is 'invested' the average American worker is poorer. I doubt that's true of the 50s and 60s. You're then contrasting that with since 1981, where yes, stratification increases.

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 10:32:48 AM)
quote: You work for that 'investor' bust your butt, make good money and pay 35%. So society takes less than 1/2 as much from them as [it] takes from you. Why ? Because you're ignoring (1) that's not how marginal tax rates work, (2) that employers have additional taxes, and that (3) the capital invested didn't come from nowhere, representing past creation on the part of someone.

MrRodgers -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 10:49:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: since the end of WWII that irrespective of what is 'invested' the average American worker is poorer. I doubt that's true of the 50s and 60s. You're then contrasting that with since 1981, where yes, stratification increases. Well some will tell you that the inflationary 60's and VN war spending is what started the middle class down that road. Example (look it up) a typical 4 bdrm colonial brick home in suburban Phil., Pa. in the 1870's to 80's was about $1,500 by the 1920's the same house in Detroit on city sewer & water was get this...about $1,500. A new suburban market emerged about the 1960's (Levittown) with homes in the $7-$10,000 range. So we have in the first 40-50 years, almost no inflation. Then we get the fed, a confirmed, capitalist monetary system and we see still not too bad but 40 years inflation in housing about a 500%. Fast forward to 40-50 years and that same house is up 5,000% higher and by 10 times the inflation rate of what was already inflated housing by 5 times. You begin to get the picture, the capitalist monetary system...IS inflation. Look at the capitalist paper-speculation in oil now. It is all making the average worker poorer and those investor and the over all investor class...a whole lot richer and directly at your and govt's expense. Are we rich yet ?

Musicmystery -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 10:52:12 AM)
Levittown houses go for $350,000 - $500,000 these days? What cost $7000 in 1960 would cost $50,946.50 in 2010. What cost $7000 in 1960 would cost $50,946.50 in 2010. I wish I'd bought in--dang! The Fed started in 1913. The average income $of 4743 in 1960 would be $34,519.89 in 2010 adjusted for inflation. But the average income (median) is $46,000 in 2010. (I understand that can be parsed six ways of Sunday).

MrRodgers -> RE: Is employment a right part duex (5/20/2011 11:05:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: You work for that 'investor' bust your butt, make good money and pay 35%. So society takes less than 1/2 as much from them as [it] takes from you. Why ? Because you're ignoring (1) that's not how marginal tax rates work, (2) that employers have additional taxes, and that (3) the capital invested didn't come from nowhere, representing past creation on the part of someone. What is it that has you not understand about the difference in wages and capital gains ? My 'marginal' rate after it all said and done, i.e., adjusted gross income on a 1040 form, is 35%. My tax rate on my long term capital gains basis (net)...is 15%. Those that work for a wage and make enough pay 35%. Whereas I don't need to be a company, or any kind of organization. I don't need to be an employer or to hire anybody. I can work out of my recroom. I can buy an apt. bldg., raise rents, hold it for a year, sell it and make $1,000's or $millions and pay 15%. You see, what by far most people make is called income from a real job. What I make is called 'long term' [sic] capital gains investing from the golf course. You pay 35%, I pay 15. The rest is irrelevant. If you have something to add of real relevance to this debate, do not hesitate to inform but explain how it works.

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