RE: about jeaulousy..

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BreakingGlass -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/12/2006 9:37:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy To me, the core problem and danger of jealousy is how it undermines trust and openess. On the other hand, by building up an even higher trust level, I think one can successfully manage and negotiate jealousy in a relationship. The higher trust level is how my situation actually turned out. It actually brought us closer together. Not the ideal way of doing it, granted, but it's how it happened.

cloudboy -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/12/2006 9:38:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressLove999 The first marriage at such a young age UGH, and him screwing any/every thing that had a hole, sure I was jealous and found out years later(when I walked away) that my every worry and concern was correct, it wasn't me being over jealous, it was all of his lies and cheating. Some times these things slap you in the face, and sometimes it's in your gut instincts. Trust me I tried very very hard to make that marriage work (waste of 10yrs). Jealously and betrayal are separate and distinct from one another. Betrayal is concrete and factual, whereas jealously is more nebulous, and is often a product of one's mind and emotions.

KnightofMists -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/12/2006 9:58:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin This article backs up My statement perfectly, and it comes from the New York Public Library. http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/goldman/jealousy.html This is an op ed written by a woman who died 65 years ago. How does that back up your statement? There is no empirical data to support it, no scientific analysis, nothing. It just someone whose opinion meshes with your own. Nothing of 'fact' about it. Celeste Then do the search for yourself. I just picked one article out of thousands, and they all say the same thing. Are you going to call them all liars? Rather presumptuous of you, no? Have you done any research on this? I have. This is not the first forum I have debated this topic. I grant there are other opinions, of course, and I will not say they are not valid. I just wanted to present what I found out through My research on the topic. Opinions are like assholes ... everyone has one... and you can pick them by the thousands. But if you actaully want to support your claim... don't you think picking the opinion that is actually from someone that has an expertise in the field of mental/emotional issues such as jealousy. We have problems with the our Car and you bring us an opinion from the Carpenter. The Carpenter might be right... but frankly.. one looks alot more creditable in their opinion if they are speaking from personal experience or shared the opinion of the a Mechanic. I don't know about you .... but I would pefer the Mechanic to fix my car not a Carpenter.

ownedgirlie -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/12/2006 11:09:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Truthfully, and I am being very honest here, I would ask her why the jealousy when I explicitly told her in no uncertain terms that I would not put up with it. If there was no decent response (and it would have to be really good, like I totally screwed up or something) and it did not change in very short order she would be immediately dismissed. That would be it. See, I have found that women are very easy to come by. There truly is no shortage of them and I have never had a problem finding one. Why, then, would I willingly subject Myself to that torture, not knowing when My next move might put her panties in a twist? I would rather be alone and wait for the next one to come along. As I explained already, dealing with jealousy, in My experience at least, can be brutal. I never want to go through that hell again. It has been my experience that it takes an excellent dominant, intelligent in the ways of the mind, to teach his submissive to resolve and move past her jealousy issues. As one who was once very insecure and felt twinges of pain at the thought of Master with another, I now freely accept and welcome other submissives in his life, and would assist him in the training of a girl he might find appropriate. This took energy and effort on both our parts, to work beyond what the mind has fathomed and march directly into truth. The result has been phenominal - a bond as strong as ever, and submission to the depths of me. It is unfortunate that others would rather discard a human than aquire the wisdom to know what to do in a situation. In this throw-away society, I suppose those lacking in knowledge throw away humans in exchange for another to come along. I guess it's just easier that way. I am glad I belong to someone who is strong enough to not choose the easy route simply because it is easy.

ownedgirlie -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/12/2006 11:13:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Heh. Can you tell I have dated jealous women? What a disaster. Sheesh. I had one so jealous that I could not even go over to My neighbors house, who was a female, with her pounding on the door, yelling and screaming, accusing Me of cheating on her and throwing herself down on the lawn, yelling and screaming at Me. Actually, this is beyond the scope of normal jealousy, which was what the OP was about. This is a truly troubled woman with emotional issues, who was clearly out of control. You are lumping all of jealousy into this category.

ownedgirlie -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/12/2006 11:15:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You ALONE are responsible for your emotions and what you do with them. Nobody MAKES you do anything. This includes anger by the way. Then, if I may ask, why are you coming across so damned angry?

meatcleaver -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 2:22:41 AM)
I can only think that SirK handles difficult issues by running away and dismissing jealousy as a mental issue he can rationalise his behaviour to be right and proper. We discuss emotions as if they are independent of each other to be concise and save us writing a thesis every time we discuss them but emotions aren't independent of each other, emotions influence and impact on each other. Extreme jealousy can be a very difficult emotion to cope with for both parties but the one thing that will surely make such emotion worse, is refusing to discuss issues surrounding it. I'm just wondering if you can experience romantic love without experiencing jealousy.

meatcleaver -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 2:26:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BreakingGlass quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy To me, the core problem and danger of jealousy is how it undermines trust and openess. On the other hand, by building up an even higher trust level, I think one can successfully manage and negotiate jealousy in a relationship. The higher trust level is how my situation actually turned out. It actually brought us closer together. Not the ideal way of doing it, granted, but it's how it happened. That I can understand. That is another reason why I question the strong empahasis on trust in BDSM relationships, one needs to keep a healthy scepticism. It is so easy to have ones legs kicked from underneath one if you put yourself out there.

irishbynature -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 2:52:06 AM)
A little bit jealousy is normal....we are human after all. In healthy situations, we discuss and work out our insecurities. However, several years ago, my former became so jealous of anyone that I had in my life...that the entire relationship began to crumble. I would get slack for talking to my girlfriends over the phone...even visiting my parents got him feeling he was "out of control" in some way....he would always say he was sorry, and that he would get it together. Never happened. I had to end the relationship after he began stalking me at work, home...through emails, over the phone..and following me around while I drove. Eventually, I had to get a court order of protection. My point is...if you become jealous..discuss it with your partner...be honest and keep the communication open. If you find your partner to be so jealous and they wish to control your life, friends, work, family...then you have a serious problem to confront.[8\|]

wouldlike2 -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 4:30:07 AM)
thanks a lot to A/all for the posts... indeed it is very interesting for me to read them. especially cause whenever i read a site about BDSM and therefor t doesnt matter from the Dom or sub perspective - so often i found jeaulousy has nothing to do with that lifestyle. for me.. and i am just speaking about myself. jeaulousy is a part of me. and yes i try to deal with. it does need a safe and secure environment for myself. and i do make a difference between betrayal - when i definitly find out that i was cheated on and the emotion/ feeling of being jeaoulous. may its based on the past.. on a trust issue.. or whatever reason it might be. if i am not allowed to show up these feeling inside me and to speak openly my inside its gonna hard to open up and trust. trust is something for me it is growing. i do have a base and with time and when the actions , manners, behaviuor, attidude , words fit together it does let me feel secure and my trust grows. it is strange to me sometimes that i had talkings with Dom/Masters and they told me - me as a sub i have to accept that they for example "f***" play with another woman cause its a need for them and at least i do have to obey - but then at the same time telling me they do not wanna share me - cause just simple they tell so. i am human... and even when i strive to grow and to develop... i fail. as a human being and i see the D/s relation as a relationship emotions and feelings are involved my Dom always be happy when i open up emotional and being vulnerable - especially in moments when He create with me and i get lost in that. to seperate one feeling to another would at least split me.... how should that work? but these are just my two cent.....

ShiftedJewel -> RE: about jealousy.. (5/13/2006 4:44:32 AM)
quote: i would think that there would be alot of jealousy in poly homes or with Dominants that have a harem. *That's a nice generalization... Anyway, being part of a poly home I say that you are terrible wrong. Part of what makes a good, solid poly home possible is the LACK of jealousy.* quote: Plainly put, if you are jealous you have issues and you are going to destroy your relationship if you do not deal with them.. By "mental problems" I meant having issues inside your head, and that is exactly where jealousy stems from. *I agree Kenin (not something I ever pictured my self saying... lol) But this part is on the money as far as I'm concerned.* quote: This is an op ed written by a woman who died 65 years ago. What does the age of the document have to do with anything? The Bible is much older, has very little "empirical data" to support it, and very little "scientific analysis" to back it up... yet people live by it daily all over the world. quote: *He believes jealousy is a necessary emotion to help men and women remain faithful and to be aware of a partner's fidelity.* *For us personally.. we stay aware of each others fidelity through open communication and total honesty.. jealousy plays no part whatsoever. I really can't even come close to grasping this concept.* quote: Buss (Psychology/Univ. of Texas; The Evolution of Desire, 1994) contends that jealousy is an indispensable component of all long-term relationships: It keeps mates together by sparking passion and commitment. (These studies include interviews with 10,000 subjects.) I've been on the other end of this kind of "passion and commitment" before... it really sucked. He was passionate all right... in his need to suffocate me. And he was truly committed as well... to making my life a living hell. quote: I can only think that SirK handles difficult issues by running away and dismissing jealousy as a mental issue he can rationalise his behaviour to be right and proper. But jealousy IS a mental issue. It isn't a physical issue, it isn't a sickness that can be cure with with a pill. It is a mental issue that stems from insecurities from within the person suffering from it. I don't deal with jealousy either. I do everything I can to show my love, loyalty and commitment to the other people in my life, if that isn't enough, if they are going to persist in being jealous then I see no other avenue then to dismiss them from my life. quote: I'm just wondering if you can experience romantic love without experiencing jealousy. Yes you can. I love my husband with my whole heart and soul, he is my best friend, my confidant, my soul mate... our love is the kind people write books about, make movies around... and there has never been one spark of jealousy between us. *Jewel*

ExistentialSteel -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 4:49:01 AM)
We all have jealousy emotions at times from my experiences in life. It is realistic to understand that some activities will make others jealous, whether they admit it or not. Keeping this in mind, I try to exhibit behavior that shows my loyalty and does not provoke jealousy. That seems to work for me. SirKenin had a traumatic experience with the sub wallowing on the lawn and screaming when he went to visit the neighbor. That was actually pretty funny. No wonder he is so cautious of jealous people. LOL

bandit25 -> RE: about jealousy.. (5/13/2006 4:49:54 AM)
Jewel, what a lovely tribute to your husband and to your lives together (I mean all of you...twicehappy also). Although I am not poly and have no desire to be, I envy the happiness the three of you have.

SirKenin -> RE: about jealousy.. (5/13/2006 6:28:21 AM)
I did not intend to come across as crass, but I now realize I did. Jealousy can occur for a lot of people. I guess what I am saying is that it does not have to. The cure lies within you. You have the power to change it. I thought about it. Just because I do not put up with jealousy does not mean I am not loving, caring et al. I certainly am all those things, believe it or not. Ask My wife. It is just that it is My perogative to not put up with nonsense. If you want to be with Me, do not bring your baggage with you. Because I have been burned very badly by it in the past, and I see how it did so much damage in My life, I will not tolerate it. There probably is someone else who will, though, so you are better off with them.

SirKenin -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 6:34:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin You ALONE are responsible for your emotions and what you do with them. Nobody MAKES you do anything. This includes anger by the way. Then, if I may ask, why are you coming across so damned angry? Good question actually. I am not angry... I found that this thread drummed up bitterness that I had hidden deep down inside. Memories of a time where jealousy destroyed a relationship because the girl put Me through hell. That was a very tough time, and I thought it was dealt with. I guess it resurfaced and showed through loud and clear in My posts. People here have said I can not deal with conflict and tough issues, but I faced it head on at the time. I tried to deal with it. I found that there was no reasoning with her. It turned out to be a complete waste of time. Jealous people just are not worth that kind of effort.

meatcleaver -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 6:49:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin Good question actually. I am not angry... I found that this thread drummed up bitterness that I had hidden deep down inside. Memories of a time where jealousy destroyed a relationship because the girl put Me through hell. That was a very tough time, and I thought it was dealt with. I guess it resurfaced and showed through loud and clear in My posts. I know the feeling. There are a couple of issues that have this affect on me. Now I understand you.

spankmepink11 -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 7:05:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twicehappy I think people are jealous because they have simply not learned that love is an amazing substance. The more of it you give away, the more of it you share, the more you have. Read my signature line; wonderfully expressed......i agree Jealousy is as natural and instinctual as many emotions are , as others on this thread have pointed out. The range between a little "healthy jealousy to keep one humble,striving for the best" ( i agree Nakedonmychain....very insightful) ... and jealous rage is pretty wide. In my opinion, how one reacts to jealousy is where the "mental issues" come into play. Much how people react to anger. If someone is going to rant/stalk/destroy out of jealousy....it would be a good bet that they would do the same out of anger...or even love , or any other potentially strong emotion. Just a thought...

Mercnbeth -> RE: about jealousy.. (5/13/2006 7:20:22 AM)
quote: any Master,slave, Dominate, submissive, or person in general can honestly say that they have NEVER felt these emotions. Slaves and submissives are told that these emotions are unbecoming. Nika, "Honestly", I have never experienced jealousy, especially regarding beth. I don't know if it's the opposite emotion, but I feel nothing but pride when anyone expresses interest in her. I see jealousy as a sign of weakness, but weakness defined as confidence. I would agree that in a relationship there should be no emotion that goes unexpressed. I think at the beginning of our relationship beth expressed some outward signs of jealousy. I didn't tell her those emotions were "unbecoming". We talked and worked together until her confidence in the relationship and my commitment to her, was the equivalent of my confidence of her commitment to me and us. There is no need for either of us to feel jealous. There is no doubt that no one, and no experience, can effect our relationship. As long as you have that level of confidence there is no place for jealousy. How can you be jealous, or envy something you already fully possess? It's very liberating. It has enabled us to completely enjoy many experiences together that wouldn't have been so much fun if jealousy was involved.

SirKenin -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 7:31:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie It has been my experience that it takes an excellent dominant, intelligent in the ways of the mind, to teach his submissive to resolve and move past her jealousy issues. As one who was once very insecure and felt twinges of pain at the thought of Master with another, I now freely accept and welcome other submissives in his life, and would assist him in the training of a girl he might find appropriate. This took energy and effort on both our parts, to work beyond what the mind has fathomed and march directly into truth. The result has been phenominal - a bond as strong as ever, and submission to the depths of me. It is unfortunate that others would rather discard a human than aquire the wisdom to know what to do in a situation. In this throw-away society, I suppose those lacking in knowledge throw away humans in exchange for another to come along. I guess it's just easier that way. I am glad I belong to someone who is strong enough to not choose the easy route simply because it is easy. Actually, it takes a Dominant who is a wuss to sit there and deal with a bunch of destructive jealousy from a sub on an ongoing basis. Ok, if there are some minor issues at first, fine, talk them through. I have no problem with that at all. However, beyond that I think they do it because they do not know when the next one will come along, so they would rather take their chances and put up with the nonsense. It is kind of like making your sex the greatest ever because you have no idea when you are going to get it again. If they are hard up and they want to deal with the rubbish, let them. I have no problem with that. But I believe it takes more strength to draw your line in the sand, stand on your own two feet and saying "I am not going to put up with your shit". If that is not enough to smarten them up then the door is the best place for them. There are plenty of women out there. No end to the lineup. Draw up the courage, tell them to shape up or ship out and find someone who is not going to put you through the ringer. I am finding more and more that the only reason men put up with some women's crap is because they believe they can not find anything better somewhere else. I am not sure if the opposite is true or not, as I can not speak from a woman's perspective. I tried to do it once out of love, but like I said she was a waste of My time. As you can tell, I have a zero tolerance policy. There is no place for jealousy in a good relationship.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: about jeaulousy.. (5/13/2006 8:39:15 AM)
I communicate directly. I tell them "Yeah that really makes me jealous" usually followed by "And I still want you to do it." At this point, I'm surprised when something hits me in the jealousy spot and have to do some self-reflection to figure out why it hit me there and how to shore myself up on that. But as long as I openly and directly communicate it with everyone, we know it's not a big deal and will smooth over. http://www.collarchat.com/m_351171/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#352231 The Green-Eyed Monster http://www.collarchat.com/m_289099/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#289531 The little green eyed monster http://www.collarchat.com/m_273729/mpage_2/key_jealousy/tm.htm#273795 Jealousy http://www.collarchat.com/m_233131/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#233136 Jealousy (2) http://www.collarchat.com/m_232405/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#232461 Jealousy (3) http://www.collarchat.com/m_209316/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#209381 Jealousy Issues http://www.collarchat.com/m_207541/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#207542 Jealousy (4)

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