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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

While browsing the dating ads-  I seen a pic of a young guy with mascara on.  

Yuck.

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Whether we like it or not, gender is one of the fundamental things in which we judge and relate to each other. The parents and others of like mind have a point in that society places powerful constraints and expectations upon us based upon notions of gender roles. Some gender roles can’t be helped. It always has been (and baring any bizarre scientific discoveries) always will be the female that pushes out the baby and the male who stands there saying, “breathe honey… breathe!” Still, many of the gender roles are artificial. There is no law of nature that says men can’t wear dresses or that women can’t have a buzz cut (things unheard of in our society not too long ago). Or we use euphemisms to differentiate by gender the same things. We tell ourselves that boys don’t play with dolls. Boys do play with dolls… we just don’t call them dolls… we call them action figures. So powerful is this need to know (so we can “properly” relate) that one of the first things we do is dress the kid up in pink or blue. And I don’t have to tell anyone out there which color stands for which… you already know.

Although we still have powerful societal expectations based upon gender, we have nonetheless “loosened up” in recent years. Women walk around in pants all the time and nobody thinks anything of it (men still attract notice for wearing a dress but that too is not the shocker it used to be). I’ve seen my grand-niece play with both baby dolls and toy trucks, and nobody really cares (truth be told I am more worried about the challenges she will face being bi-racial than any gender roles). When the parents say that they are letting their child choose… they are wrong. He (generic) can already choose. What they are really saying is they don’t want anyone influencing his choices. This is both unrealistic and cruel.

It is unrealistic because children learn by modeling other’s behavior. We often have debates in society about being good role models… usually in relation to some famous sports figure. The truth is that we are all role models to children. Every time you are in the presence of a child, you are (for better or worse) a role model… even if you are just standing their picking your nose. People will not know how to relate to this child, they will act confused toward it. If they see it doing something outside of the expected societal norms they may scowl or exhibit some other body language that denotes confusion or disapproval that will instinctually be picked up on by the child. The child will learn that it is not “normal.” No choice is a choice and no influence is influence.

It is cruel because the child will not learn how society at large expects it to behave and relate to others. This will cause confusion on the part of the child as well as self doubt and a lack of confidence in relating to other people… perpetuating an increasing cycle that could lead more psychological problems. Somebody needs to clue these parents in that what they have is a baby… not a social experiment.

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ah, its nice to know we have our own home-grown seriously fucked up twats here in canada as well.

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ORIGINAL: LinnaeaBorealis

I have no gender dysphoria, I've always believed that being a girl is what I'm supposed to be. However, I must take exception to DesFip's assertion that girls will gravitate toward girl-type toys & boys will go for boy-type toys. I wanted a train set with all my being when I was a child. One year I told Father that's what I wanted for Christmas & that was all I wanted. He told me that trains weren't for little girls & I got a doll. I hated that!!! I finally got my trainset when I was in my 50's. It was not the one I'd wanted, but I loved that train set for what it symbolized. I allowed my daughter to pick out all her own clothes & she mostly dressed like a little boy. And she liked playing with her cars as much as she liked her dolls. But she grew up to be all woman.

So that may have been your experience with your own two children, DesFip, but it certainly doesn't hold true across the board.