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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 6:30:58 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

You would have to make a plea of not guilty by the reason of insanity, and if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge agrees, there maybe no trial at all. There maybe a trial and a jury will decide if the person is not guilty by the reason of insanity.... but if they are found to be so crazy they could not understand what they were doing, the JUST choice is to find them not guilty. We should not criminalize true mental illness like schizophrenia


So your solution is to just set them free?

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 6:31:51 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Both he and Gifford worshipped at the same synagogue. 


There is ample evidence that she worshipped at a synagogue, and none that he did.  Just because he has Judaism in his lineage....

back on topic... if there had been any other result, I would have bee shocked.  He's completely nuts and that's his best defense.



The point is that they knew eachother.




PaHunk, what are you talking about? Nut boy had one of those voodoo alters in his back yard!

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 6:36:00 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		^- nope.   Gifford and the shooter knew each other. 

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 6:41:21 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		There is NO, repeat NO, evidence that they knew each other hunk, stop with your conspiracy bullshit.

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 6:42:12 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I went to the same high school for four years, and I never knew everyone in my graduating class.

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 6:45:08 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There is NO, repeat NO, evidence that they knew each other hunk, stop with your conspiracy bullshit.


Yes they did.

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:04:23 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You would have to make a plea of not guilty by the reason of insanity, and if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge agrees, there maybe no trial at all. There maybe a trial and a jury will decide if the person is not guilty by the reason of insanity.... but if they are found to be so crazy they could not understand what they were doing, the JUST choice is to find them not guilty. We should not criminalize true mental illness like schizophrenia


So your solution is to just set them free?



Isn't that a false dichotomy? Are you saying there are no other options between setting someone dangerous free, and sending them to prison for a crime they were too whacked out to know they committed?




_____________________________

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:16:13 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		In my opinion there are many options and variations between the two. This is why I support what I stated. It insures that the judicial system will always oversee what happens. In some cases it may mean lifetime treatment and review, whether in-patient, out-patient, combination of the two, or whatever else is determined to be in the best interest of justice, society and the person committing the crime.

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:27:59 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I would agree that there can be many options....

I suppose my response is along the lines of the person is proven to be not only incompetent to stand trial, but incapable of forming criminal intent to commit a crime because of the severity of their illness. A person such as this may never be competent to be tried, they may receive treatment, be found not guilty by reason of insanity, and be held and treated in a hospital.

I have a brother that is mentally ill. He has never hurt anyone physically. He has been put in jail because he has done dumb things, like take the keys out of a cop's car because he thought someone would take them... you know, hold on to them for the cop... the cop was not amused and he was locked up for a couple of weeks.


My brother has been so deluded in the past that he heard voices that told him things, and luckily he would not act on it. He was put on medication that helped him. He still have trouble holding jobs, has refused treatment at times, etc etc etc. It is hard to have a loved one that is this sick, because there is nothing you can do to compel a person into treatment short of hiring an attorney, which I do not have the money for. My brother has been homeless at times, even though he had other options. In the past, if he had committed a violent act I would not have thought him "guilty" because I know him. He is not a violent person. He hasn't a violent bone in his body.

I think we need to treat the mentally ill much differently than we do. It would prevent things like the Giffords shooting if family and friends could intervene for a loved one more quickly. Many people knew this kid was sick, and no one could help him.

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:31:21 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I dont think the shooter should be walking around- in public or even out patient.   

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RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:33:54 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I dont think the shooter should be walking around- in public or even out patient.   



How about in a hospital for the criminally insane... which is the usual option

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:53:02 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

There is NO, repeat NO, evidence that they knew each other hunk, stop with your conspiracy bullshit.


Yes they did.



Prove it

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 7:54:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		They knew each other. 

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:09:49 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

They knew each other. 



As I suspected, you are once more long on talk, short on facts.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:27:41 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

You would have to make a plea of not guilty by the reason of insanity, and if the prosecutor agrees, and the judge agrees, there maybe no trial at all. There maybe a trial and a jury will decide if the person is not guilty by the reason of insanity.... but if they are found to be so crazy they could not understand what they were doing, the JUST choice is to find them not guilty. We should not criminalize true mental illness like schizophrenia


So your solution is to just set them free?



Isn't that a false dichotomy? Are you saying there are no other options between setting someone dangerous free, and sending them to prison for a crime they were too whacked out to know they committed?





No, I was trying to understand your POV.

If he isnt sane enough to stand trial, he isnt sane enough to be released into society. So he will be held in custody until he is sane enough... if ever.

At which time, he will go before a Judge. We all know schizophrenics can be managed with medication. We all also know they tend to be extremely non compliant once they are medication managed.

His trial will basically consist of... did he do it. Yes, by reasons of insanity. At which time, if that is the verdict, he will be held once again.

No one said he would ever go to prison. He will go to a state hospital for the criminally insane. Pretty much every state has one.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=UTF-8&fr=crmas&p=state+hospital+for+the+criminally+insane





_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:31:43 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe on something like this, we should try him anyway, and execute him. It might be the more merciful thing. What happens if he does get his meds balanced out well enough to really understand what he did, and then has to live with it?

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:35:22 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Maybe on something like this, we should try him anyway, and execute him. It might be the more merciful thing. What happens if he does get his meds balanced out well enough to really understand what he did, and then has to live with it?



Yeah, just treat human beings like rabid dogs

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:41:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Didnt Laughner?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:43:56 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		The mentally ill in this country have a rough lot. People do not see the brain as an organ that can become diseased, like lungs, or the heart, or the liver. Our people are just barbaric

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Judge: Ariz. shooting suspect mentally incompetent - 5/25/2011 8:49:26 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		This isnt like a tumor you can cut out and the patient is all better. This is a life long illness. No one around him noticed he was getting worse? That pretty much sums up why he wont be living in society anymore.

He will be better off in a hospital with professionals who can take care of him and manage his symptoms.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 40
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