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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: Charnegui

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

we do not have titles in the US.   None.   

No, your aristocracy is based on wealth, political influence and fame instead.

In wich "old money" is the nearest you have to aristocracy. Something like the Kennedy's.
I'd like to know how these families are influencing American politics and society.....

What is irritating me, is the media making DSK look guilty, before he's stands trial.

Actually, I'm a limey as well.
I just get a bit fed of hunky's constant: "we don't have a class system, all Americans are equal" blather. He's a nice guy, and it's rather touching that he's willing to believe that in the face of a lot of evidence to the contrary, but it's not a very convincing claim outside of a Horatio Alger novel. If anything, the American class system is even more entrenched and inflexible than ours is, which is no mean feat. It's just based on money, influence and notoriety rather than somebody's father having a seat in the House of Lords.

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

We have a Constitution.   You don't.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The whole thing kinda makes me proud to be an American, where we evidently believe more in equal justice than in Europe.

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ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

We have a Constitution.   You don't.

But we have a Grundgesetz.

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ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

We have a Constitution.   You don't.

But we have a Grundgesetz.

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from: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2009/01/07/age-of-criminal-responsibility-could-be-raised-from-eight-to-12-86908-21021838/

Age of criminal responsibility could be raised from eight to 12
Jan 7 2009 By Magnus Gardham

MINISTERS are considering raising the age of criminal responsibility from eight to 12, it emerged yesterday.

The move would mean primary school pupils could no longer face prosecution if they broke the law.

Scotland is under pressure from the United Nations to raise the age.

The UN Committee on the Rights of the Child want all countries to stop prosecuting children younger than 14.

Last year, Lord Advocate Elish Angiolini told MSPs that eight was too young for a child to be taken before the criminal courts. No final decision has been taken on the move, government sources said yesterday.

A spokesman said: "Ministers have made clear our commitment to the UNCRC and to promoting and supporting the rights of all children in Scotland.

"As the cabinet secretaries for education and justice confirmed to MSPs in November, we are considering this issue.

"Together with the views of stakeholders, these will help inform our thinking on any changes to legislation."

It is understood 12 is being considered as a new age of criminal responsibility.

Labour said they would look at proposals on lowering the age "constructively".

Scotland has one of the lowest ages of criminal responsibility in Europe.

In England - where ministers are also under pressure to make a change - it is 10.

The age is 13 in France, 14 in Germany and Italy, 15 in Denmark and 16 in Spain.

However, figures show nearly 5000 crimes are committed by eight-to 11-year-olds in Scotland each year.

And last year, 130 kids under the age of eight, including a number of three-year-old vandals, were recorded for committing crimes.

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Grundgesetz

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

As a matter of fact, we do.
(Wiki's description, for all the fucking good it'll do.)

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

So true in the UK and Europe babies are created specifically to occupy different tiers in society. At the bottom of soiciety are simple labor volk happy but too stupid to be otherwise.

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

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Grundgesetz

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

As a matter of fact, we do.
(Wiki's description, for all the fucking good it'll do.)

All men are not created equal over there-  unlike in the US where all men are created equal- and it is documented by our constitution.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The whole thing kinda makes me proud to be an American, where we evidently believe more in equal justice than in Europe.

Pity we don't seem to believe that people are innocent until proven guilty anymore.

K.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The whole thing kinda makes me proud to be an American, where we evidently believe more in equal justice than in Europe.

Pity we don't seem to believe that people are innocent until proven guilty anymore.

K.

That is not what presumption of innocence means.

It means that a jury has not yet been persuaded of DSK's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, so he cannot lawfully be punished. It does NOT mean that the rest of us, inside or outside the legal system, are required to pretend that the he's completely innocent of any crime whatsoever, and that the charges against him are false or fabricated.

In fact, he's already been arraigned. In other words, the legal system has made a preliminary determination that it's NOT terribly likely that DSK is an innocent victim of circumstance. Or put another way, if any significant percentage of the people sitting in Rikers for months on end awaiting trial are, in reality, completely and totally innocent of any crime whatsoever, there's something really, really wrong with our legal system.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

Interesting points but not sure I completely agree with that. In the eyes of the law rather than personal opinion someone must be either guilty or innocent. There can't be any grey area or centre ground of probable guilt but there was insufficient evidence to prove it. Thought arraignment just set formal proceedings in place cept in exceptional circumstance.

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ORIGINAL: hlen5
He first denies the sex at all and then says she wanted it. Tell me how the previous sentence is any different from your run of the mill rapist?

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

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Grundgesetz

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

As a matter of fact, we do.
(Wiki's description, for all the fucking good it'll do.)

All men are not created equal over there-  unlike in the US where all men are created equal- and it is documented by our constitution.

I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but they're not created equal in your country, either. Sorry.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle
In terms of the wider question as to if you believe the potential exists for anyone to succeed: yes it does.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle

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ORIGINAL: hlen5
He first denies the sex at all and then says she wanted it. Tell me how the previous sentence is any different from your run of the mill rapist?

At first he was trying to save his reputation and career and now he is trying to retain his freedom. I don't find it that odd that people initially will admit to nothing (especially people in high ranking positions) and then they slowly change their story.

This change of story doesn't really prove guilt, it only proves that he was trying the handle to whole matter another way (deny it to the media and secretly pay her off). It would be just as wrong for people not aware of the actual evidence to present the picture that she knew he was wealthy, had sex with him, tried to extort money from him before going into hiding.

There will not be many facts in this case it'll come down to how convincing they both are in what they say or perhaps what other independent witnesses, that dealt with the immediate aftermath, say.