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RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 10:39:26 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
Interesting points but not sure I completely agree with that. In the eyes of the law rather than personal opinion someone must be either guilty or innocent. There can't be any grey area or centre ground of probable guilt but there was insufficient evidence to prove it. Thought arraignment just set formal proceedings in place cept in exceptional circumstance.

No.

He has been accused. He has been informed of the accusation. Steps have been taken to make sure that he shows up for the trial to determine innocence or guilt.

Presumption of innocence means that "The Law" does not just shoot him outright.

You should really look up the terms 'arraignment' and 'trial'.

Aylee I'm familiar with the terms. Yeah he has been accused but an arraignment is just calling a person to answer charges http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arraignment - in other words the formal charging of a person for trial. Of course the authorities have to have some reason to feel he is guilty but a trial going forward with the arraignment doesn't imply he or anyone else is pretty much guilty as you seemed to suggest in post 52. In law anyone is either 100% guilty or not guilty cept while in a sorta legal limbo during a trial. Its no accident this is the wording that juries use.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 11:10:52 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		No one seems to have mentioned incarceration (imprisonment) rates when comparing different judicial systems. To my mind, this rate says a lot about the justice systems, and crime levels of various countries.

Wiki has an interesting discussion and a revealing graphic here. One interesting feature is that the countries with the lowest rates of incarceration are India and Central Africa. Western Europe Australia Japan China Canada are in the lower range while the US and Russia have far more prisoners than any where else.

No doubt the reasons for this uneven distribution are complex.



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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 11:28:14 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Firstly: they aren't created, unless you think some random sperm meeting some random egg is the act of creation? Let me get a few random nuts and bolts, I'll throw them into a bucket and see if a supercomputer comes out.

Secondly: They aren't at any stage equal, if they were equal everyone would have the same haircut and nobody would face persecution because of it.

In terms of the wider question as to if you believe the potential exists for anyone to succeed: yes it does.



Sorry but the Constitution trumps your post.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 11:32:43 AM   
FullCircle


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Status: offline 		In a game of top trumps the stealth bomber beats the constitution. I think you'll find that the constitution is beaten in every capacity as it has no measurable attributes such as CC or Wingspan.

So my friend nur nur as they say!

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 12:00:42 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

There are the few exceptions where people from a challenging background create a much better life for themselves but in the majority of cases you'd be right to be pessimistic because working backwards from outcomes you only have opportunities, education and background.

Without education and background, you don't have opportunities either. Not any that you can take advantage of to better yourself, at least.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 12:54:28 PM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
I have a question for those who are offended by his "perp walk" (If there's anyone reading the boards that was offended). Would any rape suspect in France have been subjected to a perp walk, or was it just because he's powerful that it was so offensive?


I am not sure that offended is the right word, more like bewildered.  The whole "perp-walk" thing is just completely alien to us.
That has absolutely nothing to do with him being prominent, and all to do with a stronger protection of personality rights. Something like that would simply be unthinkable here, be it Joe Schmoe or the Pope.
France is even stricter in that regard, if I am informed right.


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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 12:55:43 PM   
calamitysandra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

All men are not created equal over there-  unlike in the US where all men are created equal- and it is documented by our constitution.



Take a look at Artikel 3 of the Grundgesetzt then:

http://dejure.org/gesetze/GG/3.html


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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 1:01:26 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		You're not going to get anywhere with that: all Americans are equal and everywhere else is a feudal autocracy. Alex said so, so obviously any facts that can be found to suggest otherwise are nonsense to hunky.

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 1:09:05 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		America is the shining city on a hill.

Where a housekeeper and a banker are equal.   Where all men are created equal.


You sorta have the Magna Carter-  but even that is not as good as the Constitution.  ...and I know yous dont like it- otherwise you would not have burned down the White House.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 1:16:01 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
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Status: offline 		The constitution didn't really stop slavery so please shut your self-righteous cake hole.

Written text's do no change things or give people rights, people's attitudes do.

Thankyou.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/28/2011 1:24:44 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 1:18:14 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Where a housekeeper and a banker are equal.

Tell that to Hattie Carroll.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 1:31:41 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I am really pleased that we are treating this as equals under the law.


1.  we are doing so.
2. it is the right thing to do.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 2:03:12 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You're not treated as equals under the law when you have a legal system that works by appealing cases until either the prosecution or defense runs out of money.
That gives those who are loaded a slight advantage over everybody else, you'll find.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 2:17:33 PM   
FullCircle


Posts: 5713
Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		Having said that...where do you stand on super rich injunctions?

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 2:19:50 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I try not to: I'll end up in court if I even mention them...




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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 3:50:20 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

All men are not created equal over there-  unlike in the US where all men are created equal- and it is documented by our constitution.



Take a look at Artikel 3 of the Grundgesetzt then:

http://dejure.org/gesetze/GG/3.html



her pahunk...just for you...the translation of sandra's reference here

or to make it even easier for you the direct quote out of it for you, article 3 of basic rights in Germany

quote:

Article 3 [Equality before the law]
(1) All persons shall be equal before the law.

(2) Men and women shall have equal rights. The state shall promote the actual implementation of equal rights for women and men and take steps to eliminate disadvantages that now exist.

(3) No person shall be favored or disfavored because of sex, parentage, race, language, homeland and origin, faith, or religious or political opinions. No person shall be disfavored because of disability.



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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/28/2011 7:14:22 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		This is one time that I am proud of the US - as we live up to a higher standard. We do not have titles here.  All men are created equal.   (maybe that is the case elsewhere, but we invented it)

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/29/2011 5:14:30 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		That'll be news to that Jewish social reformer the Romans nailed to a tree in the holy land back in 33AD.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/29/2011 6:47:45 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
This is one time that I am proud of the US - as we live up to a higher standard. We do not have titles here.  All men are created equal.   (maybe that is the case elsewhere, but we invented it)

PA, a number of 18th century euro thinkers pretty much invented the idea to which da US of A wuz a beneficiary.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: A question for Europeans about DSK. - 5/29/2011 8:11:05 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Presumably he doesn't see executing aristocrats as in any way opposing the feudal system. He can be funny like that...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to WantsOfTheFlesh)
Profile   Post #: 80
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