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Representative? - 5/28/2011 4:47:37 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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Inspired by Heather's thread, where she said:

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

I do realize that the CM boards aren't really definitive, but...<snip>...I think there's a pretty broad group that post here.>


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3696342

Which got me thinking, and rather than derailing her thread I'm starting a new one.

I was going to ask 'how representative of the people in the scene do you think the CM boards are?', but then it occurred to me that a) there are plenty of people who aren't scenesters who will have valuable things to say, and b) I've somehow become the sort of person who automatically assumes that the scene is the be all and end all, and that is not good, so I'll rephrase:

How representative of the people who you've come across in your experience of BDSM do you think the CM boards are?

---

For me, a few things spring to mind:

- CM is light on casual players. Right now I'm pretty heavily involved in my local scene, with all the vaguely incestuous everyone's-played-with-everyone vibes that come with that - but even before that I was very much a 'little black book' kind of a girl, and I had the loose, casual connections that went with that. CM's much more geared to closed relationships and commitment.

- CM is seriously heteronormative. Oh sure, us queers are dotted about () but the majority of you guys are straight. All the women (obviously) and most of the men I've been involved with have been at least bisexual, and my corner of the London scene's pretty bi-normative; monosexuals of either gender are the exception rather than the rule.

- I'm probably going to regret saying this one, but: y'all ain't that keen on people with gender issues. In the UK scene there's a biiiiiiiiiiiig crossover in subcultures - events are teeming with T-girls (so to speak!) But the crowd here definitely goes all conservative whenever a thread about gender issues comes up. I'm often shocked at some of the things people I thought I knew better come out with that are just considered...impolitic, maybe, on my scene. Political correctness on the issue of self-determination; we are big on it in ways you just don't seem to be.

- People think about titles a lot on CM. With most people I've first come across IRL rather than on the internet I could give you an inclination of top/bottom/switch. Beyond that? No idea - I think of them in terms of how they react to me, not what they call themselves. Here people distinguish between Top/Dom/me/Mistress/Master/Sadist/LordHighPoobah/&c&c. And then they get cross if you get it wrong. I've never seen that in real life (although I do wonder if that's partly because the UK doesn't have a leather scene).

- CM can be kind of anti-pro. I'm pretty fond of most of the ones I know. So are lots of people. They're often articulate and funny, and they take irritating men off my case. I call that a win.

Those are a few things that jumped out at me. Anyone have any others? Agree with me? Disagree vehemently (but politely, obviously, because nobody's ever rude on CM at all )? I'd be interested to see what people think - especially people who aren't scenesters - how does CM match up to the partners, friends and acquaintances you've had?

----

<This may ultimately belong in Off Topic, in which case I'm sure the mods will move it, but as it's about people's real life BDSM experiences I'm putting it here.>

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 4:56:28 PM   
RedMagic1


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Two things:

1. The lineage of kinky message boards is from IRC and chat rooms in general. You had to be able to tell from a screen name if the person was male, female, dom, sub, owned or unowned. Otherwise you might experience a fapping disaster. So clear delineation was essential.

2. Cm is USA based. That alone explains the lack of comprehension of gender fluidity.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:07:13 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

2. Cm is USA based. That alone explains the lack of comprehension of gender fluidity.

Does it?

Thinking about it, I've picked up my 'keep calm, it's nothing to worry about or even particularly pay attention to' attitude from the people around me, but most of the information and learning resources on the subject that I've come across have been American. So I don't know.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:13:56 PM   
PeonForHer


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Yep, I can't disagree with that list, VC. I've met more people who are happy to be just eclectically kinky, and casually so, in RT. Also, vanillas move in and out of kinksters' scenes, without people particularly seeming to care. Gender is far less of an issue: even mainly-hetero people will try something out with the same sex. (As have I.) And I also get the impression that things don't get particularly 'sexual' at clubs the other side of the pond. But that last could have a lot to do with the particular sorts of club I (used to) go to.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:15:47 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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I have known lots of transgendered folk ver the years, but the idea of non-binary gender fluidity is new to me, and I am working on it. Bear in mind, I don't CARE what gender a person is--I just get cranky when I am expected to INTUIT that gender, and figure out just which set of invented pronouns they want to be addressed by. ALL that new learning comes from Fet, not here.

CM doesn't really resemble "real life", less so now than ever. The number of folks with zero experience who have NO intention of getting any is large. The porn driven HNG's have a lot of influence. The level of utter, intense, appalling misogyny is like nothing I have encountered anywhere.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:18:51 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Thinking about it, I've picked up my 'keep calm, it's nothing to worry about or even particularly pay attention to' attitude from the people around me, but most of the information and learning resources on the subject that I've come across have been American. So I don't know.


Often works that way, VC: people are more likely to put on their thinking (and research) caps if something's troubling them. Some of the most productive progressive thinking has come from enclaves within the most conservative places and during the most conservative periods. All in Hegel, dontchaknow.


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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:23:28 PM   
RedMagic1


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The USA has arguably the oldest and best organized gay rights movement in the world. It also has arguably the best organized, best funded movement for social conservatism in the world. And the first is mainstream only in a handful of major cities (where plenty of munches exist) while the second predominates in areas where there are fewer opportunities to meet kinksters in real life.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:25:10 PM   
RedMagic1


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LadyH, you are clearly depressed by that thread. I'm sorry. As a devil's advocate though, I have two words for you: stepford kajira.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:27:18 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

LadyH, you are clearly depressed by that thread. I'm sorry. As a devil's advocate though, I have two words for you: stepford kajira.

And you think that'll make her feel better?

I get what you and Peon are saying, though.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:32:48 PM   
PeonForHer


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Not that I want to compare the US *too* closely to Italy under the Borgias, but:

"You know what the fellow said – in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace – and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Orson Welles as Harry Lime, in *The Third Man* And I can do his voice, too, natch.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:35:07 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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If they 'produced' the Renaissance in Italy, then how come it's got a French name?

Huh?

HUH?!



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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:36:30 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
The level of utter, intense, appalling misogyny is like nothing I have encountered anywhere.


Hey, Lady Hib. Your 'Fuck the lot of 'em!' engines need their batteries recharged! And I also prescribe a giant virtual hug and slobber from myself.


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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:37:55 PM   
PeonForHer


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I don't frigging know. Take it up with Orson Welles. Feckenell, you picky woman. Grrr!

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:39:07 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I don't frigging know. Take it up with Orson Welles. Feckenell, you picky woman. Grrr!

Shut up and go back to the doggy style thread. Like, now.




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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:39:49 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

LadyH, you are clearly depressed by that thread. I'm sorry. As a devil's advocate though, I have two words for you: stepford kajira.


Um. You know I used that phrase in response to a thread elsewhere, right? :)

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:41:36 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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And enough mocking me with the slobber!

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:44:09 PM   
RedMagic1


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The French historian Jules Michelet was the first to use it, in the mid 1800s, to describe the time period. Many modern historians want to abandon the term, interestingly enough.

< Message edited by RedMagic1 -- 5/28/2011 5:45:02 PM >


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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:45:32 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Those pesky reconstructionists!

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:48:07 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

LadyH, you are clearly depressed by that thread. I'm sorry. As a devil's advocate though, I have two words for you: stepford kajira.


Um. You know I used that phrase in response to a thread elsewhere, right? :)

Yeah. I've read the piece in question. Some of the most misogynistic people in the world are female. That concerns me more than the uber masters tbh. I don't think about big bad one true way male doms at all.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:48:31 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

And enough mocking me with the slobber!


Oh, I never mock with the slobber. My slobbering's done in earnest, every time.

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