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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:53:32 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
How representative of the people who you've come across in your experience of BDSM do you think the CM boards are?



Personally, I think the CM boards only encompass a small percentage of real life BDSM. I see a heavy influence of Dominance and submission in the boards but much less Bondage and Discipline. If sub or a kinkster express his/her desire for certain type of bondage or technique, that usually does not fly over well on the boards here. I am not talking the HNG, those are on ever board, and they seem to come in go in bunches. Its just point of view about your question. I see a lot of "a submissive does not have the right to choose what the Domme does to him". I guess what I am saying is I do not see a whole lot of posts for the tops and bottoms that are B&D oriented versus the DS side of things.

Personally I visit the boards to share information, and I am always looking to here on the different points of view. Like to know peoples mindset, or better said I like to understand what drives their choice, likes, dislikes.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:55:10 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Hmph. I see no flight itinerary. So you will slobber on me in absentia, via VC?

RedMagic, I agree, the women who have no self acceptance disturb me far more than the men who exploit and deride them. We have truly made very little progress. But that's a whole other topic...

About clubs: folks really wander into scenes in the UK? And don't wind up eating a singletail? Amazing.

Titles: I am very guilty of the semantic game, but as a Leather person, I do have a somewhat different spin. I accept all kinksters, and casual players? Yay! I get ultracranky when someone casually stomps on the "lifestyle" I follow.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 5:58:40 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I don't frigging know. Take it up with Orson Welles. Feckenell, you picky woman. Grrr!

Shut up and go back to the doggy style thread. Like, now.





Phooey. I think I'll rejoin a different thread and talk to my new friend, instead.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 6:05:01 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I would think that just the name here Collar Me would clue people in that it was devised not for casual players but for relationships. You don't collar someone you negotiate to scene with for an hour.

I do find a larger trend toward casual play over at fet, where committed relationships seem to be uncommon if it isn't a group aimed at that.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 6:05:58 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

- I'm probably going to regret saying this one, but: y'all ain't that keen on people with gender issues. In the UK scene there's a biiiiiiiiiiiig crossover in subcultures - events are teeming with T-girls (so to speak!) But the crowd here definitely goes all conservative whenever a thread about gender issues comes up. I'm often shocked at some of the things people I thought I knew better come out with that are just considered...impolitic, maybe, on my scene. Political correctness on the issue of self-determination; we are big on it in ways you just don't seem to be.




quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

The USA has arguably the oldest and best organized gay rights movement in the world. It also has arguably the best organized, best funded movement for social conservatism in the world. And the first is mainstream only in a handful of major cities (where plenty of munches exist) while the second predominates in areas where there are fewer opportunities to meet kinksters in real life.



RedMagic1,
While the leather movement originated in the USA in the WWII era, the US might have the largest but certainly not the most accepted.

Luckily I get to travel globally for my job. I regularly visit, Germany, England, Austria, Poland, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Holland, Czech Republic and a few other countries. I can easily say from my expeirences the gay community is much more accepted outside of the USA. I am with VC on this one as I think the US is very harsh towards the gays in the US when compared to other countries.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 6:07:21 PM   
Tantriqu


Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
I don't think about big bad one true way male doms at all.

Me neither, unless the 'hide' button ain't workin', hohoho.
However, there is a world of difference between misogynistic females, who we tend to think of in the grips of stockholm syndrome rather than contributing to rape threads, or your comment, which is patronising to a lot of our experience and specifically to what LadyH had just stated, compared to the sociopathic venom that is splashed across the boards like demon jism, leaving hissing burns and the funk of brimstone in its wake. We wield extinguishers, but it's exhausting and literally draining.
Thank the gods for the blazing contrast of a few good e-men [waves across pond at Peon], which help balance out the metric tonnage of trolls.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 6:13:10 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Mummyman, I must not be communicating well, because what you just said is exactly my point about why the cm boards are so heteronormative.

Tantriqu, if you want to service top trolls, that is your kink and you are welcome to it. It's not mine. When I want to address gender inequities, I volunteer time in real life.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 6:20:21 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

. . . . or your comment, which is patronising to a lot of our experience and specifically to what LadyH had just stated . . . .


We must be interpreting quite differently - I didn't read Red's comment that way at all . . . .


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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 6:23:43 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Red didn't mean it to be patronising, he was pointing out that men are not the only misogynists.

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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 7:02:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

People think about titles a lot on CM. With most people I've first come across IRL rather than on the internet I could give you an inclination of top/bottom/switch. Beyond that? No idea - I think of them in terms of how they react to me, not what they call themselves. Here people distinguish between Top/Dom/me/Mistress/Master/Sadist/LordHighPoobah/&c&c. And then they get cross if you get it wrong. I've never seen that in real life (although I do wonder if that's partly because the UK doesn't have a leather scene).



This was my experience.. identity as masochist, top, bottom, etc... not about relational identity in real life.



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RE: Representative? - 5/28/2011 11:02:29 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
Which got me thinking, and rather than derailing her thread I'm starting a new one.

I was going to ask 'how representative of the people in the scene do you think the CM boards are?', but then it occurred to me that a) there are plenty of people who aren't scenesters who will have valuable things to say, and b) I've somehow become the sort of person who automatically assumes that the scene is the be all and end all, and that is not good, so I'll rephrase:

How representative of the people who you've come across in your experience of BDSM do you think the CM boards are?

---

For me, a few things spring to mind:

- CM is light on casual players. Right now I'm pretty heavily involved in my local scene, with all the vaguely incestuous everyone's-played-with-everyone vibes that come with that - but even before that I was very much a 'little black book' kind of a girl, and I had the loose, casual connections that went with that. CM's much more geared to closed relationships and commitment.

Agreed.  If the top/bottom option were even available here, I couldn't say how many folks would be using it.  I see far more casual players at clubs and munch groups.

quote:

- CM is seriously heteronormative. Oh sure, us queers are dotted about () but the majority of you guys are straight. All the women (obviously) and most of the men I've been involved with have been at least bisexual, and my corner of the London scene's pretty bi-normative; monosexuals of either gender are the exception rather than the rule.

On this one I disagree.  I often wonder if I'm one of the few zeros on the Kinsey scale around here.  A good number of women are bi-sexual, hetero-flexible, or whatever the term is of the day.  Males are less likely to come forward around here, especially on the forums, but they are here.

quote:

- I'm probably going to regret saying this one, but: y'all ain't that keen on people with gender issues. In the UK scene there's a biiiiiiiiiiiig crossover in subcultures - events are teeming with T-girls (so to speak!) But the crowd here definitely goes all conservative whenever a thread about gender issues comes up. I'm often shocked at some of the things people I thought I knew better come out with that are just considered...impolitic, maybe, on my scene. Political correctness on the issue of self-determination; we are big on it in ways you just don't seem to be.

In My opinion, the boards aren't a good example for this.  I'm going to go back to the reasoning that the site is more relationship oriented than what you'd be seeing in the clubs here.  It did take a while, but trans women are welcome at most "female only" events that I see advertised.  (Not always true for cross dressers, but that's a different subject.)  You wouldn't see anybody in a club here telling someone "you're not really a woman" like you do on the boards.

quote:

- People think about titles a lot on CM. With most people I've first come across IRL rather than on the internet I could give you an inclination of top/bottom/switch. Beyond that? No idea - I think of them in terms of how they react to me, not what they call themselves. Here people distinguish between Top/Dom/me/Mistress/Master/Sadist/LordHighPoobah/&c&c. And then they get cross if you get it wrong. I've never seen that in real life (although I do wonder if that's partly because the UK doesn't have a leather scene).

Leather scene, yes, you'll see that here.  General BDSM, not so much.

quote:

- CM can be kind of anti-pro. I'm pretty fond of most of the ones I know. So are lots of people. They're often articulate and funny, and they take irritating men off my case. I call that a win.

Yes and no.  The difference is that the pros that you see in the community are participating in the scene to some degree.  They get respected because their profession is a business that they are skilled in.  If you watch the boards, it's pretty clear to see which pros (or past pros) are respected and which ones are not. 

quote:

Those are a few things that jumped out at me. Anyone have any others? Agree with me? Disagree vehemently (but politely, obviously, because nobody's ever rude on CM at all )? I'd be interested to see what people think - especially people who aren't scenesters - how does CM match up to the partners, friends and acquaintances you've had?

The one that I would add is that there are some things you see around this place that would never go over at a munch or a play party.  If some of the wanker type threads were the way a guy would speak to a woman, the other men in the room would toss them on their ear.  Yes, in My happy little world, I sometimes think to Myself just how much fun some dude is going to have walking into a munch acting the same way he does here.  If I ever get to see it, I'll probably laugh My ass off.

----

<This may ultimately belong in Off Topic, in which case I'm sure the mods will move it, but as it's about people's real life BDSM experiences I'm putting it here.>


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RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 1:09:47 AM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
- CM is seriously heteronormative. Oh sure, us queers are dotted about () but the majority of you guys are straight. All the women (obviously) and most of the men I've been involved with have been at least bisexual, and my corner of the London scene's pretty bi-normative; monosexuals of either gender are the exception rather than the rule.

- I'm probably going to regret saying this one, but: y'all ain't that keen on people with gender issues. In the UK scene there's a biiiiiiiiiiiig crossover in subcultures - events are teeming with T-girls (so to speak!) But the crowd here definitely goes all conservative whenever a thread about gender issues comes up. I'm often shocked at some of the things people I thought I knew better come out with that are just considered...impolitic, maybe, on my scene. Political correctness on the issue of self-determination; we are big on it in ways you just don't seem to be.


Count me in with the agree crowd. Coming from mainly UK message boards, and then trying to navigate your way through CM is kind of scary, there's so much sexism, homophobia and hetereonormativity. I too am shocked by some of the things people say on here. However, I would have to disagree that in London "monosexuals... are the exception rather than the rule" There are still plenty of m&f couples on the scene, in London and the rest of the UK. But I do agree that parties tend to be 'queer' (i.e. kinky people of all persuasions) rather than conservative.

I would also say that there is a strong D/s slant to the boards, rather than s&m or b&d. And within that, there is a strong M/s contingent. I don't see many stand alone masochists, people into bondage, or folks who just like to be kinky in the bedroom.

But then some of this has always been representative of the American scene. I remember years ago being told that American Doms were 'stricter' than UK Doms, so this has been a known difference for at least 10 years.

owned xxx

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RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 2:11:51 AM   
OwnedFemaleFlesh


Posts: 182
Joined: 4/9/2011
Status: offline 		Oh, and just to add - I have never heard the expression 'Alpha Male' used so much in my life! There seems to be an almost overwhelming sociobiological trend on CM, whereas in the UK we tend to be more social constructionists. Which is probably why the UK scene is more "keen on people with gender issues".

owned xxx

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RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 2:29:43 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

On this one I disagree.  I often wonder if I'm one of the few zeros on the Kinsey scale around here.  A good number of women are bi-sexual, hetero-flexible, or whatever the term is of the day.  Males are less likely to come forward around here, especially on the forums, but they are here.

Some of the women are bisexual, but most are either involved with or seeking men. And some of the downright unpleasant things I've seen said about bisexual men here are...not worth bringing up again. And doesn't the fact that they're around but not willing to come forward speak volumes?

quote:



In My opinion, the boards aren't a good example for this.  I'm going to go back to the reasoning that the site is more relationship oriented than what you'd be seeing in the clubs here.  It did take a while, but trans women are welcome at most "female only" events that I see advertised.  (Not always true for cross dressers, but that's a different subject.)  You wouldn't see anybody in a club here telling someone "you're not really a woman" like you do on the boards.

I did kind of wonder if that might be the case. Thanks for the perspective.

quote:


Yes and no.  The difference is that the pros that you see in the community are participating in the scene to some degree.  They get respected because their profession is a business that they are skilled in.  If you watch the boards, it's pretty clear to see which pros (or past pros) are respected and which ones are not. 

But even with the ones who are respected (who tend to be ex- rather than current, with the exception of LNT) they tend to be respected by the women, sure, but there's still this...undercurrent, maybe? Like the men are still thinking 'prostitute prostitute prostitute' while they type.


quote:



The one that I would add is that there are some things you see around this place that would never go over at a munch or a play party.  If some of the wanker type threads were the way a guy would speak to a woman, the other men in the room would toss them on their ear.  Yes, in My happy little world, I sometimes think to Myself just how much fun some dude is going to have walking into a munch acting the same way he does here.  If I ever get to see it, I'll probably laugh My ass off.

I'm with you on that one! Although I have seen some monumentally stupid behaviour in person....

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RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 2:33:36 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

If some of the wanker type threads were the way a guy would speak to a woman, the other men in the room would toss them on their ear.


I do believe that has happened recently - Roch, peon, Otter... yep... the CM Bouncer Triumverate.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 2:41:03 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

However, I would have to disagree that in London "monosexuals... are the exception rather than the rule" There are still plenty of m&f couples on the scene, in London and the rest of the UK. But I do agree that parties tend to be 'queer' (i.e. kinky people of all persuasions) rather than conservative.

I hear you about being shocked by the conservatism! And I did say 'my little corner' of the scene - in my network of friends, you can count the exclusively straight women on not very many fingers and the exclusively straight men on only slightly more fingers (we did count, but I forget the exact numbers). The scene as a whole is straighter, sure, but my little crowd of U35-ers are definitely bi-normative.

quote:


I would also say that there is a strong D/s slant to the boards, rather than s&m or b&d. And within that, there is a strong M/s contingent. I don't see many stand alone masochists, people into bondage, or folks who just like to be kinky in the bedroom.

That echoes what mummyman said - but now I'm thinking about what DesFIP said; the site's called CollarMe, not TieMeUpForKicks, so I wonder if maybe that's fair enough.

quote:


But then some of this has always been representative of the American scene. I remember years ago being told that American Doms were 'stricter' than UK Doms, so this has been a known difference for at least 10 years.

Ooooooh, I smell a comparative study coming on! I wonder how the person who told you came to that conclusion, and if some hapless volunteer could replicate it - any takers?

I also reckon you've got something with the differing tendencies to sociobiology/social constructionism across the pond. We definitely give constructs like 'alpha male' less weight over here. I've never heard a Brit resort to 'but that's how the seahorses do it!' to shore up their argument...

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RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 6:20:30 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

how does CM match up to the partners, friends and acquaintances you've had?


As a whole, when you include all the wankers, whiners, and trolls, it bears no resemblance to real life BDSM communities at all. But where else are those types going to go? I seriously doubt the majority of them have the social skills to attend a munch.

I find CM to be far more homophobic, anti TV and CD, pro gender superiority (both male and female) and in general far less inclusive than real life groups. I agree, the alpha males abound. The number of clueless prodommes is just humorous at this point.

But when you separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak, their are some wonderful people here with very interesting perspectives who are willing to give their time and attention to those who need help and information and advice. Many share humorous pictures or videos, great music and film, informative news articles, and so much more. In that way at least, the CM message board does function as a BDSM community.

Yes, we have some lively discussions and don't always agree. When you don't state things clearly or make sweeping generalizations, people call you on your BS. Personally, that's what I like about this site. I get to be exposed to viewpoints entirely different from my own, w/o the need to respond immediately. I can take the time to ponder my reply. At least once or twice a week I run across something that actually makes me think, that causes me to reevaluate my own philosophy or way of doing things.

I'm of an age where it's far too easy to allow my thoughts to be set into stone. I don't want that. I am a far better person for having the continued opportunity for self reflection that is necessary for any human being who is (and always will be) a work in progress.


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RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 6:26:15 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Here in Iowa....we really do not have a 'scene' that intrigues me enough to spend time visiting. There is a BDSM group in Iowa City that is A. primarily hetro couples B. Primarily male dominant female submissive and C. also heavily involved in Renn and other role playing like Star Trek, stuff, which I .....tend to find hysterically funny and don't want to offend people by uncontrolled outbursts of hysterical laughter so I avoid.............said all in one breath sentence.

The non hetro people I know, are almost as 'boxed into' their identity in a conservatively liberal way, as any far right hetro bible thumping M/f group you would find. Too many unspoken PC rules of what people within that gender/sexual identity should be with very little tolerance for anything outside the box. That particular scene is loaded with more land mines that I have the desire to navigate.

What I have found, with most bisexual women, they view a relationship with a woman as more of a 'friends with benefits' type of thing and a relationship with a man as their primary D/s or M/s relationship. aka....the w/w relationship they either want to be the top with the dominant male somewhat involved or not, or the w/w relationship is somewhat more disposable. Therefor I tend to avoid the greater percentile of bi women as I will NOT share with 99.999% of men. And my relationships are not disposable.

I think that CM may be representative of many people, but less so of any rl group of people. If that makes any sense. I have to believe that a lot of people, like myself but for varying reasons, do not have physical groups they get involved with, so gravitate towards this online 'group'.

For myself it's primarily lack of free time, finances to travel, and general give a damn. I've never been a social butterfly, preferring to spend a 3 day weekend working (did a fab photoshoot yesterday morning) and will, weather permitting, spend the bulk of the weekend working on a flagstone patio, fireplace, grill, oven, water feature, project.. G.D. is so happy with my propensity for projects... Not to mention the time and attention my fur babies require. I've constructed my life in such a way that pretty much means I have to be home a lot. Which means either people come to me, on my schedule, or they probably will not get to see me.

Still, if I had to guess.....based upon what I've seen/read here....... I think I would feel more at home with kinksters of the UK than many of the US folks. I prefer the less title oriented, less homophobic, less chest beating, more relaxed, creative, philosophical.....let's just say I really REALLY like the Brits. I enjoy being around people that do not feel disagreement means a contest of wills. I enjoy being around people that are not terrified of being seen as 'less than'. I enjoy being around people that can laugh as much at themselves as anything else.

The US is a young country founded by puritans. I think there is deep psychological roots in puritanistic mindsets, even within our cultural subsets. It is as though we cannot help ourselves. Even in being different, we have to create very rigid structure for being different.

I do believe that there are certainly pockets of people here in the US that go about doing their own thing regardless of whatever we might think they should....via the net. I am sure we have forum participants from the US that fit that criteria. I also don't believe that translates well into this media......often times being drowned out by the more rigid.....uber straight god forbid a homo act be perceived male dominant, cute female situationally bi submissive woman who's man better not EVER consider bottoming or looking sideways at ANY man, typical norm.

I think for many many people here, the naive, perceived, fairytale concept of the gorean mindset, is closer to their own personal belief system than they might want to admit. Not to mention that those that see the gorean philosophy as their reality would not tolerate the bastardization of their beliefs. (if that particular reference is confusing, I will elaborate to avoid offense but....in my mind it's not required on this particular thread) And again, I think that those beliefs go back to our religious, puritanical, roots.

I think I might have gone way off the rails of the topic a time or two but there are my thoughts.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/29/2011 6:31:01 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 7:12:10 AM   
PetiteOralSub


Posts: 81
Joined: 5/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I would think that just the name here Collar Me would clue people in that it was devised not for casual players but for relationships. You don't collar someone you negotiate to scene with for an hour.

I do find a larger trend toward casual play over at fet, where committed relationships seem to be uncommon if it isn't a group aimed at that.



See. my experience has been just the oppsosite.
On collarme I am treated like meat to be fucked tonight,
and have had more contact with kinky vanilla, people with fetishes but not really bdsm,
than Masters really looking for a slave to serve them, beyond tonight that is.
My ongoing rant is that maybe 1 in 1000 males on collarme have a collar to offer that is more than situational,
and should just move themselves over to alt.com or aff.com.

On fetlife, I dont get much "lets fuck tonight" email,
and find there is more community there than here.
but indeed, the crowd is younger, much, much more bi, and much more poly at fet.
but not as hypocritical about the poly-ness and or the lack of desire for a committed relationship.

I think the much more bi is due to the younger crowd,
Women in their 20's today find it fashionable, cute and attention getting,
to kiss each other in public and put on a "bi" air anytime alcohol or drugs are present.
It is apparently de riguer to have a lesbian experience in college now a days, not the case when I was in my 20's.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Representative? - 5/29/2011 8:20:51 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I don't have a lot of experience with "the scene". But I have been in a few different MAST chapters and I do visit people. In general I'd say that what I read here bears little resemblance to what I've seen in RL.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 40
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