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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 4:54:31 AM

popularDemand

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keep your dirty washing in the laundry.

pD

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 4:55:57 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Take a deep breath...

Look, I've been conned before, I possibly will be conned again, in some ways I am a soft touch. But at the end of the day, I'll live with my karma and they live with theirs, and I wouldn't want to have theirs...

A situation happened yesterday, that set me off. I was not expecting it, yet I could not deny it either. I found myself in that dreadful state of Cognitive Dissonance. I found myself trying to make excuses for what I was seeing happen, which contradicted what I was told. In fact it had happened the night before last to. I don't have much tolerance for being lied to anymore. Anyways, this has resulted in the end of a friendship. I'm not the same person they knew a few years ago, and they ain't the same person I knew a few years ago. They made their choice and I've made my own. While I can't make somebody be honest with me, I do have the choice to put an end to things. I can't afford to be soft anymore when it comes to certain things.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 4:57:41 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popularDemand
keep your dirty washing in the laundry.
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Do you have any OxyClean on hand? I've seemed to have run out of it.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 5/29/2011 4:58:05 AM >

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 5:07:41 AM

gungadin09

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My thoughts are with you. I know for myself that when someone betrays my trust, it hits me hard and affects me for a long time. Peace be with you.

pam

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 5:13:23 AM

popularDemand

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bleach, gloves - bin

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 6:35:04 AM

DesFIP

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You fell for a con. You're ashamed of falling for it.
However are you sure they knew it was false? Because sometimes people can convince themselves of all kinds of things. It's delusional thinking and it's a sign of mental illness. And it can develop at any age.

An old college friend who I've kept up with for 35 years lost her mother this year and her father the year before. And her mother was a controlling abusive monster to be frank. But she's been under her thumb her entire life and now that there's a void, she can't cope. She's lost and she's lost in her own head. She'll call and tell me all these unbelievable stories and I know they aren't true. I keep telling her she has to consult a psychiatrist but that isn't giving her the pity she needs. And if she doesn't get help, I don't know what will happen to her.

But the first few phone calls, I fell for her stories. I don't feel ashamed for doing so, because this is an old friend who used to be grounded in reality. Why wouldn't I have believed her? Now I just have sorrow to see her so ill. And that's the difference, I know it's natural for an honest, grounded person to believe a friend. And that there is no reason for me to be ashamed of doing so. And I know that a healthy person doesn't craft these elaborate stories. Knowing this, I know she's ill and I can be sorry for her illness without feeling that any of this is my fault or responsibility.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 6:48:08 AM

DarkSteven

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I have had people come into my life who just carried extreme drama with them. Usually some degree was real and some not. After a while, they get kicked out and my life improves.

I'm getting more cynical with age.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 6:58:52 AM

lally2

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damaged people pull shit like this - inane need for attention above and beyond whats already given - people who need drama to make them feel normal - people who have to destroy whats good because they cant handle good. its a whole other tragic that most of us wont do.

she lives this world of hers and in the end i cant help feeling sorry for her - youve escaped, she cant because its who she is.

maybe this thread might wake her up, who knows, i hope so.

in the meantime, from what i can tell she's lost a good and decent man and that in the end is her tradgedy.

no matter how you feel about a person, when the trust is so fundamentally abused the whole thing is phucked.

all thats left now is for you to remember that not everyone is damaged, not everyone lies.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 7:01:22 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
Take a deep breath...

Look, I've been conned before, I possibly will be conned again, in some ways I am a soft touch. But at the end of the day, I'll live with my karma and they live with theirs, and I wouldn't want to have theirs...

A situation happened yesterday, that set me off. I was not expecting it, yet I could not deny it either. I found myself in that dreadful state of Cognitive Dissonance. I found myself trying to make excuses for what I was seeing happen, which contradicted what I was told. In fact it had happened the night before last to. I don't have much tolerance for being lied to anymore. Anyways, this has resulted in the end of a friendship. I'm not the same person they knew a few years ago, and they ain't the same person I knew a few years ago. They made their choice and I've made my own. While I can't make somebody be honest with me, I do have the choice to put an end to things. I can't afford to be soft anymore when it comes to certain things.

Well, part of their karma is you are out of their lives, they lost a friend.

As long as you know you acted to the best of your ability and they deceived you, you can walk away without a backwards glimpse, in fact they are possibly not worth that glimpse. They made their own bed, let them sleep in it. You were a nice person and got taken advantage of, it happens, it feels horrible, but on the other hand, wouldn't it feel much more horrible to not have done something if you could have and a person would have suffered because you were callus?

What I'm trying to say is, the blame is on the person who deceived you, not you! Don't let it eat you, let it go, move forward and don't let it poison your life.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 7:30:56 AM

angelikaJ

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I am so sorry for your pain.

I knew someone whose need for sympathy and attention was so great it actually essentially killed her: she had Munchausen syndrome.

But sometimes in life, extraordinary and seemingly implausible things do happen: my parents (who had been divorced for over 30 years) unexpectedly died 11 days apart in 2003.
My ss# has repeating digits with a 0 thrown in.

What you experienced is a very specific betrayal and all betrayals are difficult.
However, I don't think you should be upset and angry with yourself because you took care in selecting gifts... or even that you fell for the deceptions.
The woman who had Munchausen was able to con doctors and her husband for years.

Don't be angry with yourself because you cared and loved someone.

Can you learn from it? Of course you can, but the lesson might be a different one than you think.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 7:58:09 AM

Kalista07

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First I must apologize because I feel like (right or wrong) my thread triggered a lot of this stuff for you...

Second I want to tell you that I totally get where you are coming from. In my life I like to classify myself as private...my friends consider me at times as being secretive, to each their own and all right? Part of my personality is that I try to just accept people at face value...However let me tell you all of the 'tradgedies' his slave had incurred since entering our life: two nights before my wedding (which she was in) she had to be the person to pull the plug on her grandfather, {to which there was no obituary in the paper..... I wasn't fact checking on her. I actually felt really bad for her and wanted to let her know we cared and was trying to send her flowers}, she was was being physically abused by a guy she had the hots for who she was letting stay there for free, she was robbed and nearly kidnapped from her place of employment at gun point she only managed to escape because the police were waiting outside for her.(again there was nothing on the news or in the newspaper about this incident in her area), her "other" grandfather recently was dying and then did die, oh yes, then most recently her 'childhood' cancer was coming back and she had to take some chemo medicine.....fortunately for her it did not. These are just the major events in her life. I'm not telling you about all the small bullshit petty things that we fed into daily....Or how she didn't work for about 7 months and lived with us for free.
While she lived with us I bought her flowers and had them sent to her on at least three separate occasions.
When it became apparent I was moving out the people at work began to put some things together (obviously not the BDSM aspect) and were very angry with both my husband and her........ Even some of our local community friends have not believed some of her most recent claims. Well, between that and the petty bullshit she has been posting about me on an alternative website. Everyone was getting really frustrated with me regarding me not being angry with them.... I just wasn't... at all!!
And then suddenly it hit me!! And it hit me hard! It lasted maybe three or so weeks, and I hated every minute of it....Because here's my reality with anger. Being angry is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die!!!! While I'm shriveling up and dying on the inside whiting away....withering into nothing.... they are moving along with their lives... acting like nothing is going on..... I can stay resentful, angry, and bitter or I can move on. Sometimes the best revenge is the life well lived.

I don't know that any of what I've written will be of assistance to you.....my hope is that you will find some solace in this. Prior to meeting the succubus (as I've come to refer to her) my husband was an extremely intelligent man. Now, I don't even recognize him.

Stay strong and remember no one is worth all of this,

Kali

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 8:07:45 AM

LaTigresse

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Whip, here is the way I look at it.

I am pretty cynical.....I always half expect people to pull crazy shit. But.....I also believe in giving people a chance. I know that shit happens. I have the philosophy of giving people enough rope to hang themselves, keeping quiet and watching. Over time, they either prove themselves to be a lying drama magnet......of some sort or another. Or, they deal with their shit and prove to be stronger for it. They prove that they really want to grow and move forward.

What Lally and LadyC wrote really resonates with me. I already know my strengths. I know that I can offer moral support, even love, without a great deal of cost/drain to me. To a certain degree, believing their shit doesn't really hurt me any. Most of the time I don't allow people close enough to hurt me, or drain me, until I've seen a pattern, or in this case a lack thereof. But that doesn't mean I haven't. I've been reeled in a time or two. I learned from it and moved on. I don't hate them and I don't hate myself. It is part of what has made me who I am today.

I think I've learned how to be empathetic without allowing them to drain me. I think that is the key.......for me. I am not going to get emotionally invested in their drama. That is their shit not mine.

Granted, in your example, it was a long process and you were emotionally invested before you realized the ridiculous bullshit drama. I can understand the hell of the pregnancy....that is a motherfucker there.

If there is anything you can possibly learn from it, and I think that many 'white knights' run the risk of being in your shoes, is to be more watchful of the red flags that were probably there. To look inside yourself and see what lead you to ignore the red flags and how to be more watchful in the future without closing yourself off completely. It's a fine line to walk. A balancing act. Look at what draws you to damaged people, to want to save them perhaps.

I think you also need to forgive yourself.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 8:09:35 AM

agirl

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Seriously Whiplash, over the last 10 yrs my life has involved bouts of hideously real cluster-fucks.

The big difference I can see here, is that when I was in the midst of each of them, I was wanting him to come along with me, not just listen to the trauma.....so *daughter in hospital after a stroke* included him visiting her with me and being there ever since throughout the long recovery. I don't have to yak away about it, he only has to have lunch with her and the family to see it all perfectly clearly for himself. My breast biopsy? He was there for it, sat beside me as it was done. Teen pregnancy?..... pretty much speaks for itself. Let's just say that it's all verifiable because he was able to come and support/lend practical assistance.

It's tons easier to be taken for a ride if you're kept at arms length or if you're not actually involved. When you have the ability to actually arrive on the doorstep it cuts right through it all.

Through any major incident occuring here, he knew that I'd wish for his presence, support and strength.

It COULD have looked mightly suspicious that in a space of months such a series of ragged, crappy situations reared their ugly heads :)

It's clear from your post that you weren't close enough to physically be of help, this does put you in the position of being able to be sold down the river, emotionally, by a manipulator, sadly enough.

A friend of mine was told he was the future father of twins by a girl who wanted a relationship with him that he wasn't able or commited to provide.........She didn't ever have a single appointment that he was able to attend...he was always told about them after she'd been to them. Then she *lost* the babies at 20 weeks and he wasn't called to be there or even told until the following day....he never saw a scan of them, there was nothing apart from her *word* that she was even pregnant. The babies seemed to have been *spirited* away.......and having never been part of any process of parenthood, he was accepting of the whole thing. She *also*had a small female op at the time, he never spoke to any staff, no-one spoke to him.

I lost a baby at 20wks.....hubbie was there, the baby died(understandably), pictures were taken and a funeral was held.

Sometimes the truth sits outside of your realm of understanding and expectations but the reality of being able to be physically involved eliminates much of that.

agirl

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:23:19 AM

juliaoceania

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fast reply

There was something my mom told me that I have repeatedly ignored.... in every serious relationship I have ever had...and I will quote it for the OP

"Don't get involved with anyone that has more problems than you"....

Let me repeat that for those who may have missed it the first time

"Don't get involved with anyone that has more problems than you"....

Lord knows it is a hard piece of advice to follow, especially for those of us that have been fond of stray dogs and wounded birds.....

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:36:52 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fast reply

There was something my mom told me that I have repeatedly ignored.... in every serious relationship I have ever had...and I will quote it for the OP

"Don't get involved with anyone that has more problems than you"....

Let me repeat that for those who may have missed it the first time

"Don't get involved with anyone that has more problems than you"....

Lord knows it is a hard piece of advice to follow, especially for those of us that have been fond of stray dogs and wounded birds.....

That would have ruled M and I out from the word *go*......LOL

(added)...It's not the problems...it's how they're being dealt with.

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 5/29/2011 9:38:46 AM >

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:43:04 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

That would have ruled M and I out from the word *go*......LOL

(added)...It's not the problems...it's how they're being dealt with.

agirl

There are challenges, and then there are problems... I define health matters, temporary financial setbacks, issues with one's family, to be challenges...

On the other hand, those who have chronic economic problems due to irresponsibility, cause the family issues, and create their own health matters have "problems"

Challenges can be met and overcome... problems not so much.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:44:54 AM

LaTigresse

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Oh lawd.......I know this is going to come across far different than I mean it but it likely would just about rule everyone out for me. I work really hard to maintain balance in my life. I don't usually have big emotional drama going on. It's not that shit doesn't come up, it does. But we try to keep the drama at a very low murmur and just deal with stuff. I think a lot of it is how I look at life also. There is is no 'perfect' no life of blissful happiness all the time. I've learned to embrace the less than perfect as part of life instead of hoping for it to disappear or never show up at all.

I guess it's not that I don't have problems, it's that I don't focus on them or see them as problems. I just see it all as part of life. Anyone that becomes a part of my daily life is either going to have a similar mindset or be able to develop it.

Edited to add......Julia, you snuck that in there before I got finished with my post! I like how you've put that.......challenges rather than problems.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/29/2011 9:47:12 AM >

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:51:04 AM

juliaoceania

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I think I finally got what my mom was saying to me after a long long time....

I tend to have challenges, but then I hook up with people that have problems, and then I have problems...lol. I am not innocent here, because I was getting hooked up with problem people and creating problems for myself.

I am over that now

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:51:21 AM

sexyred1

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First off, I don't believe the title of this thread is accurate. Empathy is something that we all need and without it, we are all a bunch of narcissistic assholes.

Second, I think this thread is a rant from a man who has been hurt and is expressing it by saying empathy is the culprit, instead of trust being broken.

Everyone lies sometime or another. Many, many people lie in relationships, big or small lies. Many, many people experience life problems, some people actually do get cancer, get pregnant, have car accidents, have people die on them, lose jobs, etc.

There is no reason not to have empathy for people; the thing to do is to see how strong your relationship is to weather whatever storm is happening.

I am very cynical because over the last few years, I have experienced some major life problems and found out which friends and lovers were really there for me. Many people bolt at the first sign of a problem; the ones who care for you stay while you figure it all out.

I do not agree that you should never be with someone who has more problems than you, simply because some life problems (like me being out of work right now) are temporary. If you are so high and mighty that you never had a problem, then good for you.

I will never let my empathy for people leave me; I have however, been lied to and I have also seen the difference between people who parade their drama around like the newest fashion and people who keep their problems to themselves and a close knit group of friends or family and solve those problems.

I am at the point where I can now distinguish who is crazy, who is unable to deal with their problems, who really needs advice and who is a lying fuck.

OP, I will tell you something else I have learned: when someone tells you they are fucked up, believe them. When someone lies to you once, don't let them do it again.

Red flags are there for a reason.

But don't let getting played destroy any compassion you may be able to offer for those who really need it.

Empathy in our society is too lacking as it is.

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RE: The Bullshit Game of Empathy - 5/29/2011 9:51:43 AM

heartcream

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Sounds like shit what you went through but here you are on the other side of it. Lick your wounds and count your blessings. It is her not you.

People can really suck and it sucks that they do. People lie with a smile on their face and sometimes I have had a hard time distinguishing whether what they have told me is true or not. "Nice" people lie. Reading the signs becomes a tad easier.

PS Next time please dont do totally crazy.

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