RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (Full Version)

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 12:42:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


"we have repeatedly and consistently criticized her for her numerous lies (including her lies about health care reform"

Then since she's not here to defend her veracity, you get the opportunity to demonstrate the factual basis for her claim. Whatcha got?




Death panels, a term exploited by Sarah Palin is typically what liberals refer to as her lies about Obamacare (or at least one of them) and I assume you as well.

The dirty little secret about Obamacare he hoped would have escaped the headlines was his plan to reform medicare as part of overall deficit reduction, Obama proposed a panel - The Independent Payment Advisory Board  - to recommend savings for the financially doomed program. Translation:  rationing.

  The board, which was an original part of Obamacare, (so called death panel)  consists of 15 unelected bureaucrats who will have unchecked, binding power in the interest of supposedly greater efficiency and lower costs. That means that instead of you or your doctor making decisions about your care, a group of bureaucrats will do it for you.

They will do this by cutting reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and restricting patients from costly end-of-life care by enforcing caps on how much a patient can spend to stay alive.Most at risk will be the disabled, who require special and often expensive care. Cancer patients will be at risk, as well, since chemotherapy and other oncological treatments are some of the priciest.

In the past, Obama had hinted that we'll need a way to address these patients. "The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80% of the total health care bill out here." He said this shortly after taking office. "There is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place."

But there was no real conversation. Democrats inserted the rationing panel into the Affordable Care Act (i.e., Obamacare), and when the opposition tried to draw attention to the risks involved by invoking rationing, they were branded by the left and the mainstream media as crazies (that is Sarah Palin is a liar smear tactic character assassination Bullshit which addresses what  MY FREAKIN POINT HAS BEEN ALL ALONG).

Is it a fair to compare death panels to rationing to The Independent Payment Advisory Board ? I believe it is. It's open for debate, not character assassination.



 

 







Do you really think facts will stop them telling lies? Especially about SP?




mnottertail -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 12:44:58 PM)

You would have to come up with more than hints and innuendo to have more than a laugh-a-thon.

But you ain't got that.





lovmuffin -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 12:46:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yeah, right, how insurance works now. 



Ok.....so lets make it even worse.




mnottertail -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 12:50:08 PM)

How is it making it worse? It is exactly how it works now, except that the death panels are people with a pecuniary interest in the outcomes.  Tell you what, get single payer universal passed.  




lovmuffin -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 12:53:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Do you really think facts will stop them telling lies? Especially about SP?



By the time I get done with em,  You Betcha,  one liberal at a time.




mnottertail -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 12:54:18 PM)

Hopefully, you will start posting salient facts soon, then. 




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:07:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Do you really think facts will stop them telling lies? Especially about SP?



By the time I get done with em,  You Betcha,  one liberal at a time.



I will refrain from dampening your enthusiasm in the future, but you have a better chance of stopping a runaway 18 wheeler barehanded than you do of stopping a liberal on this board from lying. You can count the honest ones on one hand...if you lost a finger in an accident.

edit: Eg, I will lay 2:1 that the post following mine is a lie, without even unblocking him. [sm=banana.gif]




mnottertail -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:11:46 PM)

And the conservatives have yet to come with credible citable fact.  The best they can do when caught in a lie (which is every time) is go into the Joe the Plumber routine.




lovmuffin -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:17:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

How is it making it worse? It is exactly how it works now, except that the death panels are people with a pecuniary interest in the outcomes.  Tell you what, get single payer universal passed.  



We have something similar to single payer that is, if health care is unaffordable there is medicaid and medicare.

Wouldn't it be better to the figure out how to eliminate the more than 100 billion a year in fraud these programs generate ?

What about affordable drugs ?  Why does it cost Americans so much for drugs when Canadians are cutting deals and buying in bulk and Americans  get them cheaper by ordering from or going to Canada ? 

Why should it cost 100 million for a drug company to get a drug on the market ?

And why in Gods green earth can't we address tort reform ? That alone could save gajillions on our medical bills.

All these things would go a long way toward driving down the costs without restructuring what amounts to 17% of the economy. 

SCZHEEEEEEESH




lovmuffin -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:20:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hopefully, you will start posting salient facts soon, then. 


I've stated *my* case.  I don't know what your talking about.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:24:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hopefully, you will start posting salient facts soon, then. 


I've stated *my* case.  I don't know what your talking about.



QED!




lovmuffin -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:28:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy





Do you really think facts will stop them telling lies? Especially about SP?


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


By the time I get done with em,  You Betcha,  one liberal at a time.



I will refrain from dampening your enthusiasm in the future, but you have a better chance of stopping a runaway 18 wheeler barehanded than you do of stopping a liberal on this board from lying. You can count the honest ones on one hand...if you lost a finger in an accident.

edit: Eg, I will lay 2:1 that the post following mine is a lie, without even unblocking him. [sm=banana.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And the conservatives have yet to come with credible citable fact.  The best they can do when caught in a lie (which is every time) is go into the Joe the Plumber routine.







Sorry to burn your eyes out by re posting that  but can you figure out what he's trying to say ?




mnottertail -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 1:52:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


Death panels, a term exploited by Sarah Palin is typically what liberals refer to as her lies about Obamacare (or at least one of them) and I assume you as well.

(an assumption, not fact)


The dirty little secret about Obamacare he hoped would have escaped the headlines was his plan to reform medicare as part of overall deficit reduction, Obama proposed a panel - The Independent Payment Advisory Board  - to recommend savings for the financially doomed program. Translation:  rationing.

(not a dirty secret whatsoever.
Here is the fact:

The Independent Payment Advisory Board, or IPAB, is a
United States Government agency created in 2010 by sections 3403 and 10320 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which has the explicit task of reducing the rate of growth in Medicare without affecting coverage or quality. Under previous law, changes to Medicare reimbursement rates were recommended by MedPAC but required an act of congress to take effect, but the new system devolves responsibility to IPAB with congress being given the power to overrule the agency's decisions.)

(streamlining, efficiency in government)


The board, which was an original part of Obamacare, (so called death panel)  consists of 15 unelected bureaucrats who will have unchecked, binding power in the interest of supposedly greater efficiency and lower costs. That means that instead of you or your doctor making decisions about your care, a group of bureaucrats will do it for you.
(lie revealed!!!!! not unchecked and not quite binding either.)
And does not mean that the decisions for your care are entirely up to them on case by case basis.  As they are in an insurance company deathpanel, who as I have stated have a personal monetary interest in killing you instead of paying (it is actually their job) 




They will do this by cutting reimbursements to doctors and hospitals and restricting patients from costly end-of-life care by enforcing caps on how much a patient can spend to stay alive.
(exactly how insurance works today!!!!!!! fearmongering Joe the Plumber style, distinctions without differences   'THEY'  the nameless faceless 'THEY' )


Most at risk will be the disabled, who require special and often expensive care. Cancer patients will be at risk, as well, since chemotherapy and other oncological treatments are some of the priciest.

(same as insurance today with all mitigations noted prior)

In the past, Obama had hinted that we'll need a way to address these patients. "The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80% of the total health care bill out here." He said this shortly after taking office. "There is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place."

Doesn't look like a hint (that is a sinister innuendo, I belive the fucking guy actually said it!!!!!)

But there was no real conversation. Democrats inserted the rationing panel into the Affordable Care Act (i.e., Obamacare), and when the opposition tried to draw attention to the risks involved by invoking rationing, they were branded by the left and the mainstream media as crazies (that is Sarah Palin is a liar smear tactic character assassination Bullshit which addresses what  MY FREAKIN POINT HAS BEEN ALL ALONG).
 
I agree with your assessment that she is a liar...smearer....character assassinator....you needn't yell!!!!


Is it a fair to compare death panels to rationing to The Independent Payment Advisory Board ? I believe it is.
 
It is fair to compare the insurance industry way of doing business (championed by the conservatives), the IPAB board, and death panels. 
 
 It's open for debate, not character assassination.

And you immediately smear and assassinate.


So, we see some outright lies, some distinctions drawn without difference, insinuating that only the evilist of intentions are the governments, and insinuating by implication that the Insurance death panels are altruistic.
 
A fact would be, Jerry Garcia is dead.  You haven't got those. 
You have stated your case, and I don't buy your assumptions, and don't buy your deal.  It is smear, plain and simple.
 


Joe the Plumber turned out to be a hypothetical, but unreal thing.  Same as this is, and thats your translation you wanted.





thompsonx -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:12:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy



Do you really think facts will stop them telling lies? Especially about SP?



By the time I get done with em,  You Betcha,  one liberal at a time.



So far you have not come up with jack shit.




Moonhead -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:18:53 PM)

Who is this Jo the plumper Sorebutt was cheating on his wife with, anyway?




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:36:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And the conservatives have yet to come with credible citable fact.  The best they can do when caught in a lie (which is every time) is go into the Joe the Plumber routine.







Sorry to burn your eyes out by re posting that  but can you figure out what he's trying to say ?



the English translation is "I am clueless about anything discussed on this board, so I'll run to moveon.org for a recycled soundbite, and will sound oh so clever doing so".




RacerJim -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:41:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

With "none of the above"(Gallup Poll) leading the Republican primary race with those all ready in, and the potential candidates. Can either one of these people make any difference?
I know those of us who are registered Democrats, wouldn't vote for either but do those who are registered Republican's see either of these 2 as viable candidates?
Edited due to posting without my glasses once again

Any Republican, Independent or write in with the guts to call Obama's bluff is a viable candidate.




SilverMark -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:42:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

With "none of the above"(Gallup Poll) leading the Republican primary race with those all ready in, and the potential candidates. Can either one of these people make any difference?
I know those of us who are registered Democrats, wouldn't vote for either but do those who are registered Republican's see either of these 2 as viable candidates?
Edited due to posting without my glasses once again

Any Republican, Independent or write in with the guts to call Obama's bluff is a viable candidate.

You have the right to be wrong...and in your case, you normally are




RacerJim -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:43:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

do those who are registered Republican's see either of these 2 as viable candidates?



nope, not in this lifetime.


I should add that it would be ammusing to see Sarah win, just to watch heads explode all over cm, but then we would have to put up with her for 4 years and it wouldn't be that ammusing.

As if Obama's intentional destruction of America has been that ammusing.




RacerJim -> RE: Palin on the road Bachman on TV and headed to Iowa (6/2/2011 2:46:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

do those who are registered Republican's see either of these 2 as viable candidates?



nope, not in this lifetime.


I should add that it would be ammusing to see Sarah win, just to watch heads explode all over cm, but then we would have to put up with her for 4 years and it wouldn't be that ammusing.


Do you really think she could win boi? I know the american public is fickle as hell but unless some disaster happens, I dont see any of the present R folks winning in '12.


Sarah Palin has a better chance of winning than Obama had. The American public is indeed fickle as hell but at least Sarah Palin is eligible according to the Constitution.




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