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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/1/2011 8:40:24 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No sweetie, nobody takes anything you have to say on the subject seriously or believes you arent a flaming bigot since your vile exchanges with Anaxagoras (except other flaming bigots of course). I do give you credit for learning from that experience and not repeating them, but while you can prod the mods into erasing your crap, they cant erase it from our memories.


In the words of a one openly pro-Israeli poster, to allege anti-Semitism against me is:
"[A] fucking lie, and you are a fucking liar. NEVER in anything I have read of Tweaky's has she stated any hatred of Israel or Israelis. She is pro-Palestitinian, and anti Israeli government policies as expressed by Likud and by Netahanyu, but she has NEVER expressed a hatred for Israel." http://www.collarchat.com/m_3695991/mpage_7/key_porcupine/tm.htm#3702122

Elsewhere, you have have directly equated me advocating "peace and justice for all" with the "annihilation of Israel". Who knows what passes for a definition of anti-Israeli "bigotry" in your mind - the rest of us don't.

In your first post here, you stated:
"Come back when you arent relying on proven anti-Semitic sources."

Please produce the proof that ynet, the Israeli magazine 972, http://www.themedialine.org or 'The Guardian' are "proven anti-Semitic sources". You don't need me to point out exactly where failure to produce proof will leave you and the little that remains of your credibility on this issue.

I also note that, thus far, you haven't produced a shred of evidence to refute any of the reports in the OP. You can make all the wild bigoted allegations you like, it won't camouflage your apparently complete inability to address the OP. Thus far, it's simply your word (FWIW) vs Israeli and multi-national media and Palestinian sources. I doubt any one will lose sleep struggling with that equation.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/1/2011 8:44:34 PM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/1/2011 8:54:58 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No sweetie, nobody takes anything you have to say on the subject seriously or believes you arent a flaming bigot since your vile exchanges with Anaxagoras (except other flaming bigots of course). I do give you credit for learning from that experience and not repeating them, but while you can prod the mods into erasing your crap, they cant erase it from our memories.


In the words of a one openly pro-Israeli poster, to allege anti-Semitism against me is:
"[A] fucking lie, and you are a fucking liar. NEVER in anything I have read of Tweaky's has she stated any hatred of Israel or Israelis. She is pro-Palestitinian, and anti Israeli government policies as expressed by Likud and by Netahanyu, but she has NEVER expressed a hatred for Israel." http://www.collarchat.com/m_3695991/mpage_7/key_porcupine/tm.htm#3702122

In your first post here, you stated:
"Come back when you arent relying on proven anti-Semitic sources."

Please produce the proof that ynet, the Israeli magazine 972, http://www.themedialine.org or 'The Guardian' are "proven anti-Semitic sources". You don't need me to point out exactly where failure to produce proof will leave you and the little that remains of your credibility on this issue.

I also note that, thus far, you haven't produced a shred of evidence to refute any of the reports in the OP. You can make all the wild bigoted allegations you like, it won't camouflage your inability to address the OP. Thus far, it's simply your word (FWIW) vs Israeli and multi-national media and Palestinian sources. I doubt any one will lose sleep struggling with that equation.




Why would I waste time refuting progaganda. You do understand how propoganda works right? If not, read about how Michael Moore twists the truth to suit his own agenda.

As far as proven anti-Semitic sources, a reporter quitting the Guardian over its anti-Semitism and 2 staffers following her suffice to me. Im sure it wouldnt for you. 972 "magazine"???? Its a fucking blog for goddsake. medialine...dont know them, and the quote is no big deal. Kudos for at least not trying to defend silwanic.net!

Using a CM poster, especially one who came after your Anaxagoras exchanges, is supposed to prove something? Thats like JO supporting something TG says.

keep trying, tweets, no one with a memory is buying it though.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/1/2011 11:04:19 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

In the words of a one openly pro-Israeli poster, to allege anti-Semitism against me is:
"[A] fucking lie, and you are a fucking liar. NEVER in anything I have read of Tweaky's has she stated any hatred of Israel or Israelis. She is pro-Palestitinian, and anti Israeli government policies as expressed by Likud and by Netahanyu, but she has NEVER expressed a hatred for Israel." http://www.collarchat.com/m_3695991/mpage_7/key_porcupine/tm.htm#3702122

In your first post here, you stated:
"Come back when you arent relying on proven anti-Semitic sources."

Please produce the proof that ynet, the Israeli magazine 972, http://www.themedialine.org or 'The Guardian' are "proven anti-Semitic sources". You don't need me to point out exactly where failure to produce proof will leave you and the little that remains of your credibility on this issue.

You can make all the wild bigoted allegations you like, it won't camouflage your inability to address the OP. [...] Thus far, it's simply your word (FWIW) vs Israeli and multi-national media and Palestinian sources.





As far as proven anti-Semitic sources, a reporter quitting the Guardian over its anti-Semitism and 2 staffers following her suffice to me. Im sure it wouldnt for you. 972 "magazine"???? Its a fucking blog for goddsake. medialine...dont know them, and the quote is no big deal.


You were asked to provide evidence 4 named media sources were "proven anti-Semitic". Your response:
*on ynet you have nothing to say. No proof.
*on 972: Willbur claims it's a blog. It's a magazine as a quick visit to the site here will confirm. The staff (http://972mag.com/about ) all have Israeli-sounding names. Willbur's claim is false. No proof
*on medialine: Willbur has nothing to say to worth talking about. No proof.
* On The Guardian Willbur offers a contentious claim without any evidence to support it. Previously, IIRC, when Willbur first aired this claim, it was questioned by a regular UK poster who stated they had never heard of the incident. Willbur was asked to supply evidence to back his claim up. I never saw any evidence - AFAIK he was uanble to back it up. So, no evidence. No proof.


That adds up to a total of zero evidence to support Willbur's claims. Not a skerrig. As usual Willbur's claims and the truth are a million miles apart. Nor is this the only instance of such behaviour. Currently this debate over Willbur's cred is being repeated on the "Atrocities in Islamic countries" thread where Willbur is required to back his implied claim that Obama's mates are rapists. Again no evidence is offered.

So it's still Willbur's unsubstantiated claim (FWIW) vs Israeli and multi-national media and Palestinian sources.

I am beginning the think that point blank refusal of pro-Zionists here to address the OP is almost pathological. What is it about the OP that they find so threatening? Why is their only tactic to repeatedly introduce red herrings and make wild unsubstantiated personal allegations? Why do they seem so intent on avoiding discussion of the OP? Is it unthinkable for them that Israelis are less than perfect? Will that cause the sky to fall in? Will that cause their world to collapse?

One answer to all these questions might be that the OP contains truths they cannot handle. It might just be that the IDF is making life hell for ordinary Palestinians on a ruthless systematic basis to drive them off their ancestral lands. It's easy to see why they cannot face up to that possibility.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/1/2011 11:08:58 PM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 5:31:13 AM   
Moonhead


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Maybe he's got the Guardian and the Star confused? I know that the latter have had a hack quit over a faked up pro EDL story recently. If he can't tell newspapers apart, failing to grasp the difference between flavours of antisemitism shouldn't come as a surprise.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:01:52 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Maybe he's got the Guardian and the Star confused? I know that the latter have had a hack quit over a faked up pro EDL story recently. If he can't tell newspapers apart, failing to grasp the difference between flavours of antisemitism shouldn't come as a surprise.

One Julie Burchill quit da "Granuaid" in 2004 over what she saw as rampant anti-Semitism. Don't know bout da others he mentions. Don't think da EDL are anti-juice just cause they are nationalists...

< Message edited by WantsOfTheFlesh -- 6/2/2011 6:05:59 AM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:09:48 AM   
Moonhead


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Actually, Julie Burchill quit the Guardian because she was offered a higher paying job on the Times. She just came out with a load of blather about how the Guardian were antisemites because they always picked on Israel in her last column, and seemed to be more indulging in a conservative "poor me" victim whine about her role as the paper's token reactionary than giving a shit about Israel, which she just mentioned as proof of that.

(You're aware that La Burchill hasn't actually been a journalist since she stopped interviewing people for The Face back in the '80s? She's spent the last twenty years knocking out opinion columns for newspapers' weekend arts supplements.)

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:14:16 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Actually, Julie Burchill quit the Guardian because she was offered a higher paying job on the Times. She just came out with a load of blather about how the Guardian were antisemites because they always picked on Israel in her last column, and seemed to be more indulging in a conservative "poor me" victim whine about her role as the paper's token reactionary than giving a shit about Israel, which she just mentioned as proof of that.

Don't think so bud. I remember reading an article she wrote at the time which created da impression she was genuine and she has written on this same issue a fair bit since then from what I've seen anyhoo. Could be wrong but I thunk Willbe has you on block which explains why he didnae get back to you bout your query before laddie.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:29:42 AM   
Moonhead


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Then I'm afraid you think wrong. Sorry. This is probably the article in question...

Burchill makes it clear that she's leaving because the Times are going to pay her more in her first paragraph, and she makes the following entirely egalitarian plea for tolerance:
quote:


Jews historically have been blamed for everything we might disapprove of: they can be rabid revolutionaries, responsible for the might of the late Soviet empire, and the greediest of fat cats, enslaving the planet to the demands of international high finance. They are insular, cliquey and clannish, yet they worm their way into the highest positions of power in their adopted countries, changing their names and marrying Gentile women. They collectively possess a huge, slippery wealth that knows no boundaries - yet Israel is said to be an impoverished, lame-duck state, bleeding the west dry.


Strange way of putting over an argument against antisemitism, and if you do a bit of that research stuff, you can find even nastier comments about Jews she's made over the years. If that's all Wilbur's got, he's bluffing, I'm afraid.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:43:07 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Then I'm afraid you think wrong. Sorry. This is probably the article in question...

Burchill makes it clear that she's leaving because the Times are going to pay her more in her first paragraph, and she makes the following entirely egalitarian plea for tolerance:
quote:


Jews historically have been blamed for everything we might disapprove of: they can be rabid revolutionaries, responsible for the might of the late Soviet empire, and the greediest of fat cats, enslaving the planet to the demands of international high finance. They are insular, cliquey and clannish, yet they worm their way into the highest positions of power in their adopted countries, changing their names and marrying Gentile women. They collectively possess a huge, slippery wealth that knows no boundaries - yet Israel is said to be an impoverished, lame-duck state, bleeding the west dry.

Strange way of putting over an argument against antisemitism, and if you do a bit of that research stuff, you can find even nastier comments about Jews she's made over the years. If that's all Wilbur's got, he's bluffing, I'm afraid.

Not sure which piece it was I read but Moony you took that quote completely out of context. She was describing da symptoms of anti-Semitism as referred to in a book (Debating Judeophobia In 21st-Century Britain) which you must have surely known. Go easy on Willbe, seems here dat its not so much him bluffing as your rigid insistance you are right.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 8:31:06 AM   
Moonhead


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In this case I am right. Sorry. Until Wilbur can name the hack (and we don't know that it is Burchill he's thinking of) and the couple of colleagues who followed her, then he's failed to substantiate this claim. Claiming that he has me ignore is hardly a get out clause, either, given that a few other posters have asked the same, and he's failed to put up in either case.

If you didn't like the last quotation, how about this one? I've emphasised the part that actually pertains to why Burchill took another job, regardless of whatever self aggrandising bullshit she's been spouting for the seven years since:
quote:


As you might have heard, I'm leaving the Guardian next year for the Times, having finally been convinced that my evil populist philistinism has no place in a publication read by so many all-round, top-drawer plaster saints. (Well, that and the massive wad they've waved at me.)


< Message edited by Moonhead -- 6/2/2011 8:32:13 AM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 11:23:48 AM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
In this case I am right. Sorry. Until Wilbur can name the hack (and we don't know that it is Burchill he's thinking of) and the couple of colleagues who followed her, then he's failed to substantiate this claim. Claiming that he has me ignore is hardly a get out clause, either, given that a few other posters have asked the same, and he's failed to put up in either case.

If you didn't like the last quotation, how about this one? I've emphasised the part that actually pertains to why Burchill took another job, regardless of whatever self aggrandising bullshit she's been spouting for the seven years since:
quote:


As you might have heard, I'm leaving the Guardian next year for the Times, having finally been convinced that my evil populist philistinism has no place in a publication read by so many all-round, top-drawer plaster saints. (Well, that and the massive wad they've waved at me.)


Sorry Moony, in this case you are guilty being stubborn. The "few other posters" are just Da Tweak lol. In da quote Burchill made a humorous quip about a "massive wad" but the substance of the reason stated in da article was that she didn't belong at the Granuaid politically, and a primary objection was their views on Israel/Jews inc at the Observer.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 2:02:12 PM   
Moonhead


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Tweak, and NorthernGent and FLCouple, in fact.
Burchill has spent most of her career as a columnist lying through her teeth and altering facts in hindsight to make herself look better. The column I've linked to is an obvious case of this, particularly as her complaints about liberal jewbashing appears to be more an excuse to have a go at Richard Ingrams than anything else.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 4:08:29 PM   
tweakabelle


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Notewrothy too are Burchill's so-serious so-intellectual stated reasons for her position in her Guardian piece :
"I can't help noticing that, over the years, a disproportionate number of attractive, kind, clever people are drawn to Jews; those who express hostility to them, however, from Hitler to Hamza, are often as not repulsive freaks.

Think of famous anti-Zionist windbags - Redgrave, Highsmith, Galloway - and what dreary, dysfunctional, po-faced vanity confronts us. When we consider famous Jew-lovers, on the other hand - Marilyn, Ava, Liz, Felicity Kendal, me - what a sumptuous banquet of radiant humanity we look upon
!"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2003/nov/29/weekend.julieburchill

Clearly her position is not the outcome of a formidable intellectual process or any analysis of pertinent data. It's just a good look (or so she tells us).

Even if, for the sake of discussion, we grant Willbur's claim that 'The Guardian' is "proven anti-Semitic", then that leaves another 3 sources which he claimed were the also "proven anti-Semitic sources", but for which no supporting evidence or proof has yet been advanced.

When asked for proof themedialine.org, was a "proven anti-Semitic source" Willbur responded: "medialine...dont know them, and the quote is no big deal.". One might reasonably ask if Willbur "doesn't know them", on what basis does he allege them to be a "proven anti-Semitic source"? This is BS of the first order.

That he was 100% wrong in describing 972 magazine as a "blog" (as if being a blog on its own makes it anti-Semitic!) can be confirmed by a quick visit to 972 magazine here. A single click reveals Willbur's tenuous relationship with truth (some would say non-existent relationship).

So Willbur has been making wild claims will no basis in fact again. I say again because regular posters here are very familiar with Willbur's penchant for making things up whenever it suits him. This is why his claims of bigotry can be dismissed derisively - Willbur has no credibility on this (or many other issues) at all.

I note that all of our resident voluble pro-Zionists - usually they can't be shut up - still remain unable or unwilling to address or even comment upon any of the reports in the OP. Do they seriously believe that the massive systematic abuses described in the OP are going to go away if they pretend they don't exist?

Ignoring the obvious, denying reality, and inventing spurious claims might be necessary to maintain faith in Zionist causes, but do they really believe that the rest of the world is join them, ostrich-like, and sticking its collective head in the sand too? Do they seriously believe that the world is going to look the other way and let them complete the theft of Occupied Palestine? And what does their attitude of blanket denial say about their cause?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/2/2011 4:11:40 PM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 4:39:59 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Even if, for the sake of discussion, we grant Willbur's claim that 'The Guardian' is "proven anti-Semitic"...

Why should we? He hasn't made any effort to prove that any hacks have left the Grauniad over antisemitism, while it can be proven that they have fired trainee journalist who was pushing an islamicist line.
We don't even know he was talking about Burchill, and if he is, who are the other two hacks he claimed walked out in sympathy?

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 4:59:12 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Even if, for the sake of discussion, we grant Willbur's claim that 'The Guardian' is "proven anti-Semitic"...

Why should we? He hasn't made any effort to prove that any hacks have left the Grauniad over antisemitism, while it can be proven that they have fired trainee journalist who was pushing an islamicist line.
We don't even know he was talking about Burchill, and if he is, who are the other two hacks he claimed walked out in sympathy?

Yes. You do have a point. I did make it clear that granting the matter was conditional - "for the sake of discussion". Willbur alleged all my sources were "proven anti-Semitic". He was asked to provide evidence for 4 of the sources. So even if he could get one right (which he failed miserably to do) there were still another 3 claims that he failed utterly to substantiate.

Part of my thinking was that some pro-Zionists here continually make demonstrably false claims, fling abuse about, introduce red herrings and generally do anything to avoid discussing the facts - in this case the OP - or any admission of Israeli culpability on anything. This thread is a good example of this. After 30 odd posts, only one comment from a pro-Israeli discussing the reports in the OP. The rest of the pro-Zionist contribution is the usual abuse, red herrings and falsehoods. So I tried to get their hijack out of the way and focus on the OP - which is, in theory, the reason why we are supposed to posting here in the first place.

You do have a good point though. Why should we let people who continually lie, make false claims and distortions, indulge in abuse etc off the hook? They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it should they? And why do they feel the need to repeatedly lie, cheat and distort in the first place? Are their positions that pathetic they need to invent reasons to persuade others to agree with them?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/2/2011 5:09:38 PM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 5:06:04 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


Why should we let people who continually lie, make false claims and distortions, indulge in abuse etc off the hook? They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it should they? And why do they feel the need to repeatedly lie, cheat and distort in the first place? Are their positions that pathetic they need to invent reasons to persuade others to agree with them?


You should ask those questions of yourself, tweety. But I know your depth of self-delusion wont allow that.

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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 5:29:02 PM   
tweakabelle


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That's your 4th post on this thread Willbur - and still not a single one addressing the issues contained in the OP. Just the usual stream of falsehoods, abuse and red herrings.

I doubt if you have even read the OP - you give no indication of doing so. Just to remind you, here's one of the reports in full ( I chose this report because it's at the top of the list of reports):

"The Israeli police are ramping up arrests and attacks against Palestinian children. Targeting of children is nothing new in West Bank villages like Nabi Saleh and Bil’in. This afternoon, Israeli police raided the house of 8 year-old Ali Siyam in the Occupied East Jerusalem neighborhood of Silwan.
Police have been raiding house in Silwan in a bid to quell stone throwing by Palestinians against Israeli military and police. During today’s operation to take Ali Siyam, Israeli polices officers assaulted Siyam’s aunt and father, the only adults present in the house. Siyam’s aunt was shot in the leg with a rubber coated steel bullet as she attempted to protect the child. Locals say that his father was beaten and maced with pepper spray as police took the boy. Both were transferred to Hadassa Har Hatzofim hospital for treatment.
Siyam was taken to Jerusalem’s Russian Compound police station for questioning regarding alleged stone throwing. His lawyer, Israeli Adv. Lea Tsemel, was present at the compound when he arrived at the station. However, Israeli police did not give Tsamel access to the minor, refusing to allow her to be present during the questioning. Tsemel disobeyed the police and attempted to enter the interrogation area. According to witnesses, Tsemel herself was detained in protest. The child was released from custody at 20:00 local time after hours of questions.
Siyam’s arrest comes days after Israeli soldiers broke the arm of a 9-year-old Palestinian child in the West Bank village of Nabi Saleh. Soldiers, in violation of Israeli army rules of conduct, fired a tear gas canister directly at the child from a range of ten meters. Another 14 year old child was injured from a tear gas canister before the demonstration was over.
"
http://972mag.com/israel-ramping-up-arrests-of-palestinian-children/

the report was written by Joseph Dana. a short bio accompanying the article reads:
"Joseph Dana is an Israeli-American writer and freelance journalist based in Tel Aviv and Ramallah. His work has appeared in The Nation , Le Monde Diplomatique, The National, Tablet Magazine, Al Jazeera English and Haaretz."

So the article is written by an Israeli citizen for an Israeli human rights organisation's magazine. Any allegation of bias or anti-Semitism will be laughable, self evidently ridiculous.

The age of criminal responsibility in Israel is 13. ( http://www.psychinaction.com/uimages/81.pdf )

I look forward to your comments on the above incident Willbur.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/2/2011 5:37:48 PM >


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 5:53:21 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Even if, for the sake of discussion, we grant Willbur's claim that 'The Guardian' is "proven anti-Semitic"...

Why should we? He hasn't made any effort to prove that any hacks have left the Grauniad over antisemitism, while it can be proven that they have fired trainee journalist who was pushing an islamicist line.
We don't even know he was talking about Burchill, and if he is, who are the other two hacks he claimed walked out in sympathy?
Dude, Wilbur can't prove anything. It's axiomatic that if it's a Wilbur post, it's a lie.

BTW, Tweaky, I'm not pro-Israeli so much as I am pro-Israel. Israel's leadership have much to answer for.


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RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:02:46 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Dude, Wilbur can't prove anything. It's axiomatic that if it's a Wilbur post, it's a lie.

BTW, Tweaky, I'm not pro-Israeli so much as I am pro-Israel. Israel's leadership have much to answer for.


Please excuse me if I misplaced the emphasis.

I certainly agree about the leadership. On both sides, 'leaders' are decidedly lacking in leadership qualities. Given a decent leader on both sides, this whole mess could have been cleared up years ago, a peace treaty signed and with thousands of lives saved.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/2/2011 6:05:25 PM >


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(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: A day in the life ......... - 6/2/2011 6:45:42 PM   
WantsOfTheFlesh


Posts: 1226
Joined: 3/3/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Clearly her position is not the outcome of a formidable intellectual process or any analysis of pertinent data. It's just a good look (or so she tells us).

Its a little thing called humor which she injected into da article from the start.

quote:


Even if, for the sake of discussion, we grant Willbur's claim that 'The Guardian' is "proven anti-Semitic", then that leaves another 3 sources which he claimed were the also "proven anti-Semitic sources", but for which no supporting evidence or proof has yet been advanced.

When asked for proof themedialine.org, was a "proven anti-Semitic source" Willbur responded: "medialine...dont know them, and the quote is no big deal.". One might reasonably ask if Willbur "doesn't know them", on what basis does he allege them to be a "proven anti-Semitic source"? This is BS of the first order.

He said he didn't know the site, which doesn't invalidate his general criticism about your sources.

quote:


I note that all of our resident voluble pro-Zionists - usually they can't be shut up - still remain unable or unwilling to address or even comment upon any of the reports in the OP. Do they seriously believe that the massive systematic abuses described in the OP are going to go away if they pretend they don't exist?

You want any expression of support for Israel to literally "shut up". That is obvious throughout with your comments on "Zionists" which you make out to be liars. I said it five times already but it looks like I'll have to say it again. You posted extracts from 18 articles. That doesn't invite analysis or discussion unlike one or two articles which is da norm for OPs. The huge amount of material makes most readers take it at face value so it looks like propaganda cause few have time to weigh da differing accounts of 18 contentious events

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"I had lot's of luck but its all been bad"

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 40
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