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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 4:05:39 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
As far as other comments about the BDSM community and being dysfunctional . . . I don't think we hold and exclusive on it or even a disproportionate share compared to society in general.

One day a few months ago I was curious about this so I googled up a vanilla dating discussion board. The threads pretty much looked exactly like the ones here.


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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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(in reply to ResidentSadist)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 4:14:57 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		I think a lot of really interesting points have been made--and a lot I agree with-- I do believe that there is a lot more visibility of dysfunction within the BDSM world, and that very well may draw dysfunctional people to it.  Some of the things that we describe on these forums as examples of healthy BDSM dynamics between two consenting adults, if posted in a different context--such as a forum on controlling spouses, abusive spouses etc. would read completely differently.

The very nature of BDSM relationship has to do with a power dynamic.  It can be a real tightrope to walk if one or both of those involved in that relationship has difficulty with boundaries or any of the other components of a BDSM dynamic.  Even Non-BDSM folks struggle with communication, sexual health, control--we have many additional challenges to find the right balance. In a place like this, the balance of control in a relationship is going to be very personal, varied and individualized.  What works great for one person here is another's abusive hell. 

I have a lot of friends (vanilla and SM) who experienced abusive relationships.  Never once, did any of them describe feeling happy, emotionally satisfied and joyful while in those relationships.  My BDSM (and vanilla) friends who found the right partner(s) and right dynamics?  All describe feeling happy and satisfied.  So for me, that's the key-- I know how I feel when I'm in a healthy relationship vs. one that is unhealthy for me to be a part of.  And that's my "line"-- how does the relationship make me feel? 

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 4:24:30 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		That is my line, as well. How does a relationship make you feel?

If you feel like crap, then there might be some dysfunction going on.

I don't feel people into kink are more or less dysfunctional than those who are not into kink.

One thing that has not been mentioned (unless I missed it) is that most of the time, if you are being emotionally abused in some way, YOU are responsible for it since YOU are allowing it to happen by staying in the relationship and letting the other person continue.

I have never once in my life been physically or emotionally abused, either as a child, teen or adult UNTIL I allowed myself to be within a specific relationship with someone I was really in love with. We had NOTHING in common but sex and then it turned into a major D/s thing.

I think, in my case, since I never let anyone treat me badly prior to that, I was so enamored over having found a man who got closer to my ideal of my "perfect" Dom, who was able to get me to the places I wanted to be taken to better than anyone else, that I slowly but surely let him treat me with less than I deserved.

So while friends and family were screaming to me to break up with him for a long time, I justified it by saying, oh but it is so hot, maybe he will go back to being wonderful.

But no. And so it was my fault for allowing him to do what he did and I only blame myself.

What my point is, is that I see on these boards, too many instances where a woman (or man) is being abused in some way and yet they have to ask the board if it is OK that they feel badly because they are submissive or a slave.

THAT is what drives me crazy because no one in the vanilla world would have to ask someone if it was ok to be treated badly; but too many put BDSM on a pedestal and pretend that it is ok to not be treated as you wish simply because you have chosen a role.

That is unhealthy in itself and I believe, why SimplyMichael said that the lifestyle somehow glorifies or attracts dysfunctional under the guise of it being kink, and therefore, makes it acceptable.

(in reply to hausboy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 4:36:38 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlilcute

Where do you draw it?

How do you know if it's M/s or emotional abuse?

Are you still in the relationship you talk about in http://www.collarchat.com/m_3666867/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3666867? That certainly sounded dysfunctional and now that you are wondering about abuse, I think it's well past time to move on.

If you are wondering in the context of a new relationship, then it's time for some serious contemplation regarding how you are choosing people.

ETA - I read your last few posts in that other thread and really want to know if you are referring to the guy who sent you this email:

quote:

"I really don't want or expect to put you out. It's not clear to Rose or Me what it is you really want or need. Please just bring your house key, chastity belt, locks and keys and any other item of service to my house on the 22nd of may, we will talk then. Please do not come and clean our house, do not feed baroness as she is taken care of. You are released from coming to (someone's) birthday party on Saturday.
After I am done working 15 hour days the rest of may we can discuss your future and what you want. "


If you went back to him after that YOU are abusing YOURSELF.



< Message edited by kalikshama -- 6/1/2011 4:46:35 PM >

(in reply to sweetlilcute)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 4:38:15 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

I think a lot of really interesting points have been made--and a lot I agree with-- I do believe that there is a lot more visibility of dysfunction within the BDSM world, and that very well may draw dysfunctional people to it.  Some of the things that we describe on these forums as examples of healthy BDSM dynamics between two consenting adults, if posted in a different context--such as a forum on controlling spouses, abusive spouses etc. would read completely differently.

The very nature of BDSM relationship has to do with a power dynamic.  It can be a real tightrope to walk if one or both of those involved in that relationship has difficulty with boundaries or any of the other components of a BDSM dynamic.  Even Non-BDSM folks struggle with communication, sexual health, control--we have many additional challenges to find the right balance. In a place like this, the balance of control in a relationship is going to be very personal, varied and individualized.  What works great for one person here is another's abusive hell. 

I have a lot of friends (vanilla and SM) who experienced abusive relationships. Never once, did any of them describe feeling happy, emotionally satisfied and joyful while in those relationships.  My BDSM (and vanilla) friends who found the right partner(s) and right dynamics?  All describe feeling happy and satisfied.  So for me, that's the key-- I know how I feel when I'm in a healthy relationship vs. one that is unhealthy for me to be a part of.  And that's my "line"-- how does the relationship make me feel? 



Don't misunderstand, I do believe that there are a lot of very healthy, adult relationship going on with many people on this site, and I'm not referring to the things that we do "different" that would look utterly crazy in a vanilla situation.

Please don't take this the wrong way hausboy, because I actually really love your posts and enjoy reading your opinions, but what I bolded is a big part of what I was talking about. You have a lot of friends who were in abusive relationships (you don't mention if you were). Do you ever think about that common thread among you and your friends? I know it sounds harsh, and I'm not talking necessarily about domestic violence, but when caught in that bad relationship loop, you have to look at the common thread. You are totally correct, that when one breaks the cycle, or it only takes that one time to see what's happening, a person moves on to a healthy, happy relationship.

I don't mean they are describing their relationships as wonderful and satisfying, but think for a moment.....when someone posts questions about if something is "right" for a BDSM relationship, we see the same things over and over. There are always those who say, "yes, this is perfectly normal, one is ordered and obeys. End of story." Never the right answer of course, lol. Then there are those who honestly and rationally say, "well, each decides what is right for them, but what you are describing sounds a bit off to me. You should really discuss this with your partner." Inevitably, that usually revokes a defense response from the OP, defending what their partner is doing. It is a cycle, and until someone looks at the only thing that seems to be common in all these relationships going wrong (undeniably the OP in question), then nothing is ever going to change.

Most people who are in vanilla relationships where domestic violence is happening to them, know that it's very wrong, and there are many reasons why they don't run away at that first relization. In BDSM, you're right, the line is often blurred, but when you really sit down and think about it, the line is very clear, albeit different for each individual. If it feels wrong to YOU, then it's wrong. Doesn't matter if your partner thinks it's normal behavior, each individual's first responsibility, regardless of which side of the kneel they are on, is their own well being, and if it ain't working for you, then you talk about it and see if it can be fixed or get the hell out.

(in reply to hausboy)
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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 4:59:10 PM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline 		While this might not apply to all relationships... this is a starting point.. I actually think that while its a great statement, it doesn't really protect M/s relationships...

I think in addition to this statement (link below) I'd suggest that being happy, whatever that means to you, is a part of a good relationship.

http://www.the-crucible.com/bdsm.htm

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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 5:07:07 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
......
I don't feel people into kink are more or less dysfunctional than those who are not into kink.
......
I have never once in my life been physically or emotionally abused, either as a child, teen or adult UNTIL I allowed myself to be within a specific relationship with someone I was really in love with. We had NOTHING in common but sex and then it turned into a major D/s thing.
....
What my point is, is that I see on these boards, too many instances where a woman (or man) is being abused in some way and yet they have to ask the board if it is OK that they feel badly because they are submissive or a slave.

THAT is what drives me crazy because no one in the vanilla world would have to ask someone if it was ok to be treated badly; but too many put BDSM on a pedestal and pretend that it is ok to not be treated as you wish simply because you have chosen a role.

That is unhealthy in itself and I believe, why SimplyMichael said that the lifestyle somehow glorifies or attracts dysfunctional under the guise of it being kink, and therefore, makes it acceptable.


I myself don't feel that people into kink are more or less dysfunctional. However, I am seriously question many things about this online madness (excluding this message board). I agree that this lifestyle, in part, does glorifies or attracts dysfunctional under the guise of it being kink.

There's so much fuck me, abuse me, control me and use me content on profiles... that's it's not funny. There's often a lot missing about the other aspects life missing in the things people write on profiles. I can't also begin to count the number of jaded profiles. People bitching about fakes, liars and etc. Not to mention subs that have been fucked over my Doms and etc. So many attitudes, hang ups and holy shit.

I'm sitting here thinking seriously thinking about this. There is ONE and only ONE person, that I know on a personal level or basis from this site that is not involved in a dysfunctional relationship. Has not been involved in one for some time. Where she herself is not dysfunctional either. A seriously sweet and well rounded slave. No drinking problems, no anger management issues, she's not jaded and bitter, she's personally improved upon herself and her life in a way that would make Anthony Roberts proud.

You really don't see shit about personal growth, outside of this Grow as a submissive or Grow as a Dominant thing going on. In my book, shaping and molding also involves personal growth. Not how to become a more timid passive well mannered quiet slave sleeping in the corners of my living room, that I can fuck and beat the shit out of.

Perhaps I even look at slaves in the context of being a full service slave. To even take pleasure in things such as their artistic and creative abilities. I can't think of the last time. I saw on a profile, a slave offering their creative artistic sides as something for a Master to find or take pleasure in? Seriously! Sure, I Love to Fuck and I love to spank ass. I also want to have somebody half way decent with a personality and a mind. Not somebody with mental hangups and dysfunctions.

There's actually somebody I know, that got out of a very BAD abusive D/s relationship with somebody that was an alcoholic. She's back in the search again, and has looking for sadist all over her profile. Yet she wants somebody to both love and hurt her at the same time. I'm pretty certain she's going to end up finding a Sadist in the true sense...and the cycle will repeat itself all over again. I'd be willing to bet money on it.

I'm sitting here, imagining the thoughts of owning somebody that's creative, artistic and has an entertaining personality and a sense of humor. Along with being affectionate and thoughtful. Not some timid slut that only wants to be beat and fucked then stuffed back inside a cage.

I want to be able to take pleasure in somebody on multiple levels. It's rather frustrating trying to find somebody half way functional that has basic human respect and manners, somebody that does not have a stick up their ass or trying to stick a stick up yours either. LOL

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Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 5:19:37 PM   
whiteslavebitch


Posts: 479
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline 		You draw the line at the point it gets emotionally painful, you'll recognize it when it happens.

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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 5:27:03 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Plenty of times things in our relationship were emotionally painful, and it was not an abusive relationship.


All relationships are going to have emotional pain, and ups and downs. They can not all be rainbows and flowers all the time.
quote:

ORIGINAL: whiteslavebitch

You draw the line at the point it gets emotionally painful, you'll recognize it when it happens.



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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 5:45:34 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Emotional abuse within the context of any relationship (kink or vanilla) is very hard to define. Primarily because both people have the idea they are in love with one another. And love tends to forgive all. From my own experience I know that people with dysfunction "A" slot quite perfectly with people with dysfunction "B."  And they find each other, and initially appear blissfully happy b/c they are getting all their dysfunctional needs met. It is slowly, over time, that the manipulation becomes so extensive outsiders see it as abuse.

But the two are locked into a cycle of abuse that is predictable in it's trajectory: it will escalate. It's like a junkie who needs more to get high. The emotional drama involved becomes a fix, and neither the abuser nor the abused find it easy to stop or walk away. How exactly can you get better, when your soul mate is so perfectly locked into what makes you tick?

It is so easy to say: well a victim mentality will always find a predator. And this is true, but the nature of humanity is that all of us are dysfunctional to some degree, and if you find someone who is the yin to your yang, you can get sucked in. The most emotionally healthy person in the world can get sucked in, for at least a little while.

If you are uncertain if you are in an abusive relationship, ask yourself this: How does this person make me feel about myself? Is it overwhelmingly positive? Or overwhelmingly negative?

Good relationships make you feel good about yourself.

To the OP: I have been reminded of your previous posting history. Leave this relationship and get therapy, please. I know you can't see it, but you need help.






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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 6:04:01 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

Emotional abuse within the context of any relationship (kink or vanilla) is very hard to define. Primarily because both people have the idea they are in love with one another. And love tends to forgive all. From my own experience I know that people with dysfunction "A" slot quite perfectly with people with dysfunction "B."  And they find each other, and initially appear blissfully happy b/c they are getting all their dysfunctional needs met. It is slowly, over time, that the manipulation becomes so extensive outsiders see it as abuse.

But the two are locked into a cycle of abuse that is predictable in it's trajectory: it will escalate. It's like a junkie who needs more to get high. The emotional drama involved becomes a fix, and neither the abuser nor the abused find it easy to stop or walk away. How exactly can you get better, when your soul mate is so perfectly locked into what makes you tick?

It is so easy to say: well a victim mentality will always find a predator. And this is true, but the nature of humanity is that all of us are dysfunctional to some degree, and if you find someone who is the yin to your yang, you can get sucked in. The most emotionally healthy person in the world can get sucked in, for at least a little while.

If you are uncertain if you are in an abusive relationship, ask yourself this: How does this person make me feel about myself? Is it overwhelmingly positive? Or overwhelmingly negative?

Good relationships make you feel good about yourself.

To the OP: I have been reminded of your previous posting history. Leave this relationship and get therapy, please. I know you can't see it, but you need help.



Ditto on this whole post.


_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 6:06:58 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whiteslavebitch
You draw the line at the point it gets emotionally painful, you'll recognize it when it happens.


This is not always true, because at times growing as a person is emotionally painful. Also, if a person is overly needy or insecure it's painful for them if they are not getting the attention they feel they need. So just because something is emotionally painful does not mean they are being abused per se.




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Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 6:10:01 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Thank you. I have been there and done that.

I did not do a lot of commenting on your empathy thread, I could tell you were hurting and nothing I could say was going to help that. Just realize that if you were the one strong enough to walk away, you have a real chance.




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RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 6:12:03 PM   
jennileigh8182


Posts: 173
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~

First off...kudos for even asking this question. From within, it's not always easy to see that a relationship is emotionally abusive, and I agree with whomever said that there's no more reason to ask if it's ok to be treated badly in a D/s relationship than in a vanilla one...it's still abuse.

I was in an emotionally abusive marriage, which still boggles me because I had interned at a domestic abuse shelter and done a lot of work with abused women, and I just didn't SEE what I was going through. I had gotten involved with, and married, this man because I was running from a catastrophic D/s relationship. The man had told me I wasn't a worthy sub, had gone so far, after we'd split up, as to call me on my birthday and gloat about the young girl (he was mid-30s and only got involved with those under 20) he was with and how her family had threatened to disown her and she'd chosen him anyway...and how she was such a good little girl. Yep, on my birthday...nice guy, huh? So, fleeing that, I got involved with someone too quickly, and it was someone that started out nice, but looking back, it fell into emotional abuse fairly quickly. At the time, I was still thinking I was simply unworthy and whatnot, and that I should be lucky to have him. I was lied to, condescended to, blamed for everything, consistently degraded, and just couldn't see that it was abusive. Other people in my life knew, I think, though I tried to cover well. There were very, very few people that didn't applaud me and say "about time!" when I finally left. In any case, it was through some deep and enlightening conversations with a dominant friend of mine that I finally realized the first relationship (the D/s one with Mr. Charming) wasn't all my fault, and that not only did I not deserve what he'd made me feel, but also did not deserve what I was living with, that I -was- a worthwhile person. It was to a point when I hated him coming home from work, hated him calling. I'd stay up for HOURS after he went to bed so I wouldn't have to spend time with him, and so I'd be asleep when he left for work (I was laid off at the time, taking online courses, and caring for a one-year-old). The final straw for me, though, was when he started on our child. He got home from work, our little munchkin toddled over to him and wanted attention, and he shouted, "Can't you go bother someone else? I need ME time!" Within a week, I asked my mom if we could move in there and told him we were leaving.

It's been a bit over two years now, and I finally feel settled and comfortable with who I am again. It took me a LONG time to build my self-esteem back up, and it still flags at time, but it's steadier now than it has been since before the marriage. It took me awhile to admit to my family what had gone on, and the support of a lot of friends for me to find myself again. Looking back, I feel like I should have known, but it does so much damage to your self-esteem that it can be so hard to even realize it's happening. Emotional abuse is a tricky thing, and it's different for everyone. For myself, I got to a point where I didn't even want to get out of my pajamas. I didn't even have the will to take care of myself because he made me feel so worthless.

So...if you're asking yourself this question, I agree that it's time to do something. Being strong enough to recognize emotional abuse is a huge part of the battle.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 8:42:03 PM   
sweetlilcute


Posts: 26
Joined: 5/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlilcute

Where do you draw it?

How do you know if it's M/s or emotional abuse?

Are you still in the relationship you talk about in http://www.collarchat.com/m_3666867/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#3666867? That certainly sounded dysfunctional and now that you are wondering about abuse, I think it's well past time to move on.

If you are wondering in the context of a new relationship, then it's time for some serious contemplation regarding how you are choosing people.

ETA - I read your last few posts in that other thread and really want to know if you are referring to the guy who sent you this email:

quote:

"I really don't want or expect to put you out. It's not clear to Rose or Me what it is you really want or need. Please just bring your house key, chastity belt, locks and keys and any other item of service to my house on the 22nd of may, we will talk then. Please do not come and clean our house, do not feed baroness as she is taken care of. You are released from coming to (someone's) birthday party on Saturday.
After I am done working 15 hour days the rest of may we can discuss your future and what you want. "


If you went back to him after that YOU are abusing YOURSELF.




Ug, reading that over again makes me shudder.
No, I did not go back with him

After I tried breaking it up with him nicely... he retorted by saying that I have a mean side to me, it's very mean and dark and he's afraid it won't just go away with maturity it's just part of my fiber.

He then said he does not belive that I truly loved him.... that it was just attention and affection and obsession I was feeling...
Which hurt... because i did love him. A lot. It's why i stayed with him through months of barely getting any attention or affection... so don't really understand why he thought that when i barely got enough. Not nearly enough to call me obsessed was lucky if I saw him more than once a month?

I told him i didn't like it when he called me schizophrenic and I know i'm not. He's the only one who called me that
and crazy
and a bitch
and selfish
said i was a negative person
....list goes on and on. He said " i was joking ... can't you take a joke? you have no sense of humor".... making it all my fault ...yet once again. He denied ever calling me a bitch and said i may have said you are acting " bitchy" big difference.. and i know he had called me a bitch before. Twice if not more.

He constantly brought me down would say 3 really mean things and then one really nice thing to make me feel a bit better. i loved him so i'd forget all the mean things.
This is just some stuff. Either way i felt like i didn't know right from wrong anymore.
He'd do things to make me extremely dependent on him... then threaten to leave me ... or even cut off contact for 2 weeks and then punish me if i tried to contact him.
And, i notice now... leaving me drunk in my car alone that one night because him and rose "wanted time together" (even though they got every day of the week together and said they could relax with me there )... there is no excuse. He was the one who it was his idea to have me drink. They were both bullying me so i took shots. They should of at least taken me to their house and let me sleep on their couch. i served him for more than a year.... i was his 'little baby slave' ....he didn't give a fuck to protect me when the time actually called for it and it wasn't just 'play' . And.. yet i STILL tried to make it work after that.

If i told him " i don't understand how you can say one thing that's really nice and turn around and say something that makes me feel really bad" he said ... " that's not problem you decide how you take what i say... either negative or positive i don't have control over how you take what i say" ... and then i felt bad again.. like it was my fault or thinking badly and being sad when he said something that was kind of mean and made me feel bad...

WTF?!!?!? That's him NOT taking responsibility for his own mean actions.

Just hurt after the breakup ... bashing me telling me i didn't love him, that i'm a mean person... etc...

i noticed i didn't actually love him... i loved the illusion he set himself up to be that he said he would be. I didn't love the real him. That's what made it hard, you fall in love with that illusion it's hard to let go sometimes and see the real thing.

And.. then i get worried that maybe this was all part of M/s??? and gaining control over me??? That all relationships are like this? That a man can't have any mental control without playing these games??? just made me confused.


So why I asked this question...you all are really helping me. Thank you... i feel really wounded from the relationship, after getting myself out of it I saw how bad of a relationship I was in.

When he physically abused his ex slave... i was so brainwashed he said " don't worry i'd never do that to you or rose.." i was like " oh ok... " ... but truth is.. if he does that to just one person he is capable of doing it again, to anyone. Just really scary things I went through and it's more scary that I was so brainwashed.

And, I don't know what to do... do I warn people in the community? He is already not well liked... I just feel a bit... scared now...

(in reply to kalikshama)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 9:09:13 PM   
keechoo


Posts: 15
Joined: 1/12/2009
Status: offline 		Just walk away. If someone brings his name up to you then go ahead and tell them. He's not your problem anymore. That is what his type do, just like my ex (who is vanilla). My Master is nothing like him and if I see an inkling of it I will be out. It is best to lose contact with him otherwise he will find a way to slither back into your life even if he claims he wants nothing to do with you. Congrats for leaving! It's the best thing you can do for yourself!

(in reply to sweetlilcute)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 9:46:26 PM   
sweetlilcute


Posts: 26
Joined: 5/9/2011
Status: offline 		ya.. i hope it was so hard.


i only felt like i knew how to feel with him in my life, know that's stupid but he really got a hold on me...mentally. I feel really fucked with ... but at the same time sometimes i fetl loved... but then i don't understand why he'd treat me like shit sometimes and make my self esteem so low...so low. never thought it could be that low.

From him calling me negative and selfish and all this stuff... i got extremely depressed. I almost flunked 2 of my classes.

No matter what i did it was almost my fault, or i was crazy or a bitch or something or too sensitive. Whatever it was. it was always, always my fault :(.

i don't understand why i miss him.. guess i just miss being controlled and being someones. but i didn't want that kind of control.

And ya... people know of him. having me gave him credibility unlike his other slave.... i will speak up if someone asks. I think being quiet about it gives the abuser power.

I just can't believe I was stupid enough to get into something like that in the first place, i just had no idea. At all.

I feel really hurt. I feel like I really have to heal and I am so careful about M/s now.. if i should even have a relationship like that? which hurts because i get so much pleasure out of submitting.. i really do.

(in reply to keechoo)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 9:48:07 PM   
sweetlilcute


Posts: 26
Joined: 5/9/2011
Status: offline 		Half of the time i can only remember good times and feel like an idiot for ending it...

i literally have to call up a friend and be like .." why did i break up with him again?"

and they have to go through everything he did again. Just while he was doing it i was in denial even.. i wanted to believe the best... i loved the guy... he was my first for everything... i truly did love him with all my heart. I devoted all of me to him... my whole heart and soul i really did. It really crushed me. I wonder if i was just too sensitive or if it really was emotional abuse?

(in reply to sweetlilcute)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 10:17:32 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetlilcute

Where do you draw it?



As is always the case, it depends on the people involved, as everyone's "line" is drawn at different places, with said "line" shifting with different people.


quote:



How do you know if it's M/s or emotional abuse?



I define "abuse" as that which one has not consented to.  Thus, it's not abuse if there's consent -- which includes consensual non-consent.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to sweetlilcute)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The line between M/s and emotional abuse? - 6/1/2011 10:19:10 PM   
hausboy


Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi LafayetteLady

I didn't take your post the wrong way--but you've asked the question about the "high proportion" of dysfunctional relationships I've witnessed, so I'll answer it.

It has a lot less to do with BDSM and a lot more to do with my own personal history and the "company" I've kept.  Many of my circle of friends were addicts/alcoholics.....or in recovery and had a long history of being an addict and/or an alcoholic.  I myself have been in recovery for 19 years.  (my first "home" group--for you non-12 step folks, that means, my primary AA meeting that I went to for several years) was a BDSM/leather specific AA group, so we had two common denominators, and it was nice to have a place where we could openly share about all aspects of our lives.

So not surprisingly, many of us in recovery have either witnessed abuse...suffered abuse...abused others....or co-dependently attempt to "rescue" others from abuse.

In response to the other part of your reply--I do understand your point about people potentially defending an abusive partner--I'm actually of the camp that when someone has to go online and post "is this person right for me?" the answer is usually pretty obvious.  and rarely what the person may want to hear.

Yet I do know a few couples where I just shake my head and can't believe they are actually happy in their current dynamic--but they swear they are, so I suppose it's just plain none of my business if I don't think it's healthy. 

You did make me re-think one thing for certain--I have always said that I would never stay in a relationship where I wasn't happy--and yet the last few years of my marriage were an absolute emotional roller coaster because my wife was very unhappy and my own head was too far up my own ass to recognize what was happening.  After the divorce was finalized, my parents told me that they were glad she left me, because "she-who-must-not-be-named" treated me like a doormat.  I never saw it that way while we were together.


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 60
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