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RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/2/2011 2:44:05 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Very interesting topic Ms Pi,

First I think we need to separate needs and wants... A sub may need to study for an exam, she may want to go out to the pictures. I'd make her study then take her to the pictures after her exams.

Second we need to explore "needs"... Some people have a need to be controlled, and others have a need to control. Provided they meet someone with compatible needs you could say that everything was good.

My personal preference is for intelligent, sassy, successful subs. This isn't a value judgement, but a personal choice. All of my long term d/s relationships have been with extraordinarily smart, successful women - Because I get off on dominating extraordinarily smart, successful women. So, selfishly, if my playmate has to prep for a big conference, then I support her in that. This isn't being a service dom, this is me making sure my sub continues to be a happy, healthy, actualised human being.

I think the domly types that present as "fuck your needs, it's all about mine" fall into two categories - buffoons and crazies. The buffoons are the people that don't understand what it is to have a relationship and the crazies are the ones that really believe that shit. Now I stress, this is only my personal opinion - but there ya go.

Ultimately, to be successful and healthy the parties to it do need to have their needs given equal weight. Again, that's not in any way incoherent with a d/s dynamic, and those "needs" are going to be different.

In some relationships that equality of needs becomes so refined that the needs blend (Leadership) in others that equality manifests itself in both parties giving the other freedom to pursue interests / hobbies (VC's parents).

I do occasionally worry though, when I see someone who appears to have major self-worth issues that manifest themselves in a perceived "need" to be abused matching up with one of the crazies I referred to above. The crazy dude (probably bullied by girls at school) has developed a rather pathetic fear/hatred of women that manifests itself in a desire to abuse them needs therapy - not a victim. And the sub who has such awful self-worth issues that she feels a need to be abused needs therapy, not an abuser.







_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/2/2011 4:21:04 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Yes he gives me certain things at certain times when I request them or when he feels I need them but he is not in any way catering to me.


Can you clarify, exactly, what IS happening if he is not catering to you?

Cater:
1-2 (involved food service... not relevant)
3. Provide with what is needed or required: "the school caters to children with learning difficulties"
4. Try to satisfy (a particular need or demand)

It seems to match the dictionary definitions flawlessly.


He's doing them because it's still about him and not me..he's doing them because he wants to do them because in the end it's going to pay off for him. He knows that a broken slave is a useless slave. Do you cater to your car when you fill it up with gas and change its oil? Or doing it because if your car is not running then how are you going to get to work?



(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/2/2011 4:41:44 PM   
HeatherMcLeather


Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline 		When Hanners and I first got together, I really did think all I needed was her. Obviously I wasn't being realistic. Hanners not only allowed me to develop outside interests, she practically insisted. She introduced me to friends and acquaintances my age and urged me to do things with them. When I expressed an interest in dinosaurs one day, that weekend we went to the Museum of Nature, and since I loved the place, we go regularly (to the point that she is considering buying a membership), even though she finds it pretty boring, she says my excitement and happiness at being there is so obvious that she enjoys the visits.

So the way I see it is that by indulging me on these things, she is in fact being dominant and putting her wants and happiness first. If I am happy, then I will be a better slave. I will be better able to focus on her, because I'm not having feelings of being deprived, or of missing something important to me. I will simply be a more pleasant and cheerful person to be around, I'll be in a better, more positive frame of mind when faced with tasks/demands I do not enjoy in and of themselves.


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/2/2011 6:12:40 PM   
flotsamNjetsam


Posts: 1
Joined: 6/2/2011
Status: offline 		OP reply: I thought this was a really interesting question.

For us... there is balance. I, the Dominant, do sometimes invest my time and energy into things that I would otherwise not care about for my dear one's benefit. I also encourage him to explore himself and his interests independently and to seek friendship with individuals who have similar interests. For me... the balance is important so that we can have some autonomy and space from one another but not just that.... I think I'd be worn out and lose enthusiasm if I devoted much more of myself to that which I'm not interested in. He, perhaps naturally, is more inclined to invest himself in things that are more 'my' interests but I don't tend to insist that he embrace them all with my vigor.

I don't think it takes away from my Dominance to give him, sometimes, what he wants - even if it occasionally conflicts with what I want. It is my philosophy that it takes strength and self empowerment in order to be flexible and generous. The important thing to me is less about arbitrary denial and more about knowing how he'd react to me refusing what he wants. He'd be calm, accepting and respectful 19 times out of 20. (He'd be calm and respectful 20 out of 20, of course, just less instantly accepting) Because we've established this dynamic I know he appreciates what I do and respects my authority in the relationship. For fun or for practical reasons, I'll deny him things... but again there is balance. I think it's important for me to be aware of what adds to and takes away from his quality of life and consumes the energy to sustain himself in the D/s relationship which, being TPE, is pretty intense psychologically and physically.

One of the most important things to me is that WE thrive but not just us as a couple... us individually. I want him to thrive. I want to thrive. As the Dominant, my perspective of this doesn't equate authoritarianism and rule-making to be my sole objective as a Dominant but rather a responsibility to care for our lives and guide us toward an uplifted quality of life. He doesn't dictate what that is for us but my sense of ethics and my respect for him means I involve him in the decision making process, as needed. I didn't just choose him because he'll do or not do what I say... but rather because I value and respect him as human being. As such it just makes logical sense to, on occasion, participate directly where I would otherwise, on my own- not. As a result, his happiness has the potential to make our lives better and so I invest myself in it as well.

---Flotsam

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/2/2011 6:14:34 PM   
lovelyesme


Posts: 31
Joined: 1/26/2011
Status: offline
quote:

If someone decides that it would unDomly to not give me those things, they are gone. If a vanilla guy decided to not give me those things I need to thrive, he is gone as well.


Just that.  If that  makes me less a "real submissive"-ah well.  I submit to One Who Dominates-i can't be dominated if my needs-including those that allow me to thrive-aren't met....
esme

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/2/2011 7:04:36 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
Do you cater to your car when you fill it up with gas and change its oil? Or doing it because if your car is not running then how are you going to get to work?

Actually, the funny thing is I damned near posted that exact example before I tried to whittle it down to the main question.

I get what your saying it's just a radical, radical difference in our relationships. Carol is not even remotely in the same class to me as "my car". There are way more pressing reasons I take care of her than simply "she'll stop functioning if I don't" -- which is exactly why my desire to nurture, care for, and protect her would not in any way abate if she stopped obeying.

What I have to admit though is that I don't really understand the internal workings of your sort of relationship. I'm gonna need to find someone local who sees it similarly and have a nice long coffee table discussion. That should be very enlightening.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 2:46:10 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		I've been so busy at work and with time differences and such, I find that people ask the questions I'm thinking and then there is a response, etc.  It's not that I don't read and have responses, folks.  It's that circumstances have gotten in the way.  However, y'all have really kept this a fascinating read.  Thank you so much.

What I've come to realize throught this (so far)... is
There are - as I've counted thus far - three kinds of relationships.
The ones where the dominant
1.  says "you can't do this because it makes you happy, and if you are focused on your happiness, you are not focusing on me, and you will become spoiled if you get what you want (which by the way is the kind of post that prompted this thread).
2.  says, "meh, I just want you to work right, so I'll let you do what you seem to need so you can do what I want you to do."
and
3.  says, "I love seeing you happy.  I'm so lucky to have a happy partner." 

That about cover it?
best,
sunshine


_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 3:54:20 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		And a bunch of variations of the three.......

A lot of the time it something like "I've got to do this and you've got to do that, neither is terribly thrilled, but we do it because it is what is best for the relationship and all concerned." Or some variation of that.

I am less concerned with whatever may or may not make any one person happy in a given moment. I am always looking at the big picture and what is best for all, long term.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 4:21:02 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm a little late coming into this one.  I also have something of a different view.  Probably the most similar to LaT and ML. 

A lot of what's been stated on this thread is a bit different when it comes to poly.  When there are more than two people to consider, you have to start looking at where the priorities lie.  Often, you have to look at who has the highest importance in what is going on in comparison to everyone else.  Is it more important to go to a family function or have a bottom (ok, the bottom that I prefer) at the demo?  Part of this is about evaluating where these things fall on the scale and then making the decision about which is the most appropriate choice.

I have to admit, from a lot of things that I read around here, it wouldn't surprise Me if the 'areas to thrive' wouldn't be pushed to the point where it became, "but I nnnnneeeeedddddd a candy bar a day' to thrive.  There's hasn't been a whole lot on the thread about when it really does just start becoming the submissive running the show. 

When clip's here, the time for the dynamic is prioritized higher because we've gone through such long periods of where that wasn't an option.  There isn't much that gets a higher precedence because there's more than enough time for the outside interests when we're in different locations. 

However, even if My primary relationship were a power dynamic (it's not) I'm just not the type of person who does absolutely everything with a partner to make them happy.  It really depends a lot on how much of his happy stacks up to My level of unhappy.  The same goes the other way around.  We do a lot of our social events together, but we're also perfectly ok with having our independent interactions with others, too.  We also have our independent interests, which is good because each of us has that desire to have some time just to have our 'alone' time (singular).  Yes, please do go play golf and I'll be happy to occupy Myself doing something that I want to do that you don't particularly like.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 8:15:22 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		The seems to be mindset that to Thrive as a Relationship you need to care for the individual... both there needs and wants. There is some truth in that but there is also another path.

To thrive as an individual you need to take care of the Relationship. Sometimes the very functioning of the relationship is what allows an individual to thrive and be happy. For the most part, that is how it works for the three of us. We do not work from the individual first to build the whole... we take care of the whole to feed the individuals.

Like LP... I will look at the various options and priortize what is best for the Relationship. It is the focus of all us three.. .that decision may result in an indivdual giving up on a few wants here or there and even putting a few needs on hold on rare circustances.

I suppose some look at a relationship to serve their needs and wants... but we look to serve the needs and wants of the relationship. I kinda of think that is why we three are so successful in what many struggle at with regards to a poly dynamic.

A further note.... as the Master of this relationship... I have one want above all others.... the thriving of our relationship! I do what it takes to make that happen!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 2:44:29 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have to admit, from a lot of things that I read around here, it wouldn't surprise Me if the 'areas to thrive' wouldn't be pushed to the point where it became, "but I nnnnneeeeedddddd a candy bar a day' to thrive. 

You mean you don't????

luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 2:54:01 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		LaT, I agree with you that a diet based on cigarettes, soda and candy is unhealthy. But do you drink coffee? If so, why are you allowed the drug of your choice in a hot form but deny her the same in cold? Because when I get a diet coke, it's for the caffeine. I don't drink coffee but that doesn't mean I don't get tired and need the boost from the caffeine to finish the day out.The same as you may need a midmorning coffee break, or a late afternoon one.

And although I rarely get a candy bar, if someone said I was never going to have one again, in the 30 odd years of life left to me, I'd scratch him off my list. Having one once a month is something different than total denial for no reason.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 3:53:31 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		The Needs of a Submissive to Thrive -
(well this one anyway)

I need attention - given and received
I need to feel safe
I need to be able to laugh and enjoy life
I need art
I need relationships with people
I need to show love as an action
I need to enjoy the world around me
I need to feel successful
I need to be visible and heard and be able to see and hear the one I am with
I need to write and be creative
I need to move my body - dance, riding a bike, etc.
I need work that gives me fulfillment
I need to interact with the people I love
I need time alone
I need intellectual stimulation
I need to touch and be touched
I need to learn

What I want but don't need
Plants
Pets
Music most of the time
Yummy smells
(this is a hard list - things that really  make me happy but that I don't NEED to THRIVE but they do help me to thrive)

Most of the rest is gravy

Do I need those things every day?  No.  Do I need them frequently?  Yes.  Am I willing to sacrifice my NEEDS for a time for the greater good?  Yes, of course.  Am I willing to sacrifice for a long or indeterminate time the opportunity to thrive?  No.  I've learned my lesson there.

Above is my personal list.  Everyone will have a different list.  Moving far away has made it necessary for me to be clear about what I NEED to thrive / to live.  I've had the luxury of thinking this through.  I don't think that anything on my list (and yes, I'm making a rare PERSONAL appearance here)... is particularly inappropriate or out of line.  I've been involved with people from the past who took away the things that I NEED.  That just broke my spirit.  If someone believes that I am "topping from the bottom" or that I am "running the show" because I know what I need and I respect the needs of my spirit, then that person is not the one for me.  I suppose I need someone who trusts me and knows that I'm speaking the truth.  

best,
sunshine

< Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 6/3/2011 4:22:02 PM >

_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 8:06:48 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

rather than hijack another thread...

Hello Folks,
There are certain things people need. I MUST have a, b, and c in order to be a functioning adult. I NEED x, y, and z to thrive. These are two different places on the line. AB and C are givens, hard limits of the positive variety. These can be things like - I need control over my work, my kids, my medical care for example. (What diabetic is going to allow a dom to dictate their regimen when the dom doesn't understand and doesn't care to learn? A suicidal one, that's what one). There are also emotional things some people require in order to maintain as a healthy, functioning adult - for example, an extrovert NEEDS other people. Most people NEED some time alone.

Let's take it as a given that there are certain things a person NEEDS in order to be a functioning human - beyond food and water and sleep. And let's just, for the sake of argument, say that the person does indeed get them in the relationship. The extrovert s-type gets to spend time with friends, is involved in several group activities, etc. That's all good.

Here comes the question (yes, there is one).

At what point does the s-types non-needs, but the things that are needed to THRIVE... where do they come into the relationship for you? Several of the people in (what I consider) healthy, long-term relationships discuss their perspective as more about the relationship, maintaining it over what they whimsically want. Sometimes a D-type will do something just to make their S-type happy. To me that does not make them LESS domly, it makes them more realistic. It would make someone a good partner in my mind.

However, I often see people posting things that say "you aren't being the dominant if you are giving the sub what they want". What? It's not always that overt, but it is an undercurrent. My perspective is that you have chosen to be with someone. In every relationship people MUST compromise to some degree - both in the moment and at times for the long term. The D-type is NOT always the most important person in the relationship. This is obvious for things like if the s-type is sick or incapacitated or something. But what about where the s-type needs things to THRIVE emotionally?

The only analogy I can come up with is - if I work in a lab because it's the only job I can get, I can do fine with it, but if I were designing costumes because that is where my talent and passion are, then I would rather do that and THRIVE. I don't want merely to survive, I want to LIVE! While writing this the idea of Matt Damon's character in Good Will Hunting came to mind - a janitor at MIT. He did fine as a janitor, but it was when he interacted with others that were as smart as he that he began to thrive. And by the way, Robin Williams' character actually said something to him ... sure, you can do that, but look at where you are being a janitor - the morst prestigious, intellectual school. Hmmmm. (paraphrasing)

Where is that line for the D-types about supporting the things that are not your thing but will make the s-type happy? I'm not talking about watching the ball game while your partner makes jewelry - that's parallel. I'm talking about doing the thing you don't particularly care for in order to make the s-type happy. For example, your s-type wants to .... loves ballroom dancing, and you don't. You actually dislike it. It is an activity that requires 2 people. Will you dance with your s-type just to bring your partner some happiness? How often? Or will you allow someone else to bring that joy to your s-type? Or will you require your s-type to forgo the thing that brings them passion in order to bring you pleasure or less discomfort?

Feel free to expand upon the question itself. I'm not sure it 100% asks exactly what I'm looking for, but it's in the ballpark.

best,
sunshine


ETA: And let's forgo the whole "well a smart dom would not try to take over the medical needs if they didn't understand it." I'm gonna presume real life interactions here, realistic people. Mmm kay?


Hey babeeee

I was confused after the first sentence hop yer ass onna plane. Crawl into bed and splain this stuff to me like the smoking Hot bitch that you are.

BadOne


_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/3/2011 9:31:53 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Well Bad One,

I suspect that If I crawled into bed with your hot self there wouldn't be a lot of talking going on exceptin... "please please please ... can I please please please..." ...

I could be wrong.  Maybe you have a point... An experiment may be in order!

sunshine


_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/4/2011 7:27:42 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

LaT, I agree with you that a diet based on cigarettes, soda and candy is unhealthy. But do you drink coffee? If so, why are you allowed the drug of your choice in a hot form but deny her the same in cold? Because when I get a diet coke, it's for the caffeine. I don't drink coffee but that doesn't mean I don't get tired and need the boost from the caffeine to finish the day out.The same as you may need a midmorning coffee break, or a late afternoon one.

And although I rarely get a candy bar, if someone said I was never going to have one again, in the 30 odd years of life left to me, I'd scratch him off my list. Having one once a month is something different than total denial for no reason.



Well here's the deal. Because I am an avid reader and an avid student of a healthy life style I also know the pros and cons of your diet coke and my coffee. I know that my coffee is much less toxic than your diet coke. That is number one. I also know that I don't drink my coffee for the caffeine. I drink it because I love the taste. I also know that I have, most days, only one cuppa a day. The entire rest of the day is usually only, plain H2O.

As for needing something to get through the day. I would definitely take a very good hard look at WHY a person needed a stimulant to get through the day and find other, healthy, options. For me, a few yoga moves will usually do it. Perhaps some fresh fruit, nuts, something....to perk up the blood sugar. Or a short brisk walk.

If I own/take responsibility for someone and they accept that.....they are also accepting that I am taking ownership/responsibility. If they are doing things that I believe are unhealthy, there will be changes.

You wanna whine cuz I say no fecking toxic chemical soda shit........go right ahead. My house, my rules. You want to toss it all away over a bad habit, it's your choice to leave. You (all figurative) do not get to pick and choose which rules you like and ignore the rest. You want to piss and moan about unfair.....again, too god damned bad. This isn't a democracy. You want a democratic relationship then do not pretty it up in the camoflage of an M/s relationship then toss a hissy fit when you don't like the outcome. It's really quite simple.

It is a power exchange relationship. If you choose to be the s of the M, then you've given over your power. It is why I won't go into any sort of a D/s relationship. There is too much, "I want to submit but I don't want to submit to that." In MY eyes, and MY world, that is basically a gray zone of landmines full of a lot of games that are quite destructive for the relationship and those in it.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/4/2011 7:35:01 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		ya know I don't say this often about women but....

I love you LaTigresse lol



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/4/2011 7:58:20 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

ya know I don't say this often about women but....

I love you LaTigresse lol




Awww thank you thank you! I think you might be in a limited edition group of people.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/4/2011 8:18:32 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

The Needs of a Submissive to Thrive -
(well this one anyway)

I need attention - given and received
I need to feel safe
I need to be able to laugh and enjoy life
I need art
I need relationships with people
I need to show love as an action
I need to enjoy the world around me
I need to feel successful
I need to be visible and heard and be able to see and hear the one I am with
I need to write and be creative
I need to move my body - dance, riding a bike, etc.
I need work that gives me fulfillment
I need to interact with the people I love
I need time alone
I need intellectual stimulation
I need to touch and be touched
I need to learn


This one, too. 

For us, meeting other people's expectations about what is truly domly or subly matters not one iota.  We do what works best for us as individuals and helps strengthen our relationship. 

Next time we get together, ask Firm to waltz or foxtrot with you... you'll find out just how willing he's been to make me happy. 

Want to blow a few minutes on a mind bending read?  Try this thread I started a loooong time ago along the same vein.  Of course, it appears that you are not as evil as I am. 

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: ^^Thriving S... Thriving Relationship^^ - 6/4/2011 8:26:16 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Well Bad One,

I suspect that If I crawled into bed with your hot self there wouldn't be a lot of talking going on exceptin... "please please please ... can I please please please..." ...

I could be wrong.  Maybe you have a point... An experiment may be in order!

sunshine



Dats zactly what Im talking about

BadOne


_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 60
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