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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh
The approach to drugs is an interesting discussion cause personally I think there isn't any obvious solution cept some sort of compromise. I reckon a nuanced approach is needed. States generally could be less punitive by criminalising addicts less and more mildly. Wouldn't like to see decriminalisation except for soft drugs like cannabis but da idea of legalising highly addictive drugs is pretty outlandish IMO. Folks say the War on Drugs has been lost. Maybe it has but there is no way of telling what da situation would be like with complete decriminalisation. It would probably increase serious addiction hugely. Reckon the consequences could be devastating in society especially in disadvantaged communities.

Did it ever occure to you that those who do drugs will not stop because they are illegal...that those who dont will not start because drugs become legal.
Ask yourself if heroin became legal tomorrow would you start slamming? If you would not then why would you suppose others would?

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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We were talkin' bout hard drugs so I took it to mean them all. Cocaine and especially crack is understood to be severely psychologically addictive and da symptoms may have no difference to more physically addictive drugs.

The reason for the difference in the spelling of the two words psychologically and physically is that they mean two different things, for you to claim that they are the same is disingenuous at best. Perhaps you might want to acquaint yourself with the difference between the two words before you embarass yourself further.
You also do not seem to recognize the difference between crack and coke...something else for you to research before you come asking for a prybar to remove your feet from your mouth.

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

[:D]
Maybe Butch can hook me up with her supplier...

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My point is dat coke etc. are more addictive in a shorter time than cigs or alcohol. Not physically but psychologically which mostly is no less serious.

Phychological "addiction" to coke is kinda like phycyhological addiction to sex. Yet you keep trying to equate it with physical addiction...why?


Da psychological withdrawal from cocaine is well documented as bein' far more severe than you say and has genuine physiological ramifications, some users can have heart attacks.

It would be nice if you were to validate your opinions with some of that "documentation.

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To answer your first point. Obviously folks won't stop just cause they are illegal. Secondly, there is no reason to assume a significant number won't start if they are legal.

Really...what is your basis for this opinion?


Whole point of illegality is to dissuade people using.


Obviously that has not worked now has it?

My individual choices are not relevant to da subject of discussion. This is a discussion relating to da society as a whole.

The question was directed at you because you seem a typical individual...so if you would not start why would anyone else?

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You are arguin' for no reason at all cause I didn't make those types of addiction out to be da same thing. All I said waz that they have similarities which they do,

Here are your statements...so please save your bullshit for someone else.

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My point is dat coke etc. are more addictive in a shorter time than cigs or alcohol. Not physically but psychologically which mostly is no less serious.
Da psychological withdrawal from cocaine is well documented as bein' far more severe than you say and has genuine physiological ramifications, some users can have heart attacks.

and da subject suffers regardless. Of course crack an' coke are different but are similar stimulants and both considered very addictive.

So you have no clue as to what coke or crack is.


I reckon you really need to brush up on yer readin' skills.

I read just fine but you might want to do a little research on the subject before you embarass yourself further.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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We were talkin' bout hard drugs so I took it to mean them all. Cocaine and especially crack is understood to be severely psychologically addictive and da symptoms may have no difference to more physically addictive drugs.

The reason for the difference in the spelling of the two words psychologically and physically is that they mean two different things, for you to claim that they are the same is disingenuous at best. Perhaps you might want to acquaint yourself with the difference between the two words before you embarass yourself further.
You also do not seem to recognize the difference between crack and coke...something else for you to research before you come asking for a prybar to remove your feet from your mouth.

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
[
Again it is NOT "fair to expect" results like those you argue will arise if drugs are decriminalised. They are simply not confirmed by results when drugs are decriminalised. They are negated - drug consumption has reduced in Portugal, as have adverse health outcomes (eg new HIV infections), as is reported in Scientific American here. A simple Google search is all that lies between you and this research.
Please stop assuming and projecting - the facts are freely available. Learn them - then form opinions based on facts. Spreading the myths you currently and mistakenly believe to be true is not helpful to anyone.

Tweak this is gettin' comical cause you didn't follow what I was sayin' or deliberately misunderstand. Da situation in Portugal is a little bit like what I said I would like to see where the focus of prosecution is on drug dealers but I think there should still be some minor illegality attached to possession of hard drugs. The lower deaths is largely due to avoidance of dirty needles and better treatment which I support. When talkin bout legalisation it is completely reasonable to suggest dat if hard drugs were legalised (not just decriminalised) and quite widely available, it would change da current situation regarding mortality, and change for the worse. Those drugs are highly addictive. Huge numbers of folks die from misuse of relatively safe but somewhat addictive perscription drugs. Dat trend would obviously worsen with the relatively easy availability of hard drugs with high addictiveness.

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

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ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh

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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Again it is NOT "fair to expect" results like those you argue will arise if drugs are decriminalised. They are simply not confirmed by results when drugs are decriminalised. They are negated - drug consumption has reduced in Portugal, as have adverse health outcomes (eg new HIV infections), as is reported in Scientific American here. A simple Google search is all that lies between you and this research.
Please stop assuming and projecting - the facts are freely available. Learn them - then form opinions based on facts. Spreading the myths you currently and mistakenly believe to be true is not helpful to anyone.

Tweak this is gettin' comical cause you didn't follow what I was sayin' or deliberately misunderstand. Da situation in Portugal is a little bit like what I said I would like to see where the focus of prosecution is on drug dealers but I think there should still be some minor illegality attached to possession of hard drugs. The lower deaths is largely due to avoidance of dirty needles and better treatment which I support. When talkin bout legalisation it is completely reasonable to suggest dat if hard drugs were legalised (not just decriminalised) and quite widely available, it would change da current situation regarding mortality, and change for the worse. Those drugs are highly addictive. Huge numbers of folks die from misuse of relatively safe but somewhat addictive perscription drugs. Dat trend would obviously worsen with the relatively easy availability of hard drugs with high addictiveness.

WOTF I have twice tried to tell you nicely that you do not appear to have any familiarity with the reality of drugs. I have suggested you research the area properly and learn about the facts.

As the message doesn't appear to be getting through, here it is in a very blunt form:
You haven't a clue about what you are talking about. Please learn about it then talk.

I might add that an antipathy to the facts is apparent in most of your posts no matter the topic. I am beginning to wonder if you are allergic to facts.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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My point is dat coke etc. are more addictive in a shorter time than cigs or alcohol. Not physically but psychologically which mostly is no less serious.

Phychological "addiction" to coke is kinda like phycyhological addiction to sex. Yet you keep trying to equate it with physical addiction...why?

Da psychological withdrawal from cocaine is well documented as bein' far more severe than you say and has genuine physiological ramifications, some users can have heart attacks.

It would be nice if you were to validate your opinions with some of that "documentation.

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The symptoms of cocaine withdrawal (also known as comedown or crash) range from moderate to severe: dysphoria, depression, anxiety, psychological and physical weakness, pain and compulsive craving.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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To answer your first point. Obviously folks won't stop just cause they are illegal. Secondly, there is no reason to assume a significant number won't start if they are legal.
Really...what is your basis for this opinion?

Whole point of illegality is to dissuade people using.

Obviously that has not worked now has it?

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My individual choices are not relevant to da subject of discussion. This is a discussion relating to da society as a whole.

The question was directed at you because you seem a typical individual...so if you would not start why would anyone else?

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You are arguin' for no reason at all cause I didn't make those types of addiction out to be da same thing. All I said waz that they have similarities which they do,

Here are your statements...so please save your bullshit for someone else.

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My point is dat coke etc. are more addictive in a shorter time than cigs or alcohol. Not physically but psychologically which mostly is no less serious.
Da psychological withdrawal from cocaine is well documented as bein' far more severe than you say and has genuine physiological ramifications, some users can have heart attacks.

and da subject suffers regardless. Of course crack an' coke are different but are similar stimulants and both considered very addictive.

So you have no clue as to what coke or crack is.

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ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
The reason for the difference in the spelling of the two words psychologically and physically is that they mean two different things, for you to claim that they are the same is disingenuous at best. Perhaps you might want to acquaint yourself with the difference between the two words before you embarass yourself further.

Indeed. People don't die from withdrawals from psychologically addictive drugs. Unlike the drug of choice of the West, EtOH.

And I despise the word "legalization". It should be "relegalization".

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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BTW that same ounce of coke can cost $3-400 here. It's not fair!

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the gram of coke that cost $100 in 1983, now costs $50. Does that count?

Since there are 28 grams in an ounce it would appear that blow down under is pretty cheap

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ORIGINAL: MasterDoc1
While I haven't been following the discussion, a few facts should be inserted.
Alcohol withdrawal (untreated) carries one of the highest death rates for withdrawal from any drug (around 2%) if not aggressively treated. Those numbers are as reported in the link above from wantsoftheflesh. The only drug I can think of with higher death rates is barbituates.

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Only 5% of patients with ethanol withdrawal progress to delirium tremens (DT).
Mortality/Morbidity
The mortality rate for delirium tremens may be as high as 35% if untreated but is less than 5% with early recognition and treatment.

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Not sure that these are key points re relegalization, however, to me it is about freedom and self-determination more than anything else.

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Its a bit pathetic I reckon.

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This is where your reading comprehension skills come into doubt. Where in those sentences does it prove that I don't know what stimulants like crack and coke are?

Perhaps then you might tell us the primary difference between coke and crack?

They are stimulants usually classed together by experts cause of some distinct similarities. Thats what I already said. How da fuck is that inaccu

Since you do not seem to know the difference between crack and coke it makes it quite difficult for you to say anything on the subject that is not inacurate

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Illegality hasn't stopped drug use but it has obviously hampered it.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Its a bit pathetic I reckon.

The only thing pathetic is your ignorance about what is being discussed in this forum.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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This is where your reading comprehension skills come into doubt. Where in those sentences does it prove that I don't know what stimulants like crack and coke are?
Perhaps then you might tell us the primary difference between coke and crack?
They are stimulants usually classed together by experts cause of some distinct similarities. Thats what I already said. How da fuck is that inaccu
Since you do not seem to know the difference between crack and coke it makes it quite difficult for you to say anything on the subject that is not inacurate

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Illegality hasn't stopped drug use but it has obviously hampered it.

Then you should have no trouble posting how much drug use has been curtailed in this country by the illegality of drugs.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Perhaps then you might tell us the primary difference between coke and crack?

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Illegality hasn't stopped drug use but it has obviously hampered it.

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Obviously that would be impossible to say

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Illegality hasn't stopped drug use but it has obviously hampered it.

Then you should have no trouble posting how much drug use has been curtailed in this country by the illegality of drugs.

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Obviously that would be impossible to say

Sorta begs the question "why did you say it if it was,as you say, "impossible to say".
Perhaps if you were to go to google and look this stuff up then you could come back here and actually have a discussion where you had some idea of what you were talking about.