RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs

RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 10:27:18 AM)
quote: But if you can walk in the corner store and buy it then does the turf wars and shootings on the corners over who does the selling continue? Nope, they find new things to kill each other over. Do we continue with armed gangs who purchase ever powerful weapons with drug money? No, they just find other sources, but unless you remove the cause for the hate, it won't go away.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 11:21:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle There is no need to assume anything at all. Assuming things is guaranteed route to error. This area has been researched to the nth degree. Virtually all the studies point in the same direction. What you do need to do is, after thoroughly researching the issue, is to define your goals. The area can be seen as a health issue, a legal issue, a moral issue ...... Each view will generate a different goal. For me it's primarily a health issue and the goal of public policy should be about maximising public health and minimising deaths. If you agree with this perspective, it makes no sense whatsoever to maintain totally discredited policies such as prohibition. The only question is what form should decriminalisation take? Tweak it is reasonable to assume that drugs like cocaine/crack, ecstacy etc. will have higher incidents of addiction than alcohol or fags. I don't support complete prohibition as my earlier posts make clear, there is a case to be made bout pot... GMAFB. How can you even give credence to her asinine numbers? The NUMBER of deaths is irrelevant, its the number of deaths per user that is.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 11:35:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Actually, cocaine and freebase are a case in point where your assumption is wrong. Most of the medical research indicates that coke (and similar synthetic uppers ) don't cause a physical dependence with anything like the same ease as booze or tobacco. Well then I guess all the stories about lives derailed by these substances which are regarded as highly addictive are grossly exaggerated. lol quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Tweak it is reasonable to assume that drugs like cocaine/crack, ecstacy etc. will have higher incidents of addiction than alcohol or fags. I don't support complete prohibition as my earlier posts make clear, there is a case to be made bout pot... GMAFB. How can you even give credence to her asinine numbers? The NUMBER of deaths is irrelevant, its the number of deaths per user that is. Yeah the deaths per user would be relevant, don't have statistics for these tho.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 11:43:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Actually, cocaine and freebase are a case in point where your assumption is wrong. Most of the medical research indicates that coke (and similar synthetic uppers ) don't cause a physical dependence with anything like the same ease as booze or tobacco. Well then I guess all the stories about lives derailed by these substances which are regarded as highly addictive are grossly exaggerated. lol quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Tweak it is reasonable to assume that drugs like cocaine/crack, ecstacy etc. will have higher incidents of addiction than alcohol or fags. I don't support complete prohibition as my earlier posts make clear, there is a case to be made bout pot... GMAFB. How can you even give credence to her asinine numbers? The NUMBER of deaths is irrelevant, its the number of deaths per user that is. Yeah the deaths per user would be relevant, don't have statistics for these tho. Im sure they are around. And deaths is a minor part of the picture anyway. There are economic and societal costs to addiction/dependence as well. Psychological dependence is actually more onerous than physical addiction (although addiction is usually accompanied by psychological dependence) because it is far harder to "cure", if there even is such a thing.

mnottertail -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 11:43:59 AM)
And you are ever unlikely to have good numbers. We know that many users don't die, and many users do not go to prison. They are reasonably uncountable and invisible. Then you have to deal with occasionals to addicts. What if you didn't inhale? (LOLOLOL). We find dead users primarily because they become exteremly inert and begin to produce offensive odors at some point, this makes for a relatively straighforward count of that subset.

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 12:51:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy GMAFB. How can you even give credence to her asinine numbers? The NUMBER of deaths is irrelevant, its the number of deaths per user that is. quote: Yeah the deaths per user would be relevant, don't have statistics for these tho. Im sure they are around. And deaths is a minor part of the picture anyway. There are economic and societal costs to addiction/dependence as well. Psychological dependence is actually more onerous than physical addiction (although addiction is usually accompanied by psychological dependence) because it is far harder to "cure", if there even is such a thing. Your correct bout death being just part of the picture, similar to a point I made bout the quality of life/health etc. If we are to talk about da revenue legalising drugs will bring in then what about the cost of having a significant number of additional members of da population living with seriously compromised health? Huge taxes from fags hardly cover the cost of related illnesses in other countries. Yeah the psychological side is tough for anyone who knows the hell of quittin' heavy cig use. Took me about five years to quit. lol quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And you are ever unlikely to have good numbers. We know that many users don't die, and many users do not go to prison. They are reasonably uncountable and invisible. Then you have to deal with occasionals to addicts. What if you didn't inhale? (LOLOLOL). We find dead users primarily because they become exteremly inert and begin to produce offensive odors at some point, this makes for a relatively straighforward count of that subset. Correct, must be near impossible to quantify the numbers due to illegality but can't da quacks tell they're dead before they smell? I remember though stories about massive levels of mortality due to drug overdoses, something like 30,000+ in 2006 alone, much of which were not classics like cocaine and heroin but relatively safe addictive happy medications bought throu da black market. This has implications for full scale decriminalisation and is partly what worries me bout the idea. BTW I fucking well inhaled, don't say otherwise! [:D]

servinggirlwntd -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 1:31:00 PM)
So many people on here decry our war on drugs! And I totally agree! Drug laws kill MANY more people and destroy more lives than drugs do! Now all of you who oppose our insane drug laws: wouldn't it be nice to have a president who has consistently opposed all federal drug laws? Where could we find such a man? Oh wait...he is running for president RIGHT NOW. And I will have the pleasure of voting for him. His name? RON PAUL.

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 1:47:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Actually, cocaine and freebase are a case in point where your assumption is wrong. Most of the medical research indicates that coke (and similar synthetic uppers ) don't cause a physical dependence with anything like the same ease as booze or tobacco. Well then I guess all the stories about lives derailed by these substances which are regarded as highly addictive are grossly exaggerated. lol Yes, they are. In most cases these stories are told by self destructive wankers eager to blame their personal weakness and incapability of running their lives on something else.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 1:54:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi But if you can walk in the corner store and buy it then does the turf wars and shootings on the corners over who does the selling continue? Nope, they find new things to kill each other over. Do we continue with armed gangs who purchase ever powerful weapons with drug money? No, they just find other sources, but unless you remove the cause for the hate, it won't go away. Of course bundles of rose petals will suddenly be worth thousands. [8\|]

tj444 -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 3:10:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 Of course bundles of rose petals will suddenly be worth thousands. [8\|] well, anything is possible I suppose. [8\|] There was a tulip bulb mania in the 1600s. "At the peak of the mania, a single tulip bulb was selling for the equivalent of an unthinkable $150,000" http://www.pfadvice.com/2006/04/22/investing-mania-lessons-of-the-tulip-bulb/ I like tulips but not that much. [8\|]

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 3:20:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 I like tulips but not that much. [8\|] Depends on her shade of lipstick and how she uses them.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 5:44:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Actually, cocaine and freebase are a case in point where your assumption is wrong. Most of the medical research indicates that coke (and similar synthetic uppers ) don't cause a physical dependence with anything like the same ease as booze or tobacco. Well then I guess all the stories about lives derailed by these substances which are regarded as highly addictive are grossly exaggerated. lol Yes, they are. In most cases these stories are told by self destructive wankers eager to blame their personal weakness and incapability of running their lives on something else. I recently watched a documnetary on Netflix which followed 8 people from Med school, through residency, to their final practices. The ER doc stated that the most destructive drug he has seen, BY FAR, is EtOH. Most so-called "drug deaths" are due to polydrug use, primarily alcohol and benzodiazepines. Prescription drugs kill about twice as many people per annum than all illegal drugs combined. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/graphs/25.htm Although I currently only take prescription drugs, and a couple of our very fine American craft beers, I do not recognize any government's moral authority to regulate what I can or cannot put into my body.

tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 6:28:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh Tweak it is reasonable to assume that drugs like cocaine/crack, ecstacy etc. will have higher incidents of addiction than alcohol or fags. I don't support complete prohibition as my earlier posts make clear, there is a case to be made bout pot... GMAFB. How can you even give credence to her asinine numbers? The NUMBER of deaths is irrelevant, its the number of deaths per user that is. Why are "my" numbers credible? For a start, they're not 'my' numbers at all. I simply quoted them. The numbers were produced by the Australian Government. As the link I supplied clearly proves (if you can be bothered to read it - pages 34-5). As a matter of habit, I back up my claims with links to the sources so that readers can verify for themselves the facts I present. It's standard academic practice for precisely this reason. It greatly boosts the credibility of anything I present. It shows people I am honest and open. It allows readers to differentiate between the (linked substantiated) facts I present and wild (unlinked, unsubstantiated, usually false) claims you make. This is a very good habit, one you ought to consider adopting Willbur. If you start supplying links to your sources, it will greatly boost the credibility of any claim you make. And credibility is something that your posts both sorely lack and desperately need. Everyone else will appreciate it . You might even be believed occasionally - won't that be a change for the better! [:D]

WantsOfTheFlesh -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 7:59:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead Actually, cocaine and freebase are a case in point where your assumption is wrong. Most of the medical research indicates that coke (and similar synthetic uppers ) don't cause a physical dependence with anything like the same ease as booze or tobacco. Well then I guess all the stories about lives derailed by these substances which are regarded as highly addictive are grossly exaggerated. lol Yes, they are. In most cases these stories are told by self destructive wankers eager to blame their personal weakness and incapability of running their lives on something else. lol aren't you a great man for da tea an' sympathy? X: "I lost my health, my career my family, friends, my home to da scourge of smack", M: "watta weak self destructive wanker!" quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster I recently watched a documnetary on Netflix which followed 8 people from Med school, through residency, to their final practices. The ER doc stated that the most destructive drug he has seen, BY FAR, is EtOH. Most so-called "drug deaths" are due to polydrug use, primarily alcohol and benzodiazepines. Prescription drugs kill about twice as many people per annum than all illegal drugs combined. http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/graphs/25.htm Although I currently only take prescription drugs, and a couple of our very fine American craft beers, I do not recognize any government's moral authority to regulate what I can or cannot put into my body. Be interesting to know da stats on polydrug deaths but yeh they are very dangerous. I read somewhere that cocaine was da drug with the highest cause of attendance in casualty departments in the late 90's. Nearly 40,000 died in 2007 from drug related deaths, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/736462 and you're correct most were misuse of perscription drugs. Yet we are talking bout decriminalising hard drugs so that statistic could easily change. Even if it didn't, where highly addictive hard drugs are legalised it seems fair to expect that drug consumption for non-medical considerations will still hugely increase. It'lll make da drug mortality situation far worse IMO. Bah, crafts are still domestics lol.

JstAnotherSub -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 8:01:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 What have we accomplished? Without going into any specifics or sources whatsoever, it has recently come to my attention that despite decades of inflation, the gram of coke that cost $100 in 1983, now costs $50. Does that count? [sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]

slvemike4u -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 9:19:20 PM)
To tell you the truth I have stopped caring.I am way past the point where my drug use could ever bring me to the attention of the authorities.....past middle aged white men can use the occasional recreational drug in this country without ever having fear of running afoul of the legal system.....lol.We simply fly(pun intended)under the radar......I have spent far too many years ignoring the idiotic drug laws of this country to give a shit as I enter the autumn of my years. Fuck'em all...I do what the fuck I want when I want...and I'm way too old to give a shit.

tweakabelle -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/2/2011 10:59:55 PM)
quote: WOTF Nearly 40,000 died in 2007 from drug related deaths, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/736462 and you're correct most were misuse of perscription drugs. Yet we are talking bout decriminalising hard drugs so that statistic could easily change. Even if it didn't, where highly addictive hard drugs are legalised it seems fair to expect that drug consumption for non-medical considerations will still hugely increase. It'lll make da drug mortality situation far worse IMO. Bah, crafts are still domestics lol. Again it is NOT "fair to expect" results like those you argue will arise if drugs are decriminalised. They are simply not confirmed by results when drugs are decriminalised. They are negated - drug consumption has reduced in Portugal, as have adverse health outcomes (eg new HIV infections), as is reported in Scientific American here. A simple Google search is all that lies between you and this research. Please stop assuming and projecting - the facts are freely available. Learn them - then form opinions based on facts. Spreading the myths you currently and mistakenly believe to be true is not helpful to anyone.

thishereboi -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/3/2011 5:00:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi But if you can walk in the corner store and buy it then does the turf wars and shootings on the corners over who does the selling continue? Nope, they find new things to kill each other over. Do we continue with armed gangs who purchase ever powerful weapons with drug money? No, they just find other sources, but unless you remove the cause for the hate, it won't go away. Of course bundles of rose petals will suddenly be worth thousands. [8\|] that has to be one of the dumbest responses you have ever given me. Are you honestly trying to claim that if they legalized drugs all the gangs would suddenly start getting along and stop breaking the law? That the only thing left for them to do would be sell flowers?

Moonhead -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/3/2011 5:06:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WantsOfTheFlesh lol aren't you a great man for da tea an' sympathy? X: "I lost my health, my career my family, friends, my home to da scourge of smack", M: "watta weak self destructive wanker!" When I did I mention smack? I was talking about cocaine, crack and amphetamine derivatives, not the heavyweight downers that actually cause a physical dependence..

hot4bondage -> RE: Global leaders call for a major shift to decriminalize drugs (6/3/2011 6:52:56 AM)
A couple of quick random points... The White House response to the report stated that drug abuse is a disease. So we're punishing people for having a disease? Alcohol prohibition was less draconian than what now passes for decriminalization. For one thing, there were exceptions for "medical" and "industrial" use. After prohibition ended, alcohol use spiked for a short time, then returned to pre-prohibition levels. There's a very informative recent book on the subject--"Last Call" by Daniel Okrent.

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