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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/5/2011 11:43:00 AM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess
It is the attorney's which appall me as they facilitate so many travesties with their morally/ethically void greed.

Attorneys often are without a conscience

And so are doctors, priests and bankers.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/19/2011 3:15:00 AM

DeviantlyD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

A long while back I remember seeing an interview with Denise Brown. She is the sister of Nicole Simpson (O.J. Simpson's ex-wife), who was viciously murdered. One part of the interview struck a chord with me and I can't help think about it now and again, especially when the news offers up some story about a violent situation. Here is an excerpt from that interview.

Denise says helping other women has helped her deal with her own anger at Simpson, at lead prosecutor Marcia Clark, even at God.

Brown: "After Nicole was murdered. I was so angry with God. I thought, how could you do this? How could you let this happen?"

She says her mother suggested that she see a minister for spiritual counseling.

Brown: "And he told me one sentence. He says, ‘Denise,’ he said, ‘It's not God's doing. It's the evil of man.’ And as soon as he said that, a load just lifted off my shoulders."

Doesn't it strike you, profoundly, how cruel we human beings can be towards each other? Don't you wish we could be more understanding, more compassionate to one another?

Conflating the butchery of one person with a societal lack of understanding and compassion makes the thread a non-starter.

That would be your opinion, of course, and not a truth.

I wasn't speaking of society, but of humanity as a whole. But even so, what happened to two people (Denise Simpson was not the only victim that night at that location) is definitely a reflection of society because, like it or not, the individual who perpetrated their deaths is part of society.

What happened to Denise Simpson is just one example of many of how human beings impose their evil onto another. There are, unfortunately, so many other examples. I find it rather dispiriting.

So, willbeurdaddy, care to address my initial question?

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess
It is the attorney's which appall me as they facilitate so many travesties with their morally/ethically void greed.

Attorneys often are without a conscience

And so are doctors, priests and bankers.

That is a far from correct blanketed statement to make. Why would you make such a clearly inaccurate generalization?

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/19/2011 10:25:42 AM

theGuideGoddess

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin
how much as people do we actually care what goes on behind closed doors, do we wait until the aftermath or do we worry about the possibility. But one thing that does come across strongly with those that moleste, they do so, because they can and convince themselves of their right, the act of power over others is a strong component.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

< Message edited by theGuideGoddess -- 6/19/2011 10:26:16 AM >

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/19/2011 2:03:07 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

Brown: "And he told me one sentence. He says, ‘Denise,’ he said, ‘It's not God's doing. It's the evil of man.’ And as soon as he said that, a load just lifted off my shoulders."

Yeah but who supposedly created the evil of man? Freewill is a bit too free there needs to be a safety. Besides the greatest killer of man is nature and who are we supposed to blame that on, the freewill of weather?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD
Doesn't it strike you, profoundly, how cruel we human beings can be towards each other? Don't you wish we could be more understanding, more compassionate to one another?

There are psychopaths, you can test for it and they are what they are, nature or nurture made them this way. They can't not kill people for their convenience/pleasure just as the average person wouldn't dream of doing such. Understanding is a foreign concept to them they have no ability for it. So I wish they didn't exist but at the same time I recognise they are quite distinct from the average person and thus we shouldn't think their actions are an accurate reflection of the society of mankind.

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 6/19/2011 2:11:49 PM >

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/19/2011 6:50:04 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess

Introspection is a very good thing. However greed is at the root of the aforementioned things. Greed is an illness not all suffer with, but are caused to suffer from.

It is the attorney's which appall me as they facilitate so many travesties with their morally/ethically void greed.

Thank you for finally defining greed for what it is - an illness. A very curable, easily curable illness that infects untold numbers of people - like an addiction and probably far more destructive. And for making a series of so-sensible points in your subsequent posts.

We can find a million ways of rationalising greed - it's part of human nature (debatable!) it's a good thing (definitely not!) it's unchangeable (def not!) it's part of God's plan (!?) it's natural (?) ....... All of which exacerbate the illness. Any ethical system (not just lawyers) that requires people to suspend their values in the chase for $ must be questionable. For instance, we might re-design our legal system to convert it to being a search for the truth rather than primarily a search for someone/something to hold responsible, an exercise in retribution.

For mine, the illness is a direct result of a value system that promotes greed, selfishness and personal wealth over the common wealth, ie. Judeo-Christian values as they have evolved in Western society.

We need to find values that don't promote perverse illnesses such as hate and greed while demonising loving the wrong person or loving them in an unapproved way. Values that promote love rather than regulating and policing it.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/19/2011 6:53:35 PM >

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/19/2011 7:58:59 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess
It is the attorney's which appall me as they facilitate so many travesties with their morally/ethically void greed.

Attorneys often are without a conscience too. That is why many of them study law, for having no inherent conscience to direct them, they require the external direction of laws to function.

I have thought that lawyers become lawyers to seek fairness and justice. I'm sure that's not the motivating force for all lawyers, but surely some started out that way.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/19/2011 8:13:30 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess

...............Greed is an illness......

...........For mine, the illness is a direct result of a value system that promotes greed, selfishness and personal wealth over the common wealth, ie. Judeo-Christian values as they have evolved in Western society.................

I agree greed is an illness.

I can only speak for Christian values, but I find it hard to see where Christianity promotes greed or selfishness at the expense of others.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 5:39:39 AM

Owner59

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I`ll take a little farther.

The evil of MEN.

For the most part,like wayyyyy one sided,men are responsible for most of the world`s evil.

One really has to squint to think of woman who`ve done evil things.There are a few for sure.

But all in all,men commit most of the murders,rapes,assaults etc.

By far,what sex has our prisons filled to over capacity?

Don`t get me started on the men who`ve caused wars and mass suffering as leaders.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 6:01:49 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: theGuideGoddess

...............Greed is an illness......

...........For mine, the illness is a direct result of a value system that promotes greed, selfishness and personal wealth over the common wealth, ie. Judeo-Christian values as they have evolved in Western society.................

I agree greed is an illness.

I can only speak for Christian values, but I find it hard to see where Christianity promotes greed or selfishness at the expense of others.

I see your point. I did say "Judeo-Christian values as they have evolved in Western society" which are quite a different set of values to those laid down in the various religious texts and far removed from Judeo-Christian ideals. I hope this clarifies things for you.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/20/2011 6:10:02 AM >

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 6:03:48 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`ll take a little farther.

The evil of MEN.

For the most part,like wayyyyy one sided,men are responsible for most of the world`s evil.

One really has to squint to think of woman who`ve done evil things.There are a few for sure.

But all in all,men commit most of the murders,rapes,assaults etc.

By far,what sex has our prisons filled to over capacity?

Don`t get me started on the men who`ve caused wars and mass suffering as leaders.

How could anyone who's taken even a cursory look at the numbers possibly disagree? But lest we get accused of getting personal, can we agree to point the finger at the cult of masculinity rather than men in general (coz there are many wonderful men too) or men as individuals (ditto)?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/20/2011 6:06:04 AM >

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 7:46:42 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD Don't you wish we could be more understanding, more compassionate to one another?

Well... sometimes we are! Right?

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 7:52:18 AM

mnottertail

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPovKnX5JQE

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 2:43:29 PM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

I confess, I do not understand others and what motivates their greed and selfish behaviours, amongst other things.

When concerning otherwise healthy humans, when prIde rules; greed and deceit ensue.

Though, I think self-absorbed fits better than selfish.

Kim

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 3:50:04 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

...........For mine, the illness is a direct result of a value system that promotes greed, selfishness and personal wealth over the common wealth, ie. Judeo-Christian values as they have evolved in Western society.................

I can only speak for Christian values, but I find it hard to see where Christianity promotes greed or selfishness at the expense of others.

I see your point. I did say "Judeo-Christian values as they have evolved in Western society" which are quite a different set of values to those laid down in the various religious texts and far removed from Judeo-Christian ideals. I hope this clarifies things for you.

Christian values (to me, we're all giving our opinions here) have only evolved to broaden our compassion. I have no conflict accepting homosexuality within the framework of my Christian beliefs, for instance. That's the evolution in Christianity I see.

I disagree with your position still.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 3:54:06 PM

hlen5

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`ll take a little farther.

The evil of MEN.

For the most part,like wayyyyy one sided,men are responsible for most of the world`s evil.

One really has to squint to think of woman who`ve done evil things.There are a few for sure.

But all in all,men commit most of the murders,rapes,assaults etc.

By far,what sex has our prisons filled to over capacity?

Don`t get me started on the men who`ve caused wars and mass suffering as leaders.

Owner I disagree with this. There is evil in us ALL. Looking at Nazi rallies, there are women in the crowd waving hankies and "sich heiling (sp?)", too.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 8:24:19 PM

Edwynn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I`ll take a little farther.

The evil of MEN.

For the most part,like wayyyyy one sided,men are responsible for most of the world`s evil.

One really has to squint to think of woman who`ve done evil things.There are a few for sure.

But all in all,men commit most of the murders,rapes,assaults etc.

By far,what sex has our prisons filled to over capacity?

Don`t get me started on the men who`ve caused wars and mass suffering as leaders.

History is male dominated until just a couple of decades ago, but don't let the inherent lack of female opportunity for 'evil' inherent in that hold you back from such convenient albeit blatant statistical distortion thereby to make an ideological joust.

Here's the gender profile and other 'progressive bonafides' for Verizon:

http://www.verizonbusiness.com/Medium/about/news/pr-25756-en-Working+Mother+Magazine+Ranks+Verizon+Among+the+Best+Companies+for+Multicultural+Women.xml

"Overall, women make up more than 40 percent of Verizon’s U.S. workforce and more than 29 percent of senior management (vice president and above)."

My (female) cousin worked for Verizon for ~ 7+ years, after some small unit of GE credit she was working for was bought by them, before which she was initially hired by I-forget-who before that was bought by GE. She was a CPA and had acquired an MBA.

She was diagnosed with Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often referred to as Lou Gehrig's Disease, 4 years ago. The company was nice enough in accomodating her when she broke an ankle, and soon after that the other foot, just by walking down the hall, no conspicuous reason, before anybody knew what was going on.

Once the diagnosis had been made, the company turned quite unfriendly. They insisted upon this that and another verification, tried to tie her hiring date to the most recent acquisition or department transfer, and a host of other tactics in every effort to deny her both the basic disability benefits and more importantly full vestment in the retirement program she would be entitled to had she lived long enough, even though she needed what could be obtained from that to survive for her last 2 1/2 years.

Her elderly parents were still having to deal with this 4-5 months after their only child had died, until the bitch assholes at Verizon had finally figured out that she was dead now and the lawyers could tidy up the rest of it.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 8:39:01 PM

Owner59

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Omg,so we are say to just give woman the chance and they can be just as evil?I pray that`s not true.lol Annie-whoo...

The numbers are just to overwhelming.

Leadership aside,male dominated society aside,why are prisons filled mostly with men(black,poor men that is,but that`s another thread)?

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 8:46:05 PM

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You said it yourself, re the demographics of prison populations.

Just so you know (even though you obviously do not want to know), there were plenty of women congresspersons that voted for harsher criminal penalties quite obviously aimed at such demographic.

And thanks for blowing off r/l experience so easily in service to meaningless and actually harmful-to-society ideology, btw.

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 8:56:14 PM

Owner59

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Ummm...

Can you give us some examples of these congress-wimmins who voted for what again,"harsher criminal penalties",...aimed at who?

And what does that have to do with anything?

"And thanks for blowing off r/l experince so easily in service to meaningless and actually harmful-to-society ideology, btw."

Well,you`re quite welcome...

I did all that?

And can ideology be harmful-to-society and be meaningless too?

And what ideology am I servicing?

And what r/t experience am I blowing off?

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RE: The Evil of Man - 6/20/2011 9:09:24 PM

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It doesn't matter which ideology in particular that you are serving, that is your issue.

My point is that any ideology qua ideology at all is antithetical to progress, and as witnessed here, r/l experience or proper stastistical evaluation or any other heuristic or empirical treatment is seemingly anathema to pretty much any ideology I am aware of.

But go as far as you like with the 'mens is EBIL!' baton, there are certainly others to hand that off to when you get winded.

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