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RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/5/2011 4:38:30 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

As far as O'scumbag successfully waging war, he relied on information that came from W's administration and the use of waterboarding. 


Please supply a source for that patently false assertion


Try watching the news on your TV...if you have one.  It was all over the news that the information obtained was largely from KSM who had the shit waterboarded out of him when W was in office.  I know O'scumbag is your God but I have a news flash for you, all geo-political events do transpire outside the vacuum of  this asshole's presidency.


There were a bunch of Bush admin liars telling a lie. The real fact is that no useful intelligence came from waterboarding or any other torture. All info leading to OBL was acquired from non tortured individuals.

You know who says all that? The head of the CIA:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/exclusive-private-letter-from-cia-chief-undercuts-claim-torture-was-key-to-killing-bin-laden/2011/03/03/AFLFF04G_blog.html


Yeah...read post 26.  I have no interest in speaking to you about this.  You are a partisan liberal and if Leon Panetta told you at a dinner party, to your face, that the information came from enhanced interrogation you would say otherwise on the board the next day. 


Did you read the article? Leon Panetta wrote a letter to Senator McCain confirming that torture did not lead to anything related to OBL and that the individuals tortured lied about the couriers even after having been tortured.

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/5/2011 6:41:24 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		I told you already.....no I don`t want a blow job.....I was flattered before but now it`s getting creepy.

The answer is still NO!

Suck on someone else`s cock.



quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I was just speaking with a costumer of mine


You have one on call? What did you dress up as this weekend? Or are you in theater?

Aside from that, we actually agree for a change?






_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/5/2011 7:20:31 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: provfivetine

I don't really see much of a difference between the two parties when it comes to war. Obama is the biggest war-mongerer that the US has had in a while. Bush started wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama started wars in Pakistan, Yemen, and Libya, while continuing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The democrats love war-mongering just as much as the republicans. It's only when a republican is in office that the democrats get all riled up because it's not one of their guys "spreading democracy." It's not just the democratic politicians, it's the democratic fanboys/girls as well. This graph highlights that issue well. Notice, the change in democratic war protestors once Obama got elected.



Conversely, this whole democrat war thing is analogous to the republicans with deficits and debts. The republicans are only against massive deficits and debts when a democrat is in power. The two parties may disagree on trivial issues, like if income taxes on the rich should be 35% or 39.6%, but regarding big picture things they are basically the same.

Obama INHERITED 2 wars thank you. Obama a warmonger by stopping Qaddafi from a massacre of his people ? Pakistan, Yemen ? That's nothing but a cheap partisan reach and funny if it wasn't sad.

Reagan becomes a war blow hard with the USS NJ and gets a CIA station-chief murdered and 241 Marines blown up in their sleep ? That's a 'war monger.' Grenada and Panama ? W, with no business whatsoever going into Iraq ? None !!

BTW, it was Eisenhower that told Kennedy to save Vietnam for their oil and rubber. It was also JFK who sent over 18,000 'advisors' to Vietnam. How many of you really believe they were advisors.

War is a racket, a profit...there will ALWAYS be war. Notice in fact, if you are interested in facts...that we have less than 1/2 at war now than we did when Obama took over.

(in reply to provfivetine)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/5/2011 10:34:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: lockedaway

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

As far as O'scumbag successfully waging war, he relied on information that came from W's administration and the use of waterboarding. 


Please supply a source for that patently false assertion


Try watching the news on your TV...if you have one.  It was all over the news that the information obtained was largely from KSM who had the shit waterboarded out of him when W was in office.  I know O'scumbag is your God but I have a news flash for you, all geo-political events do transpire outside the vacuum of  this asshole's presidency.


There were a bunch of Bush admin liars telling a lie. The real fact is that no useful intelligence came from waterboarding or any other torture. All info leading to OBL was acquired from non tortured individuals.

You know who says all that? The head of the CIA:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/exclusive-private-letter-from-cia-chief-undercuts-claim-torture-was-key-to-killing-bin-laden/2011/03/03/AFLFF04G_blog.html


Yeah...read post 26.  I have no interest in speaking to you about this.  You are a partisan liberal and if Leon Panetta told you at a dinner party, to your face, that the information came from enhanced interrogation you would say otherwise on the board the next day. 


Did you read the article? Leon Panetta wrote a letter to Senator McCain confirming that torture did not lead to anything related to OBL and that the individuals tortured lied about the couriers even after having been tortured.


More lying spin from DK. Panettas letter did not say that it did not lead to anything related to OBL. He said there were multiple lines of inquiry over 10 years and downplayed the role of the information received from waterboarding. Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion. Given that Panetta is an Obama lackey, I'll put more weight on the others.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/5/2011 10:37:18 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion.


But they WEREN'T there....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 12:22:30 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

Afghanistan 1 (via proxy) -- Carter (D)


Boycotting the Olympics to protest the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan is 'war by proxy'?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to eihwaz)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 2:43:00 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

More lying spin from DK. Panettas letter did not say that it did not lead to anything related to OBL. He said there were multiple lines of inquiry over 10 years and downplayed the role of the information received from waterboarding. Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion. Given that Panetta is an Obama lackey, I'll put more weight on the others.

WhatPanetta actually wrote
quote:

Let me further point out that we first learned about the facilitator/courier’s nom de guerre from a detainee not in CIA custody in 2002. It is also important to note that some detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques attempted to provide false or misleading information about the facilitator/courier. These attempts to falsify the facilitator/courier’s role were alerting.

In the end, no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier’s full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means.

IOW torture did not lead to OBL. The guys we did torture continued to lie to us even after many rounds of torture.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 5:20:59 AM   
eihwaz


Posts: 367
Joined: 10/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz
Afghanistan 1 (via proxy) -- Carter (D)

Boycotting the Olympics to protest the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan is 'war by proxy'?


quote:

ORIGINAL "Soviet war in Afghanistan," Wikipedia
The Soviet War in Afghanistan was a nine-year conflict involving the Soviet Union, supporting the Marxist-Leninist government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan against the indigenous Afghan Mujahideen and foreign "Arab Afghan" volunteers.  The mujahideen found military and financial support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, Egypt, China and other nations.  The Afghan war became a proxy war in the broader context of the late Cold War.  [emphasis added]

Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to oppose the Soviets on 3 July 1979.


(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 5:46:19 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

Afghanistan 1 (via proxy) -- Carter (D)


Boycotting the Olympics to protest the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan is 'war by proxy'?


He started funding the resistance.

Didn`t you read at all during those years.

It was in the news.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 8:56:42 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

He started funding the resistance.


Okay, but in that case there are a whole lot of other conflicts that the US has been involved in that should be added to the list. Otherwise it is an outlier that should be removed.

quote:

Didn`t you read at all during those years.

No. I turned three later that month. I did not start reading until about four and a half.

quote:

It was in the news.



Nothing like a government for not being able to keep a secret.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 9:09:50 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion.


But they WEREN'T there....


They were there establishing the policy and getting daily reports of information received and the techniques used.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 9:12:25 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

More lying spin from DK. Panettas letter did not say that it did not lead to anything related to OBL. He said there were multiple lines of inquiry over 10 years and downplayed the role of the information received from waterboarding. Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion. Given that Panetta is an Obama lackey, I'll put more weight on the others.

WhatPanetta actually wrote
quote:

Let me further point out that we first learned about the facilitator/courier’s nom de guerre from a detainee not in CIA custody in 2002. It is also important to note that some detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques attempted to provide false or misleading information about the facilitator/courier. These attempts to falsify the facilitator/courier’s role were alerting.

In the end, no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier’s full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means.

IOW torture did not lead to OBL. The guys we did torture continued to lie to us even after many rounds of torture.




ROFL. You think people cant read and see that nothing youve posted here confirms your bullshit claim I responded to?

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 9:13:54 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


No. I turned three later that month. I did not start reading until about four and a half.





_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 9:30:48 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

More lying spin from DK. Panettas letter did not say that it did not lead to anything related to OBL. He said there were multiple lines of inquiry over 10 years and downplayed the role of the information received from waterboarding. Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion. Given that Panetta is an Obama lackey, I'll put more weight on the others.

WhatPanetta actually wrote
quote:

Let me further point out that we first learned about the facilitator/courier’s nom de guerre from a detainee not in CIA custody in 2002. It is also important to note that some detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques attempted to provide false or misleading information about the facilitator/courier. These attempts to falsify the facilitator/courier’s role were alerting.

In the end, no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier’s full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means.

IOW torture did not lead to OBL. The guys we did torture continued to lie to us even after many rounds of torture.




ROFL. You think people cant read and see that nothing youve posted here confirms your bullshit claim I responded to?

The bolded sections make clear torture did not lead to OBL. How many different ways does it need to be said?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 9:39:03 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

More lying spin from DK. Panettas letter did not say that it did not lead to anything related to OBL. He said there were multiple lines of inquiry over 10 years and downplayed the role of the information received from waterboarding. Big difference, and just his opinion. Others who were there at the time differ in that opinion. Given that Panetta is an Obama lackey, I'll put more weight on the others.

WhatPanetta actually wrote
quote:

Let me further point out that we first learned about the facilitator/courier’s nom de guerre from a detainee not in CIA custody in 2002. It is also important to note that some detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques attempted to provide false or misleading information about the facilitator/courier. These attempts to falsify the facilitator/courier’s role were alerting.

In the end, no detainee in CIA custody revealed the facilitator/courier’s full true name or specific whereabouts. This information was discovered through other intelligence means.

IOW torture did not lead to OBL. The guys we did torture continued to lie to us even after many rounds of torture.




ROFL. You think people cant read and see that nothing youve posted here confirms your bullshit claim I responded to?

The bolded sections make clear torture did not lead to OBL. How many different ways does it need to be said?


No, they don't. The first one says they learned his pseudonym in 2002 from someone else. It doesnt say what they did or didnt get get from KSM that would have corroborated it (a key to any intelligence gathering). The second one says they learned his actual name from other means. Of course if they didnt know the value of the courier from the earlier intelligence his real name wouldn't have meant shit.

Your claim was "torture did not lead to anything related to OBL". What youve posted from Panetta has done nothing to substantiate that. Don't drive today, you must be dizzy from spinning so hard.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 9:53:08 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		How do you respond to someone that makes up their own facts, and supports torture?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 10:11:01 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

No, they don't. The first one says they learned his pseudonym in 2002 from someone else. It doesnt say what they did or didnt get get from KSM that would have corroborated it (a key to any intelligence gathering). The second one says they learned his actual name from other means. Of course if they didnt know the value of the courier from the earlier intelligence his real name wouldn't have meant shit.

Your claim was "torture did not lead to anything related to OBL". What youve posted from Panetta has done nothing to substantiate that. Don't drive today, you must be dizzy from spinning so hard.

Torture didn't lead to the courier's nickname, real name or location. And KSM and the other tortured prisoners lied about his significance, which is only significant if they already knew the courier was important when they asked.

So nothing leading to OBL came from torture. How much clearer can it be.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 3:58:41 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I am in support of any president that wages war, successfully, in pursuit of a vital, national interest.


What are the u.s. vital national interests in iran,afghanistanand lybia?

(in reply to lockedaway)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 4:02:56 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I don't really see how Obama took a huge risk. It would have been a back page one parragraph with no follow up, if it had failed.


Is that what happened when carter sent the helocoptors into iran?

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: A not-stupid war. - 6/6/2011 6:26:23 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		No, how would it be the same?

It would be like all the other deaths in the past few years from over there, small paragraph on the back page.

It would have said "chopper went down, 4 dead, no comment on the cause".

And been no big deal.

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I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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