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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 9:17:12 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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Thank you for explaining...I agree...and.... referring to her as "little", as that she is a grown woman and  as "one", as a possession, definitely could indicate mental dynamics that are so firmly entrenched that I can totally see how it is easy to get off course...
 
I think this thread is a very good one for folks to bookmark because this happens A LOT there was even a story on HBO where the bdsmers had allowed bdsm to so fully take over their lives that they could not enjoy sex anymore....
 
So many people on these boards say that "if the collar comes off I/They are gone"....but I personally dont think you throw the baby out with the bath water....the relationship is what holds the dynamic together not the other way round.
 

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 5/14/2006 9:19:25 AM >


_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to MstrssPassion)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 9:23:16 AM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Zippy I am so sorry for your loss...
 
You say she has lost her focus on work and on her family....these are big things....she could not have lost them with out wanting to loose them, and now she wants to put that responsibility on you, which in all fairness you do own some of, but not all....but this is not about blame this is about healing....and to me the way she can facilitate healing the fastest is for her to take personal inventory and personal responsibility as to why she allowed and chose to discard these two very important aspects of her self identity.


I don't get this. You say in your post that it isn't about blame, but you're throwing blame around. Why? I don't understand how his wife lost her focus, but it isn't anyone's fault. It's disturbing, perhaps, that she allowed herself to get so focused on one thing, but it's equally disturbing that he focused so completely on the one aspect of their relationship.

These observations, however, are not cause for blame. Things happen. It's great that they're both taking the time to realign with the rest of their lives.

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 9:23:36 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
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I agree Mstrsspassion, they are great, and I personally love the term, but what I was saying is that I feel that after 7 years, of M/s I could see how it could be indicative of a mind set that could potentially create the effects that they are experiancing...ie her loosing her identity....


quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

I am confused too, I thought him calling her HIS little one, what you were referring too....can you explain?



Pet names are pet names & I would never be so pretentious as to suggest that a pet name someone uses for their loved one would be wrong... I refer to my submissive as my girl or as Becca, either one is proper for 'us'... many might argue that my using a capital for her name is wrong, to each their own. Capitals or lack thereof do not define a person.

In fact I think little one is rather cute... it is up to her as to what feeling it evokes. That is something Zippy & his little one will have to talk about.


_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to MstrssPassion)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 9:27:59 AM   
crouchingtigress


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From: Maui
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Pointing out that both people would heal faster by taking personal inventory and responsibility is not blame...Anytime anyone wants to make changes they have to look and see where they have made mistakes or they are doomed to repeat them...





quote:

ORIGINAL: KittenWithaTwist

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Zippy I am so sorry for your loss...
 
You say she has lost her focus on work and on her family....these are big things....she could not have lost them with out wanting to loose them, and now she wants to put that responsibility on you, which in all fairness you do own some of, but not all....but this is not about blame this is about healing....and to me the way she can facilitate healing the fastest is for her to take personal inventory and personal responsibility as to why she allowed and chose to discard these two very important aspects of her self identity.


I don't get this. You say in your post that it isn't about blame, but you're throwing blame around. Why? I don't understand how his wife lost her focus, but it isn't anyone's fault. It's disturbing, perhaps, that she allowed herself to get so focused on one thing, but it's equally disturbing that he focused so completely on the one aspect of their relationship.

These observations, however, are not cause for blame. Things happen. It's great that they're both taking the time to realign with the rest of their lives.


_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 10:00:57 AM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Zippy I am so sorry for your loss...
 
You say she has lost her focus on work and on her family....these are big things....she could not have lost them with out wanting to loose them, and now she wants to put that responsibility on you, which in all fairness you do own some of, but not all....but this is not about blame this is about healing....and to me the way she can facilitate healing the fastest is for her to take personal inventory and personal responsibility as to why she allowed and chose to discard these two very important aspects of her self identity.


I guess my point of view is exactly opposite to that posted above. I'm not sorry for you, you had a part in this that you need to admit too. Allowing her to lose focus on her job would be #1 bad top move. Having a job unless you plan on fully supporting them as a stay at home slave is an important part of most people's lives. Making sure that your girl is being responsible in attendance, performance & dress should be a priority. If you weren't being mindful of these things...shame on you.
#2 you present is being distanced from her family. I'm all for not liking the in-laws but one of the major red flags that we point out to newbies is anyone distancing you from friends and/ or family should be handled very carefully. Isolation is one of the first signs of abuse. Not saying that abuse is necessarily why she left but this sign in my mind doesn't exactly scream good guy, she shoulda stuck around.

If you're hoping to salvage your marriage I would find a kink aware therapist http://www.ncsfreedom.org/kap/

quote:

Seriously, she lost the ability to act or react to anything without seeking my advice, council, or permission in any way. While she still craves being submissive to me, she knows that she has to find herself again and try to be "whole." 


I think that this part is most disturbing to me, more likely because I really like whole people in my collar and not shells of the person that you collared. Losing herself to you completely to me is not something tht happened overnight. This level of co-dependence isn't healthy and as you're seeing leads to disaster. I would have thought that there would have been questions in your mind...possibly discussions with her before she just up and leaves. 99.99% of women aren't wired so that they just wake up one morning and decide to leave their husbands for "no reason" especially not for reasons that hadn't been discussed previously.

Sorry for the shotgun blast to the tush but this is my world and that's how I see it, your milage may vary.

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 12:39:51 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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To the OP...I would not take full blame upon your shoulders,if she did not communicate such to you then how would you know..as many a Dom has stated,...We cannot read minds........be well...Tempting

(in reply to theRose4U)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 3:13:19 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Master has me journal to him daily - an honest journal of my deepest thoughts and feelings.  This is how he keeps tabs on where my head is at all time.  The moment my mind is not where he thinks it should be, he makes adjustments to my direction.  Those times when he noticed I was not talking to my family as much, he ordered me to see them.  When he noticed my motivation at work was slacking, he ordered me to change such behavior.  When I was frustrated or falling behind in school, he pulled back on tasks for me and ordered me to finish homework assignments.

If I do my job, and report to him my thoughts and feelings, he can gauge where I am and tweak as needed.  I know without a doubt that I am safe in telling him what's going on with me, and I trust the adjustments he makes. 

I do not live with him, but serve him in all I do.  He keeps me quite busy, also.  If he does not hear from me as often as he is accustomed to, he will question it.  He is in absolute tune with my mind, to avoid the disaster shared in the OP.  He calls me his "early warning indicator."  He has shared with me he learned from his errors of not being so in tune in past relationships.

I do wish the best for this situation. 

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 9:33:18 PM   
theRose4U


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Borrowed from a different thread, this posted by The Hungry tiger
quote:

Another that is of (sopmewhat) my own making is the following: Warning signs of a potentially unsafe master .....

1)Extreme obsessiveness regarding the master resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2)Individual identity and master as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the slaves mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the master continues and deepens.

3)Whenever the master is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4)Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the master in personal behavior.

5)Dependency upon the master for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without masters involvement.

6)Hyperactivity centered on the masters agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7)A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8)Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the master.

9)Anything the master does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10)Former slaves are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

The reason I say somewhat of my making is that I took a list that was warning signs of being in a religious cult and just replaced the word "cult leader" with "master". 


This thread brings to mind #1, 2,5, 6 & 8 at absolute minimum.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/14/2006 11:22:07 PM   
petwolf22


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Can't the slave's personality and behavior tendencies contribute to these behaviors as well?  A master isn't fully to blame if the slave came into the relationship with severe codependency issues....the M/s relationship may have given her an outlet to fully realize these dependency needs which may have been latent before.

Not to say he doesn't share in the responsibility, but without knowing them both, it's hard to just blame one.

To the OP, i hope things work out. 

(in reply to theRose4U)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 12:41:51 AM   
MistressLove999


Posts: 201
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Daytona Beach, Florida
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TopZippy

Just recently I and my little one broke up. She was my wife/slave in a 24/7 releationship, but now she has moved out and our D/s relationship is ended/suspended.
She was dedicated to me to such an extreme that she lost focus on who she was as a person. In some ways, her complete devotion is exactly what I thought a slave should have for her Master. The fact is, however, that she focused on me so totally that she began to loose focus on her R/W obligations, such as her job and her family.
Seriously, she lost the ability to act or react to anything without seeking my advice, council, or permission in any way. While she still craves being submissive to me, she knows that she has to find herself again and try to be "whole."
Now, my perspective on this is that she had all the right "moves," but I failed to see that she was loosing her identity.
The question: Does her assertion that she needs to be away from me in order to find herself have any merit? I feel that it does, but my judgement is clouded as she was not only my slave, but my wife and life-partner as well.
This is a difficult time, in some ways, for me right now. Your advice is appreciated!




I am truly sorry for your split...........I hope for  both your sakes you are able to work this out and come to some sort of workable/livable terms.
It wont be easy to step back or to change things especially as she is your wife/slave/life partner/etc.
I was glad to see you take blame/fault too.
I think maybe the time away from you is good for her yes, she needs to be on her own abit, to think her thoughts and deal with what it is going thru her mind.
It truthfully may not even be as much as you think to do with you or the lifestyle, it could be menopause. Not knowing her age etc, and it hits women all at different ages,(sometimes we go whacky), please be patient with her, help her thru whatever it is, by letting her know your there for her.
I wish you BOTH well.

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Play nice & Be Well,

Mistress Love

(in reply to TopZippy)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 2:57:04 AM   
ExistentialSteel


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TopZippy, you could have led her out of it gently. That is the way it should be done. From what you said, you worked to make your wife/slave so slavelike, yet, now you want to take a break to help her, while saying in your profile that you want another submissive. So your way of "helping"  her over this major emotional problem she has is to leave her alone and find someone else to play with. Just maybe, you need to check your motives.

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For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to TopZippy)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 3:10:34 AM   
Quivver


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Oh Zippy I wasnt meaning to lay blame, I was only trying to see how some of that could go invisible.  ~as far as "nothing" for a reply, I agree it usually does hide something, yet actions always speak volumes~

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The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 3:38:17 AM   
agirl


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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TopZippy

Quivver, you are right is saying that the drift of focus went unnoticed by me. I believe I understand my fault in this situation. I should have seen it, but in all fairness, she hid it from me very well, and then dropped the bomb on me. I berate myself for missing what should have been obvious to an attentive Master. In this I learned a lesson: Just because a slave says that she is happy, does not mean that it is so. When the word "Nothing" is used, be sure to look futher. <grin> A Master must look beyond what is presented and see the core of his slave. In that, I admit failure. To my eyes, she appeared to me, a perfect, attentive slave. The main cause of failure is communication difficulties.


You haven't spoken a truer word in your post ....For a girl ( or whoever) to reply *nothing* in response to a question .....indicates that YOU noticed *something* was wrong, or not quite right. I wonder if you're saying that, as you had a*perfect , attentive slave*, you didn't probe further?

agirl

(in reply to TopZippy)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 3:50:00 AM   
feastie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

TopZippy, you could have led her out of it gently. That is the way it should be done. From what you said, you worked to make your wife/slave so slavelike, yet, now you want to take a break to help her, while saying in your profile that you want another submissive. So your way of "helping"  her over this major emotional problem she has is to leave her alone and find someone else to play with. Just maybe, you need to check your motives.


TopZippy, you didn't care for her well enough when you had her, and now that she's left you, you're already advertising for another submissive.  Do you not see anything wrong with this picture?

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 5:01:23 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
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From: Maui
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wow I have to say I am really surprised by the blame here on this topic. It is almost as though folks feel that once you become a slave you give up your personal responsibility.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to feastie)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 5:35:26 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

wow I have to say I am really surprised by the blame here on this topic. It is almost as though folks feel that once you become a slave you give up your personal responsibility.


I would say that blame isn't helpful in situations such as these but it does provoke questions.....and some of those might not be comfortable to answer.

Being a slave doesn't mean abdicating all personal responsibility but by the same token, many decisions, choices etc are not yours any longer and as he says himself, there were communication difficulties. Without that communication the blind is leading the blind and who is the Master?
In an M/s relationship that, in itself, is going to be a very big problem.

There are also things that to even a faintly sceptical mind provokes questions .... ie, After a matter of weeks apart from, and with a major problem with his wife/sub/slave and the relationship..his profile states that he is jollying along looking for *someone*.

Now either there's a lot missing from his post or his focus isn't quite as heavily on the relationship as he states.

Regards, agirl


(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 1:43:16 PM   
theRose4U


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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petwolf22
Can't the slave's personality and behavior tendencies contribute to these behaviors as well?  A master isn't fully to blame if the slave came into the relationship with severe codependency issues....the M/s relationship may have given her an outlet to fully realize these dependency needs which may have been latent before.


I can totally buy this point of view with one caveat. It's the masters responsibility, duty, JOB to make sure that even the imbalanced maintain some sense of normality and ability to function. If a top or master decides that independent function isn't what they desire and the slave agrees there should be some type of deprogramming, therapy, after care safety net put in place ahead of time. Thus the top acknowledges the risk that they are taking with the mind of the sub and in the event of eventual disaster there are financial resources available to the sub for mental assistance and/or departure.

(in reply to petwolf22)
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RE: Lost My Little One.... - 5/15/2006 4:08:31 PM   
dogobedience


Posts: 536
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Simply words of hope...focus on the good and repair the bad.

_____________________________

I start and/or reply to posts to further my abilities and share my experiences in this fantastic lifestyle.

I hope I am an intellectual instigator, making people think and or laugh and nothing more.

Tiger, proud owner of kali aka Tigerproperty

(in reply to TopZippy)
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Awww - 5/15/2006 5:57:04 PM   
Eir


Posts: 118
Joined: 10/7/2005
From: Iceland
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It must have been hard to loose her but on the other way by not being togeather you are in a way making her being herself again, isn't that some for of torture? ;)
I know for my behalf I used my relationship with my former dom as a shelter, I didn't have to think for myself and I could just ask him, but in time I understood for myself that I had to be responsible for what I am and who I am so a decicion was made and we broke up.

It's a shelter to have a Dom, he's/she's suppose to know what's right for you so in a way as submissives we use it in our adventage.

Now I am not making any sence am I :P

Anyways, I hope that everything will work out perfectly for you

(in reply to TopZippy)
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RE: Awww - 5/15/2006 8:18:00 PM   
Reflectivesoul


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Before I get much further into this I wanted to point out that a slave by definition has no say, so if she was lost and lost her way then you as the Dominant led her there.
 
As a Dominant it is their job to make sure they are ALWAYS mindful of their submissive/slaves mental status. I do not and never will put the blame on the one that walked away in this case, I am however glad that they found the strength to stand on their own two feet and say hey damnit this is wrong and I have to get out of here. Obsession is not healthy period, in any form. I also feel that taking a slave out of regular daily interactions with people is a gross injustice to their basic HUMAN rights. And I'm sorry but you cant just over look the fact that someone is becoming withdrawn and isnt functioning, you may not care to address it or are too self centered to care about why it is happening but to say you were clueless before the big walk out, is just passing the buck in my eyes.
 
Having spent years "watching" a mentally ill parent I know damn well what I am talking about too, and when you take on a commitment of running someone elses life you have to BE AWARE of them on much more than a physical level. You have to tune yourself so that when even the slightest thing seems funny you react, instinctively.
 
I'm not saying in any way that you dont love her, because you coming here and talking about it says she has a big impact on your life and I give you much kudos for that, but you need to take a step back and look in the mirror for a while and stop and think hard when it was that she first started withdrawing and why you chose to allow it and why you chose to not address it, or refused to pay attention to it. After that you need to honestly ask yourself if in the situation again would you over look it again and brush it off because you yourself were happy with her being around for nothing more than you, or if you are going to take the steps and pull her out of it, like you're supposed to. Dont make a rash choice either, and dont sit there doing the well I wouldnt let it happen again, because you already let it happen once...... Then and only then can you HONESTLY within yourself decide if this relationship is one you feel worth saving.
 
You also have to be prepared that she may say to hell with you, because in all honesty you let her get that far. Its hard to trust someone again EVER after that point.
 
Sorry I'm not one to sugar coat things much and I do have a big mouth and sometimes brash oppinions but thats just me and from watchin a multitude of people for years I've just come to a deeper understanding of most and I take the job of being Dominant very very very seriously. Taking on the responsibility of another persons life is a BIG one and not something that you can just brush aside because it tickles your fancy to do so because you're getting your way.
 
I also highly agree with the Poster that said seek out a D/s friendly therapist.
 
~RS~

(in reply to Eir)
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