RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (Full Version)

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ChatteParfaitt -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/16/2011 6:58:33 PM)

quote:

Does 'sub drop' actually exist?


Yes, it does. So does dom drop. You get those endorphins flying, you can crash. This isn't any mystical emotional BS, it's biology.




juliaoceania -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/16/2011 7:00:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

No, depression is depression.

Subdrop is something else.

Subdrop can feel a bit like depression but it does not last.




Sub drop is like PMS for most of us, it strikes quickly, leaves quickly, and it isn't a big deal while it lasts




myotherself -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/16/2011 9:21:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep



depression is a prolonged feeling of sadness that lasts longer than the brief blip of time that subdrop lasts. again, i think you're reading WAY too far into this -- or you're subconsiously airing your own issues by applying them to other people.



THIS.

If you want to project your own personal issues onto something a large number of people find perfectly normal, then please go ahead. Just don't include me in that.




ranja -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 2:34:40 AM)

'sub drop' is definitely not a term made up by a bunch of kinksters...
it is a real scientific fact
... same for 'sub space'...
it is a true place, much like heaven and middle earth


it is extremely specifically bdsemmy and totally 'sub' ... it is forbidden for any Dom to even have an opinion about the subject as they know absolutely nothing about it


me and my alter ego don't get on at all.






LadyPact -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 3:58:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I'm afraid the above is all too true in some cases...I think we would be sticking our heads in the sand if we refused to acknowledge the prevalence of mental illness in the lifestyle.

No sane person will eat shit…stick needles through their balls…sew up their cunts…allow blood to be draw from a whip…on and on.

No… many in the lifestyle have real problems even if they themselves don’t admit to them.

Myself I’m ok with my mental illnesses…or perhaps I should say my deviation from the norm…but I don’t fool myself into thinking I am normal.

Butch

I'd be very curious to hear how you are differentiating the determination of mental illness between someone who decides they want a Prince Albert piercing and someone who bottoms for a scene where they are going to receive a crown of thorns?  There's a big, huge, gaping canyon between YKINMK and deciding that folks are mentally ill because they happen to have kinks that are more extreme than yours.  Also, it's very important to remember just who's measuring stick that we're using here.  It wasn't all that long ago that we as humans had made a determination that homosexuality was a version of mental illness because the majority of people decided it was "sick".

In My opinion, it's an error any time that we attempt to believe we're any different than any other segment of the population.  We are not better or worse.  We're not more tolerant, more likely to be mentally ill, have a greater or lesser educational average, or any other thing that folks like to come to some conclusion that isn't roughly the same as the rest of the general populace.  We just happen to be on a communication venue, so we may be talking about various things more than people who don't do so.

Since we really *are* like any other segment of the population, that means we're going to also have folks who will manipulate others by playing the pity card for stuff like this.  We're going to have people who use and abuse the term for their personal benefit from other people.  (It's a small segment, but it exists.)  So, while sub drop is a legitimate phenomenon, it loses it's validity when people attempt to use it as an explanation of the human condition.

In short, as a human, people will still experience the vast range of emotions/sensations that they did before they ever had their first scene.  They will still get hungry, cold, tired, listless, sad, lonely, and alllllllll of the other things that other people do who don't label sub drop because they aren't a sub or decide to call all of these things 'drop' because they happen to be a sub or Dom.  Drop, in an of itself, is the brains readjustment to normal chemical flow after a period where the receptors were flooded with an over-abundance of those same chemicals.  That's it.




angelikaJ -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 6:33:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Maybe it is just guilt that comes back after the rush of indulgence…Perhaps I am wrong but I think a portion of submissives are physically punishing themselves for psychological personal grievances. Otherwise their participation in a scene and their reaction to it is a symptom of mental illness.

Butch


My serious suggestion to you is to go seek out a Kink Aware Therapist.
Your notions of metal illness and it's intersections with BDSM are clearly influencing how you see yourself.




ranja -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 7:03:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Also, it's very important to remember just who's measuring stick that we're using here. 


indeed and to prevent any confusion i think we should always use yours, that would be easiest no?




ranja -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 7:05:15 AM)

quote:

indeed and to prevent any confusion i think we should always use yours, that would be easiest no?


are you mad?




LillyBoPeep -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 7:59:13 AM)

angelikaJ that's actually some really good advice. 




kdsub -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 11:06:28 AM)

You seem to think I am judging...I'm not...but I can see mental illness as well as anyone else... if it does not fit your definition then we simply disagree. I'll ask you the same questions I have asked others... Do you see mental illness in any of the many kinks people here on CM participate in?.

My question is not meant to be directly tied to the OP's question but I see the possibility of mental illness including depression in some cases of sub-drop.

Any time someone brings up the possibility of some mental illness in this life style people get defensive...I think this is dangerous. Some of the things we do can injure, maim, or even kill … peoples lives are put into the hands of others both physically and mentally.

Almost all of this lifestyle is considered abnormal and outside the main stream culture and parts should be considered mental illness and in need of treatment.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 11:11:04 AM)

quote:

Your notions of metal illness and it's intersections with BDSM are clearly influencing how you see yourself.


Do you think people mentally ill are unaware of their problems? Do you know that it is estimated that one in every five people have a diagnosable mental illness in any year? Most are quite aware of their problem and live with it... so am I.

From what I see, hear, and read mental illness is more prevalent in this lifestyle then the general population...But of course it is just my opinion.

Butch




LadyPact -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 11:28:31 AM)

Good Morning, Butch.  (Still morning in My time zone, anyway.)

No, I don't see mental illness in activities.  Mental illness is among some folks who participate in them.  This goes directly back to My belief that we're no different than any other cross section of humans who happen to have a common interest. 

I've actually been trying very hard to avoid the word 'depression' during the course of this thread.  The reason for that is that I find too many people tend to want to use the term for the 'lows' that we all experience as a part of our range of emotions that are just a part of life with clinical depression.  Here's a good example.  I recently moved.  It isn't unusual for a person to feel sad over leaving friends behind, etc.  It's not long term or clinical.  It's situational.  Most people can look at their life and say they might feel sad about that part of it and accept it's just part of life on life's terms.

If we're going to look at activities to determine mental illness, basing it on the premise that *if* it can maim, injure, or kill that competency falls into question, you'd better lock up everybody who enjoys skydiving right now.  Also skiing, swimming, mountain bike riding, horse-riding, people who enjoy roller coasters, snowmobiling, and any other that involves risk. 




angelikaJ -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 11:48:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Your notions of metal illness and it's intersections with BDSM are clearly influencing how you see yourself.


Do you think people mentally ill are unaware of their problems? Do you know that it is estimated that one in every five people have a diagnosable mental illness in any year? Most are quite aware of their problem and live with it... so am I.

From what I see, hear, and read mental illness is more prevalent in this lifestyle then the general population...But of course it is just my opinion.

Butch


Butch,

As mentioned previously, I have been treated for clinical depression.
The psychiatrist who treated me had no concerns that that was tied into my interest in BDSM or vice-versa.
One is a mental illness; the other had no relevance whatsoever to her as long as I was in a healthy relationship.

You are the one who is connecting the 2 as it relates to you.

edit: clarity




LadyConstanze -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 11:48:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You seem to think I am judging...I'm not...but I can see mental illness as well as anyone else... if it does not fit your definition then we simply disagree. I'll ask you the same questions I have asked others... Do you see mental illness in any of the many kinks people here on CM participate in?.

My question is not meant to be directly tied to the OP's question but I see the possibility of mental illness including depression in some cases of sub-drop.

Any time someone brings up the possibility of some mental illness in this life style people get defensive...I think this is dangerous. Some of the things we do can injure, maim, or even kill … peoples lives are put into the hands of others both physically and mentally.

Almost all of this lifestyle is considered abnormal and outside the main stream culture and parts should be considered mental illness and in need of treatment.

Butch


You know you can blame almost everything on mental illness, and in case somebody has one by all means they should seek help, but in a lot of cases people don't try to do anything about it, they want the quick fix pill.

Sub drop is usually caused by endorphins, during play you release a lot of endorphins, then you come down, the body shows withdraw symptoms, bit the same as after sex, a lot of women tend to get sentimental after orgasms and even cry (I'd swear I must have had a sex change and nobody told me, I just want to go to sleep) - it's got nothing to do with mental illnesses unless you prescribe to the theory the Catholic Church had in medieval times that having a womb makes a woman prone to having hysterics, so the best thing to cure that is keep the womb full and her pregnant unless she dies in childbed, oh yeah, and it was also believed that by educating a woman and teaching her to read and write, one would mess with her fertility...





kdsub -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 12:00:18 PM)

But... you see I agree with you in some cases... In others it is a wonderful relaxing sensation...but in some I believe it is depression and guilt.

None of us are exactly the same or have the same strengths and weaknesses.

Don't you believe there is a possibility of a cause other than what you stated?

Butch




NuevaVida -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 12:01:43 PM)

Great replies, LadyPact, and I agree. None of us here really knows what drives people to do what they do, unless we know them on a more intimate level.

I've actually experienced one of the activities Butch listed, saying no one who does this can possibly be sane. It wasn't mental Illness which drove me to do it, but in all seriousness, the ramifications of the act did make me feel like my mind was cracking, as a result.

But it didn't, and here I am. Happy, sane, and at peace with myself.

I think people throw "mental illness" labels around when they are unable to see bigger possibilities. I don't mean that critically, but if someone really can't wrap their mind around something, sometimes their only conclusion is "mental illness."

I'm not bothered by it. If someone thinks I'm mentally ill then they don't question my goofiness quite as much [;)]




kdsub -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 12:03:44 PM)

No I am saying the two cannot be separated in all circumstances... ask your psychiatrist if all relationships in our lifestyle are healthy.

You see I am not excluding any possibility for good or bad… healthy or unhealthy…sane or mentally ill…you are.

Butch




LadyConstanze -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 12:09:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But... you see I agree with you in some cases... In others it is a wonderful relaxing sensation...but in some I believe it is depression and guilt.

None of us are exactly the same or have the same strengths and weaknesses.

Don't you believe there is a possibility of a cause other than what you stated?

Butch


I said usually, but you know, I don't know every sub, some women might cry after an orgasm not from being happy but they just realize that they had sex with a guy they didn't want to have sex with due to being horny, or they might realize that they love the guy but he doesn't love her back, or or or...

I don't really think that BDSM relationships are that much more unhealthy than "normal" or "conventional" relationships, some guys might feel guilty after they have come down from the high the endorphins have caused and all that. I always believed that the role of a good D type is not giving the sub everything he asks for while flying high. I have some sadistic tendencies and I often had to reign them in, especially when playing with a masochist, when they are having a high, they will beg you for more pain, despite the fact that it could damage them. It can be a temporary insanity caused by hormones and endorphins - just like people will take stupid risks when their sex drive takes over (Hugh Grant, Tiger Woods...)




ranja -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 12:14:53 PM)

aren't all humans rather mad?

i mean all this stupid shit we do

flying around in airoplanes, jumping out of airoplanes
eating things from MCDonalds
having boob jobs
walking around on stiletto heels
driving cars everywhere
going to war over.... what over exactly?
bingedrinking
painting our nails
spending time on weird sites contributing to boards

i mean how insane is all that indeed




kdsub -> RE: Does 'sub drop' actually exist? (6/17/2011 12:21:03 PM)

There is a difference between people who cut themselves...eat feces...hang themselves …on and on and people who just want a thrill. But even thrill seekers can pursue their desires to the point of being mentally ill.

Again…I am not condemning the lifestyle or the people in it but I will not deny mental illness as a possibility to explain some peoples actions.

I don’t understand why the hint of mental illness causes such a defensive reaction. It is a treatable or controllable condition that should be recognized and treated particularly in our live style.

Butch




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