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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh


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If people are melodramatic or attention seeking after play, then that is most likelythey are wrong, because they do not do things the way I do. There's nothing that says everyone can do what we do, or that everyone will react positively to it, or even just be made happy by it. Some people will be made miserable, some people will go through emotional hell. Of course, that is their choice, and the choice of their partners to tolerate this response. But I do not believe that this is a normal, healthy or expected part of s&m, and I certainly do not think it can be explained by 'sub drop'.

owned xxx

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

If people are melodramatic or attention seeking after play, then that is most likely because they are unsuited for s&m. There's nothing that says everyone can do what we do, or that everyone will react positively to it, or even just be made happy by it. Some people will be made miserable, some people will go through emotional hell. Of course, that is their choice, and the choice of their partners to tolerate this response. But I do not believe that this is a normal, healthy or expected part of s&m, and I certainly do not think it can be explained by 'sub drop'.

owned xxx

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
The post that triggered this one, was from a submissive who suffered the symptoms I described. Her Dom now did not want to play with her because he didn't want to have to go through this reaction everytime. She was insisting that it was her right to be played with, even though it would lead to days or weeks of melodrama. Everyone replying on that thread seemed to agree with her that he was a selfish, callous, inconsiderate bastard who needed to step up and give 'aftercare', no matter how long or how much energy this took. It seems so tiresome. If I was a Dom, I would want my play to make people happy and content, if it doesn't, then what is the point?

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To clarify, I do get a brief, immediate reaction after play - quite simply, I fall asleep for approx 20-45 minutes. And then I wake up, and feel great. Playing wears you out, and I have no issue with believing that this is responsible for the feelings of tiredness, wanting a blanket or to be snuggled, etc.. But if your play is leading to feelings of sadness, depression, loneliness the next day, or even after, that this can't be explained by a simple physical, biological, chemical reaction to play, and is more likely to be an emotional response to play, life circumstances or relationship issues you have with the person you are playing with.

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As regards BDSM and mental issues, I believe that psychiatry is based less on medical / physical symptoms and more on a judgmental consideration of what society considers 'normal'. Since these considerations are almost inevitably right wing and reactionary, so is much of what is considered mental illness. Many years ago, homosexuality, female desire, oral sex and the desire of black people not to be slaves were all 'mental illnesses' In a 100 years time we will consider much of what is considered mental illness now to be cruel oppressive nonsense. I therefore have *absolutely no interest* in what psychiatry might have to say about me or anyone else, I make up my own mind about people and myself.

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If people are melodramatic or attention seeking after play, then that is most likely because they are unsuited for s&m. There's nothing that says everyone can do what we do, or that everyone will react positively to it, or even just be made happy by it. Some people will be made miserable, some people will go through emotional hell. Of course, that is their choice, and the choice of their partners to tolerate this response. But I do not believe that this is a normal, healthy or expected part of s&m, and I certainly do not think it can be explained by 'sub drop'.

owned xxx

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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

If people are melodramatic or attention seeking after play, then that is most likely because they are unsuited for s&m. There's nothing that says everyone can do what we do, or that everyone will react positively to it, or even just be made happy by it. Some people will be made miserable, some people will go through emotional hell. Of course, that is their choice, and the choice of their partners to tolerate this response. But I do not believe that this is a normal, healthy or expected part of s&m, and I certainly do not think it can be explained by 'sub drop'.

owned xxx

I understand this is just your opinion, but it's a bit limited. Often times people (myself included) can only form opinions based on their scope of knowledge and experiences, without considering there may be circumstances out there they never would have considered.

Here's an example.  A lifetime ago (or so it seems), I was owned by a man who enjoyed seeing me emotionally suffer.  For reasons that are my own, I responded well to that...most of the time.  And then he pushed it too far.  I won't get into detail because I don't think it's relevant.  But he did something that I could not handle, and it had nothing to do with inflicting physical pain.  He did it, and then he left, and because it was our understanding (even though I didn't like it) that he would minimally contact me until I had come out the other side (dealt with my own aftercare), he stuck to his MO this particular time, as well.

Meanwhile, I could not wrap my mind around what had occurred, and it wasn't really something I could just call someone and talk to them about. So I tried to handle it myself, ill equipped to do so, and I went through such an emotional spiral that in the dark hours of the night around 2AM, I had a serious and sobbing debate with myself as to whether or not I should grab my handgun and do myself in.  Obviously I realized and decided that was not the solution, but yes, my drop was so bad I considered irrevocable damage to myself.

It took me about a week to recover, and only after he realized I wasn't handling this one, and pulled me out of it.

It wasn't the last time he did it.  But he handled it differently after that. It's not something I'll likely ever do again, as the Mister has promised me he'd never go there with me - he likes me thriving emotionally, not suffering. 

People are in whatever place in life they're in, and as such, they handle things however they handle them.  I can form opinions about what others do, but I must do so with the caveat that I have no idea what the personal circumstances are around their situation, and I could therefore be very wrong.  I do know that making the statement you did above would not be uttered by me, because "melodrama" comes from all sorts of different places, and such a blanket statement would be discounting where someone apparently needs to be at that particular time, and the lessons they need to take from it.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

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To clarify, I do get a brief, immediate reaction after play - quite simply, I fall asleep for approx 20-45 minutes. And then I wake up, and feel great. Playing wears you out, and I have no issue with believing that this is responsible for the feelings of tiredness, wanting a blanket or to be snuggled, etc.. But if your play is leading to feelings of sadness, depression, loneliness the next day, or even after, that this can't be explained by a simple physical, biological, chemical reaction to play, and is more likely to be an emotional response to play, life circumstances or relationship issues you have with the person you are playing with.

Actually, it can.  I'm a top and I can promise you that My space can last well into the next day if I'm buzzing high enough from the scene the night before.  I'm not alone in that, either.  I could take a look for some old threads  where it's been discussed on these boards.  It's rare for Me to drop immediately after a scene because I'm still flying.  The majority of the time, it will be the following day, late afternoon or early evening.

Okay, and I get what you're saying - but my question is - is that a biological, chemical reaction to the physical high caused by play? Or is it something else? And, to broaden the question - sub drop is commonly attributed to a) the endorphin rush caused by taking pain and b) the chemical drop off after that endorphin high. I appreciate that being a Dom/me carries its own peculiarly intense states during play, but since the Top does not experience a physical beating / associate endorphin rush / hormonal drop - to what should we attribute Top Drop?

owned xxx

(in reply to LadyPact)

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
Okay, and I get what you're saying - but my question is - is that a biological, chemical reaction to the physical high caused by play? Or is it something else? And, to broaden the question - sub drop is commonly attributed to a) the endorphin rush caused by taking pain and b) the chemical drop off after that endorphin high. I appreciate that being a Dom/me carries its own peculiarly intense states during play, but since the Top does not experience a physical beating / associate endorphin rush / hormonal drop - to what should we attribute Top Drop?

owned xxx

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ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh


snip

If people are melodramatic or attention seeking after play, then that is most likelythey are wrong, because they do not do things the way I do. There's nothing that says everyone can do what we do, or that everyone will react positively to it, or even just be made happy by it. Some people will be made miserable, some people will go through emotional hell. Of course, that is their choice, and the choice of their partners to tolerate this response. But I do not believe that this is a normal, healthy or expected part of s&m, and I certainly do not think it can be explained by 'sub drop'.

owned xxx

Fixed that for you.  You can thank me later.

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

All of that is fine but (and this is my main point) it is not 'sub drop'. Sub drop, as I have been repeatedly advised on this thread by many different people is a physical, biological, chemical reaction to the 'high' of endorphins caused by sadomasohistic play. In particular you state that your play 'had nothing to do with inflicting physical pain.' So it cannot therefore be a response to the physical stresses of taking pain. What you report sounds more like an emotional response caused by 'the way he handled it' and of course, if you were sat there wanting to end it all, then he most likely did handle it very badly. My argument is that wanting to end your life after a scene is not a 'normal, healthy or expected part of s&m' - i.e. it is not a physical response to the end of an endorphin high caused sadomasochistic activity.

owned xxx

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh
Okay, and I get what you're saying - but my question is - is that a biological, chemical reaction to the physical high caused by play? Or is it something else? And, to broaden the question - sub drop is commonly attributed to a) the endorphin rush caused by taking pain and b) the chemical drop off after that endorphin high. I appreciate that being a Dom/me carries its own peculiarly intense states during play, but since the Top does not experience a physical beating / associate endorphin rush / hormonal drop - to what should we attribute Top Drop?

owned xxx

There was a time that I would have attributed it to the same, exact bio-chemical response that is the explanation of the very same phenomenon that most often gets described as 'runner's high'.  It made complete sense to Me.  I figured, as an impact player, it had everything to do with the physical effort over a substantial period of time. 

That was, up until the time that I expanded My play interests a bit.  Needles, for example.  Very little effort on My part.  Great space as a result. 

As a sadist, causing pain to other people, flips My endorphin faucet to the 'on' position.  Why this is, I don't know.  I have no better explanation for it than I do for the times that I can (please note, I'm saying "can" not "always") orgasm from the pleasure that I get from hurting people.  I can also get the same result from control scenes.  Power drunk, if you will.  It is that kind of buzz for Me.

I have the same physical reactions to flying from the endorphin rush caused by play as you'll find with any other type.  I am *never* cold while in space.  My eyes dilate and even turn color.  (They do that from good sex, too.)  When I finish playing, but I'm still flying, I have terrible motor control.  I've been known not to be thirsty or hungry, even if the play itself lasted for hours.  (That one is not always, but only some of the time.) 

It's the eyes that will give it away if I'm still flying even after taking a nap.  My other half can tell immediately if I'm in what I call 'residual space'.  The play's been over for some time, but I'm still endorphin flooded.  My eyes won't be as bright, but they won't be normal just yet.  Might still not feel hunger, but it's important to make Me eat something if I don't want to drop.  My fluid intake will be considerably less.  Any other time, you have to pry the diet pepsi out of My hands.

A theory that I can't prove is that the reaction may have something to do with pheromones produced from the bottom going into space and picked up through My olfactory nerves.  Might have something to do with *why* some of us get so turned on by fear or pain being suffered by others.  Complete speculation on My part, but it is a possibility.

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ORIGINAL: OwnedFemaleFlesh

All of that is fine but (and this is my main point) it is not 'sub drop'. Sub drop, as I have been repeatedly advised on this thread by many different people is a physical, biological, chemical reaction to the 'high' of endorphins caused by sadomasohistic play.

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You can believe that if you want. It's really no biggy. I'm pretty aware of how I respond to various situations.  Sometimes the same endorphins are escalated by emotional stuff - not just limited to physical.  Since you weren't there, you can't really say what my endorphin level was at the time. 

But I'm totally ok if you want to call it something else.  While I do think it's a little silly to speak as the authority on something based on a paragraph or two over the internet, I suppose it's something we all do from time to time.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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You can believe that if you want. It's really no biggy. I'm pretty aware of how I respond to various situations.  Sometimes the same endorphins are escalated by emotional stuff - not just limited to physical.  Since you weren't there, you can't really say what my endorphin level was at the time. 

But I'm totally ok if you want to call it something else.  While I do think it's a little silly to speak as the authority on something based on a paragraph or two over the internet, I suppose it's something we all do from time to time.

Anyone that doesn't understand how emotions can impact their bodies has never been in a car accident where they weren't injured, but had the complete living bejeebus scared out of them. I felt like I had been through a prize fight after such an accident, it only took less than a minute for my entire brain to be completely overloaded with adrenaline to the point where I was completely unable to really function...

I think it took me about 5 days for my muscles to completely come back from that one.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP
It's funny how many different interpretations of OFF's offensive statements there are. Now I read it as her having hooked up with a sociopath who wouldn't throw her a line if she was drowning, and her being envious of all of us who are with caring people who do take the time and trouble to make sure their partners are okay. Next time, it might help if she found out if he was a decent human being before she committed.

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Just to clarify - my Owner has no need to spend days and weeks providing 'aftercare' because our play does not make me feel suicidal, paranoid, jealous or depressed or wanting to carry out self-harming behaviour